XY What new smaller details would you like to see? Things! Environment! Random events! Etc.
- Thread starter Ysmir
- Start date
RE: Your hopes for 6th generation?
I don't approve of baby Pokémon because they don't add anything. They "take away space" from totally new families which I want to see and they don't make competitively viable Pokémon unlike new evolutions, which I don't really like either (but I like them more than babies).
I don't approve of baby Pokémon because they don't add anything. They "take away space" from totally new families which I want to see and they don't make competitively viable Pokémon unlike new evolutions, which I don't really like either (but I like them more than babies).
RE: Your hopes for 6th generation?
but unless new families are mono-stage, their early stages "take away" that same space ?
and how are they taking it away? if gamefreak wanted to include a new family, they won't go "oh damn we cannot add this super awesome 3 stage pokemon because with the 7 babies the number of pokemon is too damn high", but simply include it. I mean when was the last time they cared about what the exact number is the national dex ends with after introducing a new generation or how many pokemon were added?
151-151
100-251
135-386
107-493
156-649
yeah.
They add the same thing the weaker members of all evolution families do: weak stages that evolve.
IMO even complaining that the guaranteed fire starters take away space for cool new regular 3-stage fire pokemon would be more reasonable.
Teal said:
but unless new families are mono-stage, their early stages "take away" that same space ?
and how are they taking it away? if gamefreak wanted to include a new family, they won't go "oh damn we cannot add this super awesome 3 stage pokemon because with the 7 babies the number of pokemon is too damn high", but simply include it. I mean when was the last time they cared about what the exact number is the national dex ends with after introducing a new generation or how many pokemon were added?
151-151
100-251
135-386
107-493
156-649
yeah.
They add the same thing the weaker members of all evolution families do: weak stages that evolve.
IMO even complaining that the guaranteed fire starters take away space for cool new regular 3-stage fire pokemon would be more reasonable.
RE: Your hopes for 6th generation?
^Not really... Fire pokémon are usually few (I don't even want to remember about DP)... Having a guaranteed fire pokémon from the beginning is always good as an option. Plus, most of them are good in-game at least...
But on-topic, I don't mind them doing baby pokémon, the only thing I don't like is that usually we can't obtain them in the wild and have to breed them. Like, until gen III, most of them had to be bred. Why breed to obtain a pokémon when it is weaker than the pokémon we already have? I prefer when they put the baby pokémon in the wild and we have to evolve them like other regular basic pokémon which is what they've been doing since Gen IV for most baby pokémon... In fact, I didn't like that in B2W2, some basic pokémon that were available in the wild in BW, can only be obtained through breeding, and they're not even baby pokémon...
^Not really... Fire pokémon are usually few (I don't even want to remember about DP)... Having a guaranteed fire pokémon from the beginning is always good as an option. Plus, most of them are good in-game at least...
But on-topic, I don't mind them doing baby pokémon, the only thing I don't like is that usually we can't obtain them in the wild and have to breed them. Like, until gen III, most of them had to be bred. Why breed to obtain a pokémon when it is weaker than the pokémon we already have? I prefer when they put the baby pokémon in the wild and we have to evolve them like other regular basic pokémon which is what they've been doing since Gen IV for most baby pokémon... In fact, I didn't like that in B2W2, some basic pokémon that were available in the wild in BW, can only be obtained through breeding, and they're not even baby pokémon...
RE: Your hopes for 6th generation?
If they add a baby Pokemon for the purpose of acquiring it early on in the "New" game AND it evolves within a decent amount of time or in a fairly reasonable way into the specific "old" 'mon- then I can handle a baby addition. Magby and Elekid were pointless/worthless to me all up until BW2 when they actually allowed me an early access for 2 of my old gen and 4th gen evo favorites. It took them 2 generations to do this with the babies, and if they keep it up, then I can accept them. Otherwise they are a total waste of space in the dex.
An example would be if they gave Heracross a pre evo this gen, and made it obtainable within 2 badges of the start of the game- I would absolutely have no problem with it. If they made it obtainable near the end of your quest, or even post dex, then its essentially a waste of space and creativity IMO. Like Teal said above, Id much rather see completely new Pokemon lines, or even EVOLUTIONS, that add something to an old Pokemon to make it BETTER, than something that gives it an additional starting point or just wastes precious new dex space.
If they add a baby Pokemon for the purpose of acquiring it early on in the "New" game AND it evolves within a decent amount of time or in a fairly reasonable way into the specific "old" 'mon- then I can handle a baby addition. Magby and Elekid were pointless/worthless to me all up until BW2 when they actually allowed me an early access for 2 of my old gen and 4th gen evo favorites. It took them 2 generations to do this with the babies, and if they keep it up, then I can accept them. Otherwise they are a total waste of space in the dex.
An example would be if they gave Heracross a pre evo this gen, and made it obtainable within 2 badges of the start of the game- I would absolutely have no problem with it. If they made it obtainable near the end of your quest, or even post dex, then its essentially a waste of space and creativity IMO. Like Teal said above, Id much rather see completely new Pokemon lines, or even EVOLUTIONS, that add something to an old Pokemon to make it BETTER, than something that gives it an additional starting point or just wastes precious new dex space.
RE: Your hopes for 6th generation?
Again, the only actual difference between regular low stages and baby pokemon is that the latter cannot breed.
So either you guys consider all not-fully-evolved pokemon a waste of space or none of them.
(If all you care about is competitive, then there is several hundreds of pokemon that are not baby but still pointless and waste of space in your view.)
Pichu:
-Volt Tackle
-Nasty Plot
Tyrogue:
-Fake Out
-Helping Hand
Wynaut:
-Encore
Budew:
-Extrasensory
Chingling:
-Recover
Mantyke:
-Signal Beam
Riolu:
-Copycat
-Endure
-Reversal
-Nasty Plot
-Final Gambit
the rest have some too but they're mostly Copycat and non-competitive moves.
Again, the only actual difference between regular low stages and baby pokemon is that the latter cannot breed.
So either you guys consider all not-fully-evolved pokemon a waste of space or none of them.
NoDice said:
(If all you care about is competitive, then there is several hundreds of pokemon that are not baby but still pointless and waste of space in your view.)
Pichu:
-Volt Tackle
-Nasty Plot
Tyrogue:
-Fake Out
-Helping Hand
Wynaut:
-Encore
Budew:
-Extrasensory
Chingling:
-Recover
Mantyke:
-Signal Beam
Riolu:
-Copycat
-Endure
-Reversal
-Nasty Plot
-Final Gambit
the rest have some too but they're mostly Copycat and non-competitive moves.
RE: Your hopes for 6th generation?
I'd love to be able to walk with my pokemon like in HGSS.
Berry pots, pokeball seals, continue the medal rally, and the video xtransceiver. (I just love the art in the xtransceiver and would want to call even more people.)
Also, more variety in the types of people/trainers you meet. It would be more realistic.
Being able to customize your character even a little bit would be awesome too.
I can't wait to use the fennex fox fire starter and sylveon
I'd love to be able to walk with my pokemon like in HGSS.
Berry pots, pokeball seals, continue the medal rally, and the video xtransceiver. (I just love the art in the xtransceiver and would want to call even more people.)
Also, more variety in the types of people/trainers you meet. It would be more realistic.
Being able to customize your character even a little bit would be awesome too.
I can't wait to use the fennex fox fire starter and sylveon
RE: Your hopes for 6th generation?
Alright, that is a decent list there. Riolu isnt a baby first of all. So theres one Pokemon that has more than two moves off the list.
Now, why add those baby Pokemon for those minute moves instead of just adding it to the base Pokemon's move pool?
Tyrogue did actually serve a purpose, ill admit, in that it linked together all 3 Hitmons.
I still would rather see evolutions that add moves, increased stats, and possibly a new strategy to a line, instead of babies that add 2 moves to a line, an additional means to an end, and has decreased stats compared to its basic stage.
Mitja said:
Alright, that is a decent list there. Riolu isnt a baby first of all. So theres one Pokemon that has more than two moves off the list.
Now, why add those baby Pokemon for those minute moves instead of just adding it to the base Pokemon's move pool?
Tyrogue did actually serve a purpose, ill admit, in that it linked together all 3 Hitmons.
I still would rather see evolutions that add moves, increased stats, and possibly a new strategy to a line, instead of babies that add 2 moves to a line, an additional means to an end, and has decreased stats compared to its basic stage.
RE: Your hopes for 6th generation?
How does it add worse stats, might I ask?
To say 'worse stats' implies that the addition of baby pokemon actually has an effect on the basic stage pokemon's stat is ridiculous. It makes no sense; both mathematically (since it's an independent event), and in terms of gaming logic.
How does it add worse stats, might I ask?
To say 'worse stats' implies that the addition of baby pokemon actually has an effect on the basic stage pokemon's stat is ridiculous. It makes no sense; both mathematically (since it's an independent event), and in terms of gaming logic.
RE: Your hopes for 6th generation?
It is the lowest stage of its family, it is able to evolve and, most important, it is not able to breed.
As long as a Pokemon meets this criteria it can be regarded as baby Pokemon. It doesn't have to be released in a later Gen than its evolution necessarily. (Another example is Togepi)
As for baby Pokemon in general:
Of course baby Pokemon are weak, because they are meant to be weak, nevertheless they can be an enrichment for the games if they are obtainable at the right time. As others said, it won't make sense at all if you can only obtain them post-game. The only motivation to breed them would be to complete the Pokedex or, in a few cases, to get access to a pre-evo-exclusive move that might be interesting for competitive gaming.
However baby Pokemon could be much more useful and would also be more used if obtainable in the first hours of gameplay (let's say before 3rd gym), like Riolu/Elekid/Magby were in BW2. You get the chance to obtain a weak Pokemon with interesting evolutions early, when the opponents are weak, too, but later on you are able to evolve it into a strong Pokemon that is useful even post-game. If the baby Pokemon even learned one or two useful moves their evos don't learn - all the better.
I'd also like to see this for possible new babys in XY:
Nobody would like to see Lapras, Skarmory or Absol on the 3rd route of the new region. They would truly be OP at that time, but if their weak baby pre-evos appear instead and you are only able to evolve them after the 6th gym or so (because their evolution trigger, thus held/trade item, evolution Rock or the like can only be found then), things would be balanced out.
Another example would be Sneasel and Gligar: Their baby pre-evos would be catchable on one of the first routes, they might evolve into Sneasel/Gligar at level 30 (somewhere between 3rd and 4th gym), but the Razor items could only be found after the 6th gym.
I guess this could be a way to make baby Pokemon more appealing in future.
Yes, Riolu is a baby Pokemon in all respects:NoDice said:
It is the lowest stage of its family, it is able to evolve and, most important, it is not able to breed.
As long as a Pokemon meets this criteria it can be regarded as baby Pokemon. It doesn't have to be released in a later Gen than its evolution necessarily. (Another example is Togepi)
As for baby Pokemon in general:
Of course baby Pokemon are weak, because they are meant to be weak, nevertheless they can be an enrichment for the games if they are obtainable at the right time. As others said, it won't make sense at all if you can only obtain them post-game. The only motivation to breed them would be to complete the Pokedex or, in a few cases, to get access to a pre-evo-exclusive move that might be interesting for competitive gaming.
However baby Pokemon could be much more useful and would also be more used if obtainable in the first hours of gameplay (let's say before 3rd gym), like Riolu/Elekid/Magby were in BW2. You get the chance to obtain a weak Pokemon with interesting evolutions early, when the opponents are weak, too, but later on you are able to evolve it into a strong Pokemon that is useful even post-game. If the baby Pokemon even learned one or two useful moves their evos don't learn - all the better.
I'd also like to see this for possible new babys in XY:
Nobody would like to see Lapras, Skarmory or Absol on the 3rd route of the new region. They would truly be OP at that time, but if their weak baby pre-evos appear instead and you are only able to evolve them after the 6th gym or so (because their evolution trigger, thus held/trade item, evolution Rock or the like can only be found then), things would be balanced out.
Another example would be Sneasel and Gligar: Their baby pre-evos would be catchable on one of the first routes, they might evolve into Sneasel/Gligar at level 30 (somewhere between 3rd and 4th gym), but the Razor items could only be found after the 6th gym.
I guess this could be a way to make baby Pokemon more appealing in future.
Re: Your hopes for 6th generation?
Normal as an E4 type? Gross. Fighting types are so abundant and I want my games to actually be difficult.
BW2 was difficult earlygame, but quickly fizzled to easiness when you had a chance to get Darmanitan by the 3rd gym.
BW I heard were games I could have beaten in my sleep, so I didn't even bother.
HGSS fell into the remake "tradition" of being about 2% of the difficulty of the original game. Disgusting way to honor by FAR the hardest games in the series.
Platinum. Had difficulty toward the point that you were solely focused on the Galactic plot, and nowhere else. Still liked it.
Diamond and Pearl were... a snoozefest. I barely remember playing them aside from WiFi battling.
FRLG: Remaykz haz too b ez rite gaiz?
RSE I am about to get flak for saying this: Easiest games in the series. Seriously, if I can beat it on release day with no guide or AR or FAQs, the games are too easy. That's why I don't want RSE remakes: 2% of these games' difficulty would make it equivalant to Kirby's Epic Yarn.
Crystal had a superior plot to GS, but was a bit easier. I don't mind, I loved it.
GS are my favorite generation because they actually have a challenge factor. Having a Flying Gym as your first gym? Screw the Grass types. Oh, and they have Mud Slap? Screw Fires and the Geodude you trained to beat them. I heard Totodile made this game much easier, and I wouldn't doubt it. Most of the most difficult gym leaders in the series are in this game, and I will say it again: I love GS.
RBY were where it started, obviously. Now, ignoring any nostalgia, these games were quite challenging. Blue was a jerk and popped out at random with Pokemon stronger than yours, better than yours. The Gym Leaders were kind of a cakewalk, but the Elite Four and Champion made up for it. Will, Bruno, Agatha, and Lance, as well as Blue were waiting the whole time for a good fight, and boy, were they difficult. Not a fan of Gen 1 generally, but that E4 and Champion.
My hopes for Gen 6? Unique Gym Puzzles, tougher Gym Leaders, tougher E4 and Champion, awesome legendaries, and a good plot. Sure, am I a dreamer? Yes. But dreams can come true.
Normal as an E4 type? Gross. Fighting types are so abundant and I want my games to actually be difficult.
BW2 was difficult earlygame, but quickly fizzled to easiness when you had a chance to get Darmanitan by the 3rd gym.
BW I heard were games I could have beaten in my sleep, so I didn't even bother.
HGSS fell into the remake "tradition" of being about 2% of the difficulty of the original game. Disgusting way to honor by FAR the hardest games in the series.
Platinum. Had difficulty toward the point that you were solely focused on the Galactic plot, and nowhere else. Still liked it.
Diamond and Pearl were... a snoozefest. I barely remember playing them aside from WiFi battling.
FRLG: Remaykz haz too b ez rite gaiz?
RSE I am about to get flak for saying this: Easiest games in the series. Seriously, if I can beat it on release day with no guide or AR or FAQs, the games are too easy. That's why I don't want RSE remakes: 2% of these games' difficulty would make it equivalant to Kirby's Epic Yarn.
Crystal had a superior plot to GS, but was a bit easier. I don't mind, I loved it.
GS are my favorite generation because they actually have a challenge factor. Having a Flying Gym as your first gym? Screw the Grass types. Oh, and they have Mud Slap? Screw Fires and the Geodude you trained to beat them. I heard Totodile made this game much easier, and I wouldn't doubt it. Most of the most difficult gym leaders in the series are in this game, and I will say it again: I love GS.
RBY were where it started, obviously. Now, ignoring any nostalgia, these games were quite challenging. Blue was a jerk and popped out at random with Pokemon stronger than yours, better than yours. The Gym Leaders were kind of a cakewalk, but the Elite Four and Champion made up for it. Will, Bruno, Agatha, and Lance, as well as Blue were waiting the whole time for a good fight, and boy, were they difficult. Not a fan of Gen 1 generally, but that E4 and Champion.
My hopes for Gen 6? Unique Gym Puzzles, tougher Gym Leaders, tougher E4 and Champion, awesome legendaries, and a good plot. Sure, am I a dreamer? Yes. But dreams can come true.
RE: Your hopes for 6th generation?
^At the end of the day the main story of any Pokemon videogame is as easy as you choose it to be. The games aren't exceedingly difficult anyhow and if you want to have an even easier job of it you will be able to catch and train a Pokemon that is superior to the type of each gym leader (Brock in Gen1 might be an exception when starting with Charmander) or you train your Pokemon on a higher level in order to wipe out any opponents.
The videogames aren't that popular because of their challenging main story. Someone who is into challenging games exclusively will probably play a different kind of games and if you like Pokemon and challenges as well, you would face the NPCs in Battle Frontier/Subway or RL opponents.
Nevertheless I'd like to see a higher difficulty level in Pokemon, too.
Having the opportunity to play in a Challenge Mode like in BW2 was a start, but it should be optional right from the beginning. In such a Challenge Mode I'd like to see NPCs with higher AI and the levels of ingame trainer's Pokemon should adapt to the level of your own Pokemon. Let's say the Pokemon of the trainers inside a gym are at the level of your highest Pokemon -3, the Pokemon of the gym leader are at the same level, with his/her signature Pokemon being +3, and the Pokemon of E4 could be +4, the stongest +6 or so.
That would make the game more interesting and challenging for advanced players and would force them to build up a balanced team.
^At the end of the day the main story of any Pokemon videogame is as easy as you choose it to be. The games aren't exceedingly difficult anyhow and if you want to have an even easier job of it you will be able to catch and train a Pokemon that is superior to the type of each gym leader (Brock in Gen1 might be an exception when starting with Charmander) or you train your Pokemon on a higher level in order to wipe out any opponents.
The videogames aren't that popular because of their challenging main story. Someone who is into challenging games exclusively will probably play a different kind of games and if you like Pokemon and challenges as well, you would face the NPCs in Battle Frontier/Subway or RL opponents.
Nevertheless I'd like to see a higher difficulty level in Pokemon, too.
Having the opportunity to play in a Challenge Mode like in BW2 was a start, but it should be optional right from the beginning. In such a Challenge Mode I'd like to see NPCs with higher AI and the levels of ingame trainer's Pokemon should adapt to the level of your own Pokemon. Let's say the Pokemon of the trainers inside a gym are at the level of your highest Pokemon -3, the Pokemon of the gym leader are at the same level, with his/her signature Pokemon being +3, and the Pokemon of E4 could be +4, the stongest +6 or so.
That would make the game more interesting and challenging for advanced players and would force them to build up a balanced team.
RE: Your hopes for 6th generation?
HMs don't need to go at all, what we really need is a way to use them without wasting a moveslot for the Pokemon's battle movesets. Several people have suggested having additional moveslots that would only be used for field moves, and that's probably the best solution here.
The only real reason to have baby Pokemon is for distribution, so you can have certain Pokemon earlier on in the game. Other than that, they don't really add much to the game since new moves could simply be added on to the first form. Maybe if the baby forms could take advantage of Eviolite, that could be some justification, but I'm not really an expert on competitive battling so I wouldn't really know which Pokemon would be ideal for that.
While I agree with your point for the most part, I would like to point out that Skarmory and Gligar have been obtainable fairly early in the game before (Skarmory after the 3rd gym in RSE, Gligar after the 2nd gym in Platinum), so I don't really think they need babies. Lapras is possible, although it's pretty much intended to be really rare and powerful so I don't see it happening. Absol and Sneasel could be viable, though.
Also, I can see two others that might be useful: Druddigon and Tauros/Miltank. A Druddigon baby would allow us access to a fairly early game Dragon type (like, maybe about 3rd-5th gym), which could help make Dragon types a bit more accessible in the game. As for Tauros/Miltank, a baby form connecting the two would be convenient for allowing Tauros access to Egg moves and its hidden ability.
MrSquarepants said:
HMs don't need to go at all, what we really need is a way to use them without wasting a moveslot for the Pokemon's battle movesets. Several people have suggested having additional moveslots that would only be used for field moves, and that's probably the best solution here.
Mitja said:
The only real reason to have baby Pokemon is for distribution, so you can have certain Pokemon earlier on in the game. Other than that, they don't really add much to the game since new moves could simply be added on to the first form. Maybe if the baby forms could take advantage of Eviolite, that could be some justification, but I'm not really an expert on competitive battling so I wouldn't really know which Pokemon would be ideal for that.
Fennex said:
While I agree with your point for the most part, I would like to point out that Skarmory and Gligar have been obtainable fairly early in the game before (Skarmory after the 3rd gym in RSE, Gligar after the 2nd gym in Platinum), so I don't really think they need babies. Lapras is possible, although it's pretty much intended to be really rare and powerful so I don't see it happening. Absol and Sneasel could be viable, though.
Also, I can see two others that might be useful: Druddigon and Tauros/Miltank. A Druddigon baby would allow us access to a fairly early game Dragon type (like, maybe about 3rd-5th gym), which could help make Dragon types a bit more accessible in the game. As for Tauros/Miltank, a baby form connecting the two would be convenient for allowing Tauros access to Egg moves and its hidden ability.