Future Metagame Speculation Thread
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RE: Future Metagame Speculation
I just don't support big basic "toolbox" decks. It reminds me of Tsubasa Nakamura's Crowned Tiger world championship deck from 2009. I would really hate to see the format move in the direction of SP-like play. All basic decks are boring and are especially lazy in this format. I like the idea of evolving pokemon leading to something good such as an ability or a strong attack. I feel that all these big basic decks being played shows a lack of creativity and unfortunately shows that people do want a format where it's just beat-down and whoever draws better wins.
Riskbreakers said:Jakeupp said:I get what he means, it just feels weird to call slapping down basics setting up
Well hey, that's more setup than you'll ever get from Blastpony anyway. Nothing weird about it.
I just don't support big basic "toolbox" decks. It reminds me of Tsubasa Nakamura's Crowned Tiger world championship deck from 2009. I would really hate to see the format move in the direction of SP-like play. All basic decks are boring and are especially lazy in this format. I like the idea of evolving pokemon leading to something good such as an ability or a strong attack. I feel that all these big basic decks being played shows a lack of creativity and unfortunately shows that people do want a format where it's just beat-down and whoever draws better wins.
RE: Future Metagame Speculation
Oh come on, Blastoise is miles more boring than Big Basics. Big basics at least makes you think on which EXs to use depending on your meta and matchup which doesn't give it one clear linear win condition path. Blastoise however is very linear. You just put down keldeo and burger king EX and that's your deck, that's your strategy. It does not change from matchup after matchup. Makes the deck completely boring beyond belief.
This format is already beat-down and whoever draws wins anyway. Even the Stage 2 decks show no skill to play. PKK and Blastoise are auto-pilot. DarkHydreigon is the least auto-pilot Stage 2 deck and it doesn't win much anymore due to the sheer speed the format has.
Basically in a nutshell. There is no such thing as a "control set-up" deck in Pokemon that can be competitive. Blastoise and PKK both belong to beatdown set-up and that is as boring as it gets. This format will never get interesting for the next year or two or three.
Jakeupp said:
Oh come on, Blastoise is miles more boring than Big Basics. Big basics at least makes you think on which EXs to use depending on your meta and matchup which doesn't give it one clear linear win condition path. Blastoise however is very linear. You just put down keldeo and burger king EX and that's your deck, that's your strategy. It does not change from matchup after matchup. Makes the deck completely boring beyond belief.
This format is already beat-down and whoever draws wins anyway. Even the Stage 2 decks show no skill to play. PKK and Blastoise are auto-pilot. DarkHydreigon is the least auto-pilot Stage 2 deck and it doesn't win much anymore due to the sheer speed the format has.
Basically in a nutshell. There is no such thing as a "control set-up" deck in Pokemon that can be competitive. Blastoise and PKK both belong to beatdown set-up and that is as boring as it gets. This format will never get interesting for the next year or two or three.
RE: Future Metagame Speculation
I agree with Riskbreakers for the most part. However I think Cradily will bring a lot of variety back to the game because it will let you speed play stage 2's. I could see a Cradily, Empoleon, Garchomp deck becoming quite powerful or maybe it's just my imagination...or more of my hope haha
I would love to see a gardevoir/gothitelle/mewtwo/cradily/leavanny deck just bring havoc haha
I agree with Riskbreakers for the most part. However I think Cradily will bring a lot of variety back to the game because it will let you speed play stage 2's. I could see a Cradily, Empoleon, Garchomp deck becoming quite powerful or maybe it's just my imagination...or more of my hope haha
I would love to see a gardevoir/gothitelle/mewtwo/cradily/leavanny deck just bring havoc haha
RE: Future Metagame Speculation
Think about how long and inconsistent Cradily's set up is. Assuming you hit the T1 Lileep and Energy and a T2 Cradily, 2nd Energy, and a Life Explosion, you STILL won't be even doing damage by turn 3. And that's assuming you literally have a perfect first two turns. That's pretty rough considering the speed of the current format (although some of the OP fast stuff might get rotated out). Even then, you'd probably rather just have a giant basic out attacking then one of the Stage 2's. The only real reason to use Cradily is to pull off some crazy combos with the ability Stage 2's (like Dusknoir), but I still don't think it's worth it considering the inconsistency and slow set up it has.
Disclaimer: We don't know the next format so I may be completely wrong. Based on the rotation and meta at that point, anything could be possible.
Think about how long and inconsistent Cradily's set up is. Assuming you hit the T1 Lileep and Energy and a T2 Cradily, 2nd Energy, and a Life Explosion, you STILL won't be even doing damage by turn 3. And that's assuming you literally have a perfect first two turns. That's pretty rough considering the speed of the current format (although some of the OP fast stuff might get rotated out). Even then, you'd probably rather just have a giant basic out attacking then one of the Stage 2's. The only real reason to use Cradily is to pull off some crazy combos with the ability Stage 2's (like Dusknoir), but I still don't think it's worth it considering the inconsistency and slow set up it has.
Disclaimer: We don't know the next format so I may be completely wrong. Based on the rotation and meta at that point, anything could be possible.
RE: Future Metagame Speculation
We can pass judgement on that fossil once the rotation is announced. Given what we know right now, Cradily is still a very slow deck that needs a lot of setup which is punished by most of the decks now.
We can pass judgement on that fossil once the rotation is announced. Given what we know right now, Cradily is still a very slow deck that needs a lot of setup which is punished by most of the decks now.
RE: Future Metagame Speculation
I want Cradilly to be good, but right now, I don't see it. MAYBE with Mew EX someone will make a cool deck, but it would require a lot of space and deck specific cards. It at least has potential.
It looks like Genesect and Virizion are going to big cards of the set. (Virizion protects you from lasers, that alone makes grass pokemon playable).
I also think Jirachi will be huge. The ability near broken.
For non EXes, I think Haxorus will be big. It keeps plasma pokemon in check and can hold it's own against other stuff with Dragon Axe. This might be one of the few stage 2s that will be worth the effort to bring out.
Another stage 2 I think might see play is Porygon Z. It's kind of like the Hydreigon of plasma pokemon. You can't move all your energy around, but it's one of the few things that lets you move special energy,
As for the trainers: Silver Bangle = Broken. Finally something to put EXes in check. Combined with Virbank/Lasers, you're doing 60 extra damage from trainers alone (and that's not counting the damage they take if they don't retreat).
I want Cradilly to be good, but right now, I don't see it. MAYBE with Mew EX someone will make a cool deck, but it would require a lot of space and deck specific cards. It at least has potential.
It looks like Genesect and Virizion are going to big cards of the set. (Virizion protects you from lasers, that alone makes grass pokemon playable).
I also think Jirachi will be huge. The ability near broken.
For non EXes, I think Haxorus will be big. It keeps plasma pokemon in check and can hold it's own against other stuff with Dragon Axe. This might be one of the few stage 2s that will be worth the effort to bring out.
Another stage 2 I think might see play is Porygon Z. It's kind of like the Hydreigon of plasma pokemon. You can't move all your energy around, but it's one of the few things that lets you move special energy,
As for the trainers: Silver Bangle = Broken. Finally something to put EXes in check. Combined with Virbank/Lasers, you're doing 60 extra damage from trainers alone (and that's not counting the damage they take if they don't retreat).
RE: Future Metagame Speculation
My opinions in bold. The meta might change specially with a rotation coming. I really don't see any interesting cards that can get into the meta other than Genesect and Virizion. Cradily will be a rogue which I don't really see the point on it. Porygon might be played in Plasma as a 1-0-1 if it doesn't take out consistency and/or space.
pokedan24 said:
My opinions in bold. The meta might change specially with a rotation coming. I really don't see any interesting cards that can get into the meta other than Genesect and Virizion. Cradily will be a rogue which I don't really see the point on it. Porygon might be played in Plasma as a 1-0-1 if it doesn't take out consistency and/or space.
RE: Future Metagame Speculation
I don't see Garbodor doing that well. It did pretty well the first week of States, but I don't think anyone really expected it. Now, most people are playing Big Basics which is essentially Garbodor minus the Stage 1 and some of the tools, making Garbodor useless against a top tier deck. Of course the format will definitely shift by then (this is two sets away). But Garbodor didn't stop Darkrai from playing Dark Claw or other tools entirely. I really like Silver Bangle; mainly because you can use Gold Breaker with HTL for 180! Bouffalant will be big when this card is released.
Flygon2071 said:
I don't see Garbodor doing that well. It did pretty well the first week of States, but I don't think anyone really expected it. Now, most people are playing Big Basics which is essentially Garbodor minus the Stage 1 and some of the tools, making Garbodor useless against a top tier deck. Of course the format will definitely shift by then (this is two sets away). But Garbodor didn't stop Darkrai from playing Dark Claw or other tools entirely. I really like Silver Bangle; mainly because you can use Gold Breaker with HTL for 180! Bouffalant will be big when this card is released.
RE: Future Metagame Speculation
I made some changes to my deck... Hope you guys find that it okay
Pokémon:
3 Deoxys EX
2 Thundurus EX
1 Lugia EX
2 Kyerum
1 Sigilyph / Mr mime/Latias EX
Trainers:
2 Plasma Ball
3 Ultra Ball
4 Colress Machine
4 Pokémon Catcher
3 Float Stone
2 Switch
2 Virbank City Gym
1 Scramble Switch
4 Hypnotoxic laser
1 Max Potion
Supporters:
4 Juniper
3 N
3 Colress/ 1 Ghetsis
2 Skyla
Energy:
2 DCE
4 Plasma Energy
4 Prism Energy
3 Blend Energy
I would like if you guys coukd guve me some feed back on it and help me out, so I can keep improving it
I made some changes to my deck... Hope you guys find that it okay
Pokémon:
3 Deoxys EX
2 Thundurus EX
1 Lugia EX
2 Kyerum
1 Sigilyph / Mr mime/Latias EX
Trainers:
2 Plasma Ball
3 Ultra Ball
4 Colress Machine
4 Pokémon Catcher
3 Float Stone
2 Switch
2 Virbank City Gym
1 Scramble Switch
4 Hypnotoxic laser
1 Max Potion
Supporters:
4 Juniper
3 N
3 Colress/ 1 Ghetsis
2 Skyla
Energy:
2 DCE
4 Plasma Energy
4 Prism Energy
3 Blend Energy
I would like if you guys coukd guve me some feed back on it and help me out, so I can keep improving it
RE: Future Metagame Speculation
Snorlax OHKO's Darkrais like there's no tomorrow once you hit full bench. And I would take out that Sigilyph for a 3rd Thundurus EX
Snorlax OHKO's Darkrais like there's no tomorrow once you hit full bench. And I would take out that Sigilyph for a 3rd Thundurus EX
RE: Future Metagame Speculation
Plus they can't retreat so you can Catcher stall Darkrai (which is a funny thought). They can Rush In with Keldeo, but then they have no way to retreat Keldeo. In fact, it makes T2 Darkrais very difficult. If they start Sableye, they can power up a benched Darkrai, but have no way to get it Active. If they start Darkrai, they can actually get a T2 Darkrai, but they can't Junk Hunt for resources.
Plus they can't retreat so you can Catcher stall Darkrai (which is a funny thought). They can Rush In with Keldeo, but then they have no way to retreat Keldeo. In fact, it makes T2 Darkrais very difficult. If they start Sableye, they can power up a benched Darkrai, but have no way to get it Active. If they start Darkrai, they can actually get a T2 Darkrai, but they can't Junk Hunt for resources.
RE: Future Metagame Speculation
The only way out is if your opponent is running Darkrai/Rope and not Darkrai/Keldeo
The only way out is if your opponent is running Darkrai/Rope and not Darkrai/Keldeo
RE: Future Metagame Speculation
That deck definitely kills Darkrai... I posted a SuperCounter to it though... go here:
http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/thread-nationals-worlds-format?page=5
And silver mirror is better.
That deck definitely kills Darkrai... I posted a SuperCounter to it though... go here:
http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/thread-nationals-worlds-format?page=5
And silver mirror is better.