Finished Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Town Wins

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Keeper of Night

Nobody Special
Member
RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 5 Ends August 26th

Actually, I'm very open to a dual lynch. And, since deadline is today, I'll go ahead and switch votes to bring us to 7/7 on votes... Hoping nobody else votes.

##VOTE: Kecleon-X
 

Kecleon-X

124c41+
Member
RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 5 Ends August 26th

Allow me to share my thoughts in bold.

Reinforce said:
Kecleon-X said:
Luis' role was made to nerf alex's, and from a gameplay perspective I can totally get why TheGuy did that.

WHAT.

Just...

Okay, this'll be a bit long but bear with me as I explain why I think this is WRONG.

I believe that Luis' role wasn't intended to "nerf" alex's. Or even that alex was intended to be "nerfed" at all. You guys (Kecleon-X and the others who are putting forth this theory) are trying to put one and two together to force a four --- you're trying to put an explanation and connection to two unrelated things.

First of all, Luis will only be "nerfing" alex if he targets him. If Luis has not been informed of alex's role, what are the chances of him targeting alex? 1/17 (number of players left)? Doesn't even crack 10%. What good is a "nerf" when it isn't even going to work half the time? If there had been an intent to nerf, it shouldn't be relying on extreme luck like this. You'd make it reliable or constant, because otherwise, it's almost as if you're not looking to nerf at all. Which may be what it really is.

It really would not be that difficult to figure out who the multivoter was, especially late game. And wouldn't you say the same thing about a priest, seeing as, especially early game, when they have no idea who the wolves are going to target? It's the same thing.

Second, this "nerfing alex by Luis" theory you guys have is highly dependent on one thing: Luis is alive. What if Luis died early? Then now you'll say that we don't have a way of nerfing alex. Are we automatically dead because of that? No, we aren't. That means the game is very much capable of running whether or not alex is "nerfed". Then that means alex doesn't need to be nerfed. It isn't so necessary as to require another role to not only exist but also to be alive for as long as alex. If Luis' role had been made with an intent to nerf alex, why do so when there's a risk that he'd been taken out early in the game and therefore wouldn't be able to fill that purpose if he's supposed to do it?

Um, you do know he can have six votes, right? That's massive. He can pick and choose who is to be lynched as he pleases, especially late game when there is only about six or seven people left. He doesn't need majority then, only the day to end. It needs to be nerfed, trust me.

Third, that conclusion and correlation only came about because Luis and alex's roles were revealed. If they hadn't, you can't deny that there's a possibility the game would go till the end and they wouldn't role reveal.

Uhhhhh, okay? I don't get your point here.

Fourth, you guys are trying to tie alex's "nerf"/being nerfed to the game's flow. As if it's part of the game, or it doesn't matter who dies/got lynched, this (alex's role reveal) will ALWAYS happen --- and so before the game our host created Luis' role to be a specific counter/"nerf" to alex. ... Why? Isn't Luis' role a typical Werewolf role? In any other game, it'd be nothing special. And yet in here, you claim it to be special... because it exists as a counter to a specific person's role...? If that's the case, then he shouldn't even be allowed to target other people, and just focus on alex. But that's not the case. Luis' role can and is intended to work on everyone in this game, not just alex.

Well, it was mentioned in the opening fluff. But no, typical Wolf roles have the subtract their votes by one, do they not? I could be mistaken. But, if this whole thing with there only being one wolf left is true, then I can personally attest to Luis' innocence in this matter.

What we should be saying here is that, if Luis happened to target alex, the results and benefits are more immense than, say, if he targeted a vanilla town.

If they didn't role reveal, then yes. But he wouldn't "happen to" target alex. He would have figured it out because votes would be getting massive and alex would be the common denominator.

But saying that TheGuy created Luis' role specifically for alex to be "nerfed" is unbelievable. If you have an intention for something, why would you make it extremely reliant on LUCK? And that there are so many factors that could derail it (e.g. Luis dying early)?

Well, role blockers are supposed to help nerf the wolf kill. They rely on luck, and they're derailed when they die, so how is this different?

So, let me provide a possible answer to your question in the very same post as the quote above:

Kecleon-X said:
But my question still stands. Why make a role to nerf someone else's role who is on the same side as the former? Seems rather... Counterproductive. Doesn't add up.

Because there is no intention to nerf alex. Or anyone else in particular. Luis' role was meant to target everybody and it does so. All Alignments have a chance of getting "nerfed" by Luis' role, so he wasn't made just for alex.

IMO, this theory's presentation that alex needs to be "nerfed" is to make him look suspicious, which isn't town-like behavior to me. And while I do agree that alex is suspect as of the latest happenings, should alex flip town, I am keeping a suspicious eye on you all who stood by this theory due to that.

I would disagree wholeheartedly with the fact that there is no intention to nerf him. There was even mention in the OP about Napoleon and how pivotal he was going to be.

As for your point that making someone seem guilty by tampering with evidence is scummy, I agree. Just look at my vote for Ice Espeon. But of course, there was no evidence to tamper with here. These are just two roles that have correlation with each other, or so I, and several others, believe.

Ice Espeon said:
Kecleon, the things I quoted from you were cut down so that it would not be too long for people to read, as well as focusing on the important information. The conversations you had with PMJ could have been pre-planned in your wolf discussion.

That very well may be, but as it became clear to me with Camoclone's post (among others) that you cut down to remove his new case against Luis, and how the post that supposedly made me scummy was posted after the fact, that really makes me suspicious of you.

As for this:

Kecleon-X said:
But, in any case, I think that alex is probably an independent character. I'm also kind of doubting Ice Espeon at the moment as well, considering the fact that his "case" against me is mostly misrepresentations of past information, of which I answered by bringing the actual facts to light. Now, considering that alex is mostly not a town-based role and is most likely an independent character, though probably not an Invader if his role wasn't edited, I would have to say that Luis is town due to my logic that I stated beforehand about it being counterproductive to have a counter to a role on the same side as the thing its supposed to counter. This also begs the question about why we have to have a counter to begin with. Now, as I am of the firm opinion that Luis is town due to my own means, ego, alex must not be town.

Now, with all this in mind, I would have to say that our primary suspects should be:

alex
Ice Espeon

And, for the moment, at least, think I should go ahead and

##FooF: alex

At least until Chaos Jackal gets here and clears all this up, hopefully.

If you think alex is town or indie (i.e. not aligned to negative faction), which you seem to think, then how can it be suspicious for me to post my honest thoughts about you being scum? If I was scum, then it would be far easier to jump on the Alex bandwagon than to try and produce a case against anyone else.

I am also open to Draclord's suggestion of a dual-lynch.

I never said I thought he was town in that post that you quoted. If anything, I think he's an Indy. But, either way, I do see your point. However I must state that jumping on the wagon would be a bad idea if you were a wolf considering the fact that you would just look like you were bandwagoning, which you would be. Kind of an invalid argument, if you ask me.

As for the dual lynch, I, naturally, am against mine being part of it. But I've always loved the idea of a dual lynch like that. But seeing as the day is going to end really soon, I think I should go ahead and post who and what I am, and what results I have been given:

TheGuy said:
Micheline Longo [Kecleon-X]
You’ve been dedicated to the revolution ever since your brother died fighting in the American Revolution. You just couldn’t stand the fact that the King could send people to fight for some other country. You’d do more to support it, but you’re a notable insomniac.

Ability: Insomnia
Each night you may PM me the name of a player, you will learn who that player targeted.

Win Condition: Town Wins

I targeted my brother night 0, and Luis night 2 and night 4. Night 3 I totally forgot to do anything, if I could do anything at all. Scorched's role messed me up. Even made me think I could post in the night. :s

My brother targeted PMJ with an ability (don't know which one) night 0

Luis targeted no one on both nights I watched him, including last night. This clears him as being the last wolf considering the fact that he, as the last remaining wolf, would have targeted Keeper. He did not. It also proves that he does not have an Indy killing role, considering the fact that two people attacked Keeper last night.

That's all I know from my ability.

But by the way... How do we know this is the last wolf, again? I mean, people have been saying it, but I haven't an idea why.
 

Jeremy1026

Aspiring Trainer
Member
RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 5 Ends August 26th

Kecleon-X said:
I targeted my brother night 0, and Luis night 2 and night 4. Night 3 I totally forgot to do anything, if I could do anything at all. Scorched's role messed me up. Even made me think I could post in the night. :s

Convient that you claim that you targeted Luis, after he said he hasn't used his ability since N0.
 

Kecleon-X

124c41+
Member
RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 5 Ends August 26th

And why wouldn't I? Would I just trust the guy I thought was a wolf to not toss his word out the window and continue targeting people, just to blame it upon another? Besides, it isn't like wolves only have one ability. I've been watching him like a hawk.

In fact, I have watched him so much, it has become... Hawkward, amiright? :p

*ahem*

But seriously. I've been watching him quite a bit. To confirm my role, my brother can go ahead and say whether or not he used his ability (whatever it may be, I'm not asking him to claim or anything) on PMJ that night. If he's lies and I get lynched, so does he that next day. It's a win-win scenario.
 

Porygon-X

There's No Place Like 127.0.0.1
Member
RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 5 Ends August 26th

Kecleon-X said:
To confirm my role, my brother can go ahead and say whether or not he used his ability (whatever it may be, I'm not asking him to claim or anything) on PMJ that night. If he's lies and I get lynched, so does he that next day. It's a win-win scenario.

I did in fact target PMJ with an ability night 0.
 

alex

Miss the game
Member
RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 5 Ends August 26th

Trackers are alignment-neutral so that doesn't really prove much.
 

Ice Espeon

_____________________________________hi
Member
RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 5 Ends August 26th

Kecleon-X said:
Ice Espeon said:
If you think alex is town or indie (i.e. not aligned to negative faction), which you seem to think, then how can it be suspicious for me to post my honest thoughts about you being scum? If I was scum, then it would be far easier to jump on the Alex bandwagon than to try and produce a case against anyone else.

I am also open to Draclord's suggestion of a dual-lynch.

I never said I thought he was town in that post that you quoted. If anything, I think he's an Indy. But, either way, I do see your point. However I must state that jumping on the wagon would be a bad idea if you were a wolf considering the fact that you would just look like you were bandwagoning, which you would be. Kind of an invalid argument, if you ask me.

Please can you read my posts (bolded)?
 

Kecleon-X

124c41+
Member
RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 5 Ends August 26th

You're right. They are. And it doesn't prove much, but what it does prove is that Luis is innocent. That's what counts. That's what I wanted to prove. Believe my role claim if you want, but if my logic is correct and Luis is innocent, you, sure as can be, aren't.

@Ice_Espeon: I, in fact, did read that. I was responding to the fact that you think I think he's town.
 

alex

Miss the game
Member
RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 5 Ends August 26th

Why do you have this preconceived notion that me and Luis are connected? Sure TheGuy maybe made Luis' ability "put to 0" instead of "give -1" with my role in mind, but reread Reinforce's post, he made a lot of great points that you pretty much ignored when you responded to him. And why does Luis need to be town? Considering how you think I'm Indie, don't all factions need to deal with me? It's not only the town. Even if you still believe that Luis and me are somehow connected, it does NOT mean that he is town EVEN if you believe that I'm Indie.
 

Kecleon-X

124c41+
Member
RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 5 Ends August 26th

alex said:
Why do you have this preconceived notion that me and Luis are connected? Sure TheGuy maybe made Luis' ability "put to 0" instead of "give -1" with my role in mind, but reread Reinforce's post, he made a lot of great points that you pretty much ignored when you responded to him. And why does Luis need to be town? Considering how you think I'm Indie, don't all factions need to deal with me? It's not only the town. Even if you still believe that Luis and me are somehow connected, it does NOT mean that he is town EVEN if you believe that I'm Indie.

No, you didn't read my past post. If he is the last wolf, and even though I don't know how we reached that conclusion, the fact of the matter is, if he targeted Keeper at all (and he would have to considering the fact that, should he be the last wolf, he would have the kill ability), I would know about it. That proves that he's town, should he be the last wolf.

I don't have a preconceived notion. I have a revelation. I made the realization that the two were connected recently, earlier this day, to be exact. This is due to how anti-town and (no offense) really useless Luis' role was when we found out about it day one, and when you claimed, everything became clear. If he was town (and he is, should there be only one wolf left), the only thing he would do is hurt the town seeing as votes are their primary weapon against the wolves unless there was a power role on the opposite side that would prompt such a role. It's simple logic.

As for your argument that I ignored Reinforce, I didn't. If I recall correctly I answered his points.
 

alex

Miss the game
Member
RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 5 Ends August 26th

I was talking about him being an Invader not a wd. And don't you think that, even though you've talked about this for so long only Jeremy (and he's doing anything to get me lynched) and maybe someone else I'm forgetting agrees with you, don't you think it might just not be true?
 

Professor Palutena

The Queen
Member
RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 5 Ends August 26th

##BURP: Kecleon-X

His claim bothers me. Like his results seem rather convenient to claim.

Though with just a few hours left, I'm really just voting for him because I think alex is less scummier than Kecleon and I don't see the point in bringing anyone else up with just hours to go.
 

Luispipe8

Pokémon Professor
Member
RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 5 Ends August 26th

You know you just kept them unbalanced, right? I mean, if you wanted a double-lynch then you didn't had to vote and just unvote Kec.(assuming both were balanced until Palutena voted).
 

TwistedTurtwig

It's been a pleasure
Member
RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 5 Ends August 26th

Here, I'll do that.

##UNGUILLOTINE: alex

I'm not sure how one would actually do that, but whatever. We're lynching some form of scum tonight, one way or another. And now I need my sleep.
 

Kecleon-X

124c41+
Member
RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 5 Ends August 26th

alex said:
I was talking about him being an Invader not a wd. And don't you think that, even though you've talked about this for so long only Jeremy (and he's doing anything to get me lynched) and maybe someone else I'm forgetting agrees with you, don't you think it might just not be true?

(If I recall correctly, he seemed rather skeptical at my innocence. But still.)

I feel like there were others, too, and many people haven't posted today, so among the unseen majority, I could have a following. *wags finger* But in the end, no. Other people don't influence my logic unless they bring up points that either prove or disprove it, so I have no reason to doubt my logic at this point in time.

If Luis is an Invader, he's certainly not the one with the kill ability. Otherwise he would have targeted KoN.
 

Keeper of Night

Nobody Special
Member
RE: Werewolf XXII: The Reign of Terror - Day 5 Ends August 26th

Luispipe8 said:
You know you just kept them unbalanced, right? I mean, if you wanted a double-lynch then you didn't had to vote and just unvote Kec.(assuming both were balanced until Palutena voted).

Oh, did I? I thought PP's vote unbalanced them. I'll go read again. >.<
 
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