Japan's XY9 Set: 'Rage of the Broken Sky,' New 'Battle Strengthening Sets'

Discussion in 'Pokémon Trading Card Game' started by Water Pokémon Master, Sep 7, 2015.

  1. Otaku The wise fool?


    If we are are compare and contrast two cards, then we need to look at the entire card, not just a single aspect. Many cards have have something good about them but fall short because the rest of the card lets down the best bits. Even two cards that are equally successful may not be used in the same way due to their inherent differences. More relevant than the attack though is the HP; Darkrai-EX is better at taking a hit unless we get into specifics (namely taking a blow from a Fighting-Type).

    Why is it not right?

    To get an idea of how a card will be used, one looks at similar cards from the past. Darkrai-EX has a similar Ability to Manaphy-EX while Shaymin-EX (ROS) has a similar size and status (a small Pokémon-EX on your Bench). Looking at how these pieces function on existing cards will not tell us exactly how a new card made up of such things (especially with other alterations) will function, but it certainly gives us an idea and is a solid starting point.

    The question is whether or not 120 HP is likely to survive being attacked, and unless you're facing one of the weaker control decks or have some other mitigating factor, the answer is "No 120 HP is not likely to survive being attacked." It would require a major shift not just in specific decks, but dominant tactics. I do recognize this is a possibility; I've been more focused on Expanded than Standard (if we are talking Expanded as well, then yes, Manaphy-EX will rarely fall outside of OHKO range if an opponent has even a half-decent field).

    Did I get bad translations for these cards, or are two different points kind of running together?

    Golduck BREAK
    does help make use of Manaphy-EX because it would allow a basic Water Energy to bounce from Pokémon to Pokémon, a familiar tactic used in other Energy transfer decks. As we are discussing an opponent promoting and taking out Manaphy-EX (or just taking it out on the Bench if Greninja BREAK proves worthwhile), that doesn't help; as stated I believe Manaphy-EX is quite likely to be taken out in a single shot, so it can't retreat after being KOed. :p

    Splash Energy is a Special Energy card, so only a few forms of Energy acceleration work with it; for example Golduck BREAK does not. Most of the time you'll have to burn a manual Energy attachment to apply it to a card; not a deal breaker, but relevant to considering it with Manaphy-EX. You'll need to prep Manaphy-EX with a Splash Energy ahead of time because again, more often than not it will be OHKOed if it is forced into the Active slot by your opponent. Now the question becomes "Will my opponent want me to take a chance and Bench it again?" The main defense Manaphy-EX has is that it might not be the best thing to focus on attacking. That's really it; if it proves to be a good target, an opponent forces it if able and takes the KO, and may even hope you drop another (or the same copy if reclaim it) so they can do it again. Also... Special Energy cards are the easier ones to discard.

    We already see something like this with Shaymin-EX (ROS). That doesn't mean Shaymin-EX is a bad card (it's quite strong!) or that this happens to Shaymin-EX "all the time", it just means that being forced up front (or a sniping target) for an easier KO is a legitimate concern for the card. Shaymin-EX tends to be used up as soon as you finish drawing with Setup, barring decks that really want to bounce it. Shaymin-EX is two fairly easy Prizes once it is up front but without some bounce its just taking up space on the Bench; Manaphy-EX has an Ability that works so long as Manaphy-EX remains in play, adding incentive to KO when it is useful, and when it isn't... it isn't serving a purpose.

    Significantly "problematic", not slightly, is my prediction. Again this does not anticipate a radical shift in the metagame. Such a shift does not automatically mean different attackers, just tactics involved: if current strategy that quickly hits hard enough for a OHKO is replaced by a different strategy that quickly hits for a OHKO, it still doesn't affect Manaphy-EX.

    It doesn't always make more room though. Changing something out with Switch is not the same as manually retreating, even for free. The reason why Darkrai-EX or a similar effect is combined with the likes of Keldeo-EX is because the combo allows you to replace your one permitted retreat for the turn with an effective Switch. It doesn't often save that much space when you consider everything involved; it just allows a similar amount of space to generate more advantage. Float Stone allows the equipped Keldeo-EX to pull the trick all on its own and it still is only a savings in space for decks that would otherwise have not only maxed out Switch or another similar card, but both.

    Manaphy-EX may replace all copies of Switch in a deck, but mostly because the deck was only running one or two Switch (or similar) cards in the first place and doesn't have the room for both Manaphy-EX and Switch.

    Not worried about them being excited, I am worried about them giving a card undue hype; the two don't have to be the same thing. Hyping something unworthy is quite normal, so not "weird" unfortunately... because even though it is a regular occurrence it is not a good thing.

    And... I largely agree with what you say here. I don't see them as being as large of positives, with the attack something that might have been okay on something larger that already had a reason for being in a deck. For example, a hypothetical new attacker that had a second attack that justified running it... well then 60 for [WW] and 30 mass heal is a nice secondary attack, even if it is situational.

  2. Pangoro#1999 Fear the bear


    I really like the art style on the eeveelutions.
    asdjklghty likes this.
  3. asdjklghty -------------


    Jolteon-- take that NM. Standard might not be so bad afterall.
  4. Maserati777 Aspiring Trainer


    Must have that Ninetales ex. Hope they put him in a future set.
  5. Mortal_Zachary I am... Durant-Man!


    Mewtwo Tins to be released Early 2016?
  6. Water Pokémon Master I like Pokemon more than you. :D
    Water Pokémon Master

    Webmaster News Head Activities Head Elite Member Advanced Member Member

    Empoleon_master likes this.
  7. crystal_pidgeot Bird Trainer *Vaporeon on PokeGym*


    This is different. Would like to see lock abilities go away though if they aren't going to give us options to deal with them effectively.
  8. bbninjas Ready or Not!

    Advanced Member Member

    Shoot me now.
  9. Clear Carousel of Agony


    hopefully, they give you Deluge Blastoise or something. lol
    but hey, garbodor is back.
  10. nepeta100 Aspiring Trainer


    welp bring on the hype and hate
  11. Rocket The Shellos Aspiring Trainer
    Rocket The Shellos



    also the attack isn't too bad. with dimension valley you only need [P][DCE] to poison and confuse + 60 damage
  12. infernape1245 Aspiring Deck-Building Master


    not this....again
  13. Chrswrites Aspiring Trainer


  14. shadows797 Aspiring Trainer


    noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!! R.I.P. my swampert and eevolutions decks
  15. Hexogen Merc W140


    seems like I have to quit this game now. Still waiting for a shiny Seismitoad EX reprint though…-.-
    MegaAbsol359 likes this.
  16. Ms Hugo Aspiring Trainer
    Ms Hugo


    Just terrible. Make new cards!

    Hopefully the upcoming format will make him a bit less effective, but still. This means we have a Garbodor for the next 3 years.
  17. Javi Blizz Spanish TCG Player
    Javi Blizz


    Why? I'm the first one that wanted a new usefull Garbodor, but why in this way? Instead of doing this, make a new one, make this one with another pokemon or reprint the one that already exist, so I could use my shiny Garbodor t.t
    MegaAbsol359 and smashandslash2 like this.
  18. Welp. Here's to hoping for a Trainer card with an "If your opponent plays Garbodor, he or she loses the match" effect.
  19. RealSlim Dragons Breeder


    Oh, no. That is terribly boring.

    EDIT: wait, is this a great shut down to Shaymins, isn't it?
  20. zorinjarkraiveltal Shadow Trainer


    The art is kinda trippy... but I guess it is pretty much acid

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