(1) X/Y Gameplay and X/Y Anime Preview on ‘Pokemon Smash’ [7/20]

[Drokas]

Because some people dislike its design and possibly because it was the third Fire/Fighting starter we got in a row.
I don't hate any Pokémon but Emboar is one of my least favorites from the starters.

it a badass fire pig, whats not to like.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Now let's stop getting off-topic. xD

 

[garbodorable]

Oh man. Dat Sigilyph. Dat Geomancy. Awesome.

And one huge guffaw at "oh noes, the sand tileset is repeating too much! UNACCEPTABLE IN 3D!!!" Dude, you do realize that the environments have been three-dimensional rather than sprite-based since Sinnoh, right? Sure, we'll actually SEE them in 3D now because of the system it's on, but if it didn't bug anyone in the last two generations, it's not worth grousing about now.

It is worth grousing about if the X/Y overworld looks identical to or worse than Gen IV and V's overworld. Which it does, with that sand tile. Ground tiles in previous gens actually blended into each other; in this trailer you're walking on a bunch of squares. I'm not fretting it too much because it looks so bad it has to be a placeholder, but if it isn't, and Gamefreak thinks it looks good, that will be disappointing.

And it looks bad not just because the environment is 3D, but the character, you are as well. Interaction between 3D model and 3D environment will almost entirely determine how good it looks, and 3D models walking on kitchen tile terrain doesn't look good.

The trailers and game play were fantastic! And I totally agree with you about the sand. Seriously, Pokemon has been tile based- 3D or not, since inception, and I honestly dont believe thats going to change anytime soon.... on handhelds at least(since 3D adventures did not have a true free roam and finding/capturing mechanic).

The tile based system allows for them to program the game to react with certain elements, such as shaking grass, dust clouds or the old Radar bush shaking. Also, with water, allows them to program certain things like Feebas tiles and fishing spots.

None of this is accurate. How do you think 3D games allow characters to interact with objects in their environment? That's been happening since 1996! And a lot of those games still use a tile system to map objects and collision detection. That doesn't mean the player character has to be rigged on an 8-direction grid. You don't need that to know which tile they're standing on, you don't need that to count steps, you don't need it for anything. All it does is make your character seem like a weird robot.

Making a 3D game is an ambitious move. You can't just slap 3D models on a 2D gameplan and expect it to look decent. You can get away with 4-direction movement with a sprite that has a 4-point turnaround, it's simple and makes sense. But 3D models leave little to the imagination; they're solid-looking objects like us, with 360-point turnarounds, and we expect them to move in natural ways.

Pokemon at its core is a traveling game. It's a game about adventures. If moving through its environments doesn't feel right, that's a problem. I'm disappointed that GF thinks it's important to make communicator holo-projections of its doofy NPCs, but can't even render water after 17 years.

 

[Leaf_Ranger]

Regarding gameplay, one the things that bugged me was the minor detail that when catching a Pokémon, the Pkball didn't touch the target, instead stoping right at its front and then opening.
Also, why the heck does a battle on a beach scenario has "aqua rings" as areas for Pokémon!? The trainer is on land, but the battle might be all on the beach, all on the sea, or the trainer's Pokémon staying on the beach while the hooked one will be on sea. They could create one scenario based on one of this options instead of a beach with puddles.

About the anime video, there was something strange with the staters. First because the background was very detailed and kind of shadowy while the starters were more vivid. Second, I was hoping to see the starters with a little brighter colors, they seem darker when compared to the game's artwork.
Btw, Ash screaming when leaving the plane....Somewhere in Unova, a chill runs through the spine. Iris looks into the sky and says: "You're such a kid!" XD

The reason they were on water rings is because he was standing in a puddle. When he battled Inkay they were on grass rings because he was standing in grass. Anyway I agree about thee anime. Fennekin looked horrible.
[/quote]

You're right about the grass, my bad. But about the water rings, the guy isn't in a puddle but in less shallow water so I think they should've made a cenario half sand/half water or half light water/half shallow water...but I do realise that this might be asking too much and taking little details into more account than needed.

---

It is worth grousing about if the X/Y overworld looks identical to or worse than Gen IV and V's overworld. Which it does, with that sand tile. Ground tiles in previous gens actually blended into each other; in this trailer you're walking on a bunch of squares. I'm not fretting it too much because it looks so bad it has to be a placeholder, but if it isn't, and Gamefreak thinks it looks good, that will be disappointing.

And it looks bad not just because the environment is 3D, but the character, you are as well. Interaction between 3D model and 3D environment will almost entirely determine how good it looks, and 3D models walking on kitchen tile terrain doesn't look good.

None of this is accurate. How do you think 3D games allow characters to interact with objects in their environment? That's been happening since 1996! And a lot of those games still use a tile system to map objects and collision detection. That doesn't mean the player character has to be rigged on an 8-direction grid. You don't need that to know which tile they're standing on, you don't need that to count steps, you don't need it for anything. All it does is make your character seem like a weird robot.

Making a 3D game is an ambitious move. You can't just slap 3D models on a 2D gameplan and expect it to look decent. You can get away with 4-direction movement with a sprite that has a 4-point turnaround, it's simple and makes sense. But 3D models leave little to the imagination; they're solid-looking objects like us, with 360-point turnarounds, and we expect them to move in natural ways.

Pokemon at its core is a traveling game. It's a game about adventures. If moving through its environments doesn't feel right, that's a problem. I'm disappointed that GF thinks it's important to make communicator holo-projections of its doofy NPCs, but can't even render water after 17 years.

I don't know how much blame can we put on GameFreak's shoulders. The guys have been making games whose evolution, I think, in terms of gameplay (when it comes to moving the character, mapping the world...) wasn't that much. Although I think that the landing after surfing is rushed and goofy and that the sand tiles don't blend, there are always going to be errors. Perhaps the jump into 3D was simply too much.
Just look at Kalos' "cities": they are not ambitious in terms of size or height and that might be because of 3D and because GF couldn't make or even think to take, for example, a city of the size of Goldenrod and put it in 3D. I know there's Lumiose City but even this one has mostly small buildings. Looking at the Kalos' map artwork, I would guess that most places are towns rather than cities.

 

[CaseyVGCx]

Honestly this game is not revolutionary in worldwide RPG standards. I applaud them for revolutionizing the series. Why does everyone give them sh*t for making their first full 3D game. Don't you remember that gap when 3D games weren't good or felt weird; or you're to young to remember that. This is probably it or not as bad as the games at that time.

I'm sorry but since everyone is expecting a PC MMO with Ultra Graphics better than BF4. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

Sent from my HTC One

 

[Fee]

I don't know how much blame can we put on GameFreak's shoulders. The guys have been making games whose evolution, I think, in terms of gameplay (when it comes to moving the character, mapping the world...) wasn't that much. Although I think that the landing after surfing is rushed and goofy and that the sand tiles don't blend, there are always going to be errors. Perhaps the jump into 3D was simply too much.
Just look at Kalos' "cities": they are not ambitious in terms of size or height and that might be because of 3D and because GF couldn't make or even think to take, for example, a city of the size of Goldenrod and put it in 3D. I know there's Lumiose City but even this one has mostly small buildings. Looking at the Kalos' map artwork, I would guess that most places are towns rather than cities.

All of the blame can be put on their shoulders they're the ones making the game. Even more so because part of the reason they don't move forward is terrible excuses like "forming a bond between Pokémon". Why can't they get rid of HM's? "They help form a bond between trainer and Pokémon" Why can't we make more than one file? "We feel that if you could make a separate adventure you wouldn't be as attached to the Pokémon and people you met on the first adventure." I love their games but I freaking hate their philosophy(to be fair I don't have actual interviews backing those quotes up). They could have added a lot of new features a long time ago but they choose to go slowly and stick to their old ways. Anyway all the buildings in Lumiose seem to be towering pretty high. Maybe it's not New York scale but they're still pretty big/tall not that that has anything to do with it.

Honestly this game is not revolutionary in worldwide RPG standards. I applaud them for revolutionizing the series. Why does everyone give them sh*t for making their first full 3D game. Don't you remember that gap when 3D games weren't good or felt weird; or you're to young to remember that. This is probably it or not as bad as the games at that time.

I'm sorry but since everyone is expecting a PC MMO with Ultra Graphics better than BF4. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

Sent from my HTC One

Yeah the first 3D Zelda is hailed by many as the best game of all time and the first 3D Mario is still considered a great game as well. Furthermore that was like 15 years ago? Gamefreak could have been learning from all the 3D games that have come out since then.

@Bolded part: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man Garbodorable said they want it to look as good as Animal Crossing, a 3DS game, or at least Super Mario 64, a Nintendo 64 game. None of the improvements mentioned by anyone here require anything close to PC level graphics.

 

[Frezgle]

Weighing in on the current topic of "the overworld still looks square and ugly"; I was thinking today it is a little odd that everything still seems to be very flat and squared-off, when plenty of other tile-based games find ways around that. Actually, we even had Pokemon Colo/XD, which were in full 3D with round edges on stuff that should have round edges. If that game was tile-based, I couldn't tell. So what's the deal here?

Then I thought, well, it may just be a stylistic choice. To Gamefreak, keeping the same basic look and feel of the environments may be important. When you see screenshots of an X/Y route, it may not be impressive compared to other games of this generation, but it does immediately scream 'Pokemon'. With Colo/XD on the other hand, I wouldn't be able to tell you from their environments that they're Pokemon games if I hadn't played them and there weren't PokeBall symbols slapped on everything.

Maybe keeping the same look helps keep its primary audience (children) because they prefer familiarity, or maybe they're just scared to make drastic changes with their most successful franchise. Who knows! It might even turn out that this isn't what the final version of the game will look like. But either way, I don't think it's just a case of laziness or anything like that.

 

[CaseyVGCx]

Don't get me wrong, I like graphics as much as the next guy. I have a 1200 dollar custom gaming laptop (Not alienware) and play out on max out settings. Physx in borderlands 2 is amazing with the little details.

I want the graphics in this game to be the best possible, but it's not going to be in the game. I see this is the 3D shift phase for gamefreak, where it's not there fully yet. The third game I expect the best

Also, Peoples expectation are very high for this game, but some times the criticism I hear from the game are so stupid I ignore them. No offense to anyone here.

Sent from my HTC One

 

[The Pikachu Mafia]

Maybe we'll get lucky and in the first movie yveltal erases him with death wing (I refuse to call it that other, not so badass name).
The rest of the season would be about pikachu coping with the loss and it's newfound alcoholism.

Am I the only one here who still loves the anime and Ash?

Well the thing is Ash has been trolling us with his immortality and little kiddish tactics for 15 years or so, it got old after Johto, really old.

 

[ECHOxLegend]

Am I the only one here who still loves the anime and Ash?

Well the thing is Ash has been trolling us with his immortality and little kiddish tactics for 15 years or so, it got old after Johto, really old.

never bothered me, a ton of cartoons never get old or really learn anything, its all for entertainment.

 

[professorlight]

Well the thing is Ash has been trolling us with his immortality and little kiddish tactics for 15 years or so, it got old after Johto, really old.

never bothered me, a ton of cartoons never get old or really learn anything, its all for entertainment.

But in a series that is all about personal growth and maturity, a journey to BE THE BEST (which can't happen if you never. learn. anything. at. all) that is the definition of trolling.
Entertainment is not an excuse for stupidity. Just look at the call of duty series and compare it to spec ops: the line.

 

[signofzeta]

I never heard of any serious cartoon that lasted over 10 seasons and have the same main character.

 

[Frezgle]

I never heard of any serious cartoon that lasted over 10 seasons and have the same main character.

I think we're all forgetting who the anime is targeted at: Children and preteens. They start each new era of the anime as if it's Ash's first adventure to give the new batch of kids a fresh story to follow. While I agree that I would like to see either better continuity or a new main character, I'm not the target demographic, so my opinions would not be much more than an afterthought to the producers.

 

[xayshade]

Well PME Magnagate was pretty okay in terms of aesthetics.

Maybe they are going for that?

[private] Edited for grammar *Drohn

Spoiler: OP

well PME Magnagate was pretty ok in terms of aesthetics.

maybe they are going for that?

[/private]

 

[Ohman177]

I just wanted to see all the pokemon footage there was cause apparently pokebeach didnt post it all.

I have the entire episode recorded. If you would like me to post it, I can. =D (however, the quality isn't all that)

Yes please And if you could message me on my wall (or whatever you call it) with the URL when you post it that would be awesome.

Also you guys are so critical. I play the game to enjoy the story line and to get my favorite pokemon, train them, and then battle. I'm mainly looking forward to seeing the pokemon in the 3d with good designs. The terrain, not so much. I'm not going to say it's horrible just cause I'm walking on squares. Big whoop. Just don't pay attention to them.

 

[ECHOxLegend]

I never heard of any serious cartoon that lasted over 10 seasons and have the same main character.

I think we're all forgetting who the anime is targeted at: Children and preteens. They start each new era of the anime as if it's Ash's first adventure to give the new batch of kids a fresh story to follow. While I agree that I would like to see either better continuity or a new main character, I'm not the target demographic, so my opinions would not be much more than an afterthought to the producers.

guess Im a kid, if that's what it takes to enjoy pokemon then Im already doing it.

 

[The Pikachu Mafia]

It's just that nothing new is going on right now. It's the same thing they've been doing since Hoenn. I wouldn't mind it so much if they changed the main character or even if they at least brought Brock back. However Ash has outlived his welcome and he has yet to even win the league. The series is becoming too redundant even for my tastes (and that's coming from someone who really likes Phineas and Ferb, yeah, I know )

I don't mind shows aimed at little kids, but can't they at least add some variety to it?

 

[Momaster12]

Yes please And if you could message me on my wall (or whatever you call it) with the URL when you post it that would be awesome.

Word. I'll see if I can get it up sometime tomorrow. It's taking a lot longer to encode than I thought.


So. I loved the footage of the game. The only thing that irked me was the fact that we still have the generic surfing Pokémon and it just looked out of place. But I can get past that. And if I'm not mistaken, it was stated that there would be a new way to use HM abilities outside the battle without the HM. Maybe this fact will justify that.
As for the animé footage, the only thing I thought was strange was the way Chespin was animated.
Otherwise awesome stuff!

 

[signofzeta]

I never heard of any serious cartoon that lasted over 10 seasons and have the same main character.

I think we're all forgetting who the anime is targeted at: Children and preteens. They start each new era of the anime as if it's Ash's first adventure to give the new batch of kids a fresh story to follow. While I agree that I would like to see either better continuity or a new main character, I'm not the target demographic, so my opinions would not be much more than an afterthought to the producers.

You call the simpsons a serious cartoon? C'mon man.

 

[Frost]

Yeah, but since when is Pokemon a serious cartoon either?

 

[Fee]

Yeah, but since when is Pokemon a serious cartoon either?

Since when are cartoons serious?