Are we not going to talk about the elephant in the room, being the extreme lack of activity the final 3 days?
Finished Werewolf XXV: Party in Kanto! - Game Over! Town Wins!
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Lack of activity is whatever. :\ gg
Sorry my reads were just off this game, town didn't really deserve this win imo.
Thanks Athena, Pokemon based games are always more fun (for me anyway).
Sorry my reads were just off this game, town didn't really deserve this win imo.
Thanks Athena, Pokemon based games are always more fun (for me anyway).
You weren't the only townie, and we had very good leads in the first days. But yeah, town didn't deserve to win with the way they handled activity and vig shots after the death of me and Lenny. Shooting confotown and barely speaking a word aren't means to victory. Neither did scum deserve to win though. The majority of them died pretty quickly, either from their own slips or via roles and accurate leads, and PMJ just vanished afterwards... the host was way too patient with inactivity, and that allowed players to conveniently laze off/lurk after Day 4.
Speaking of the host... since you asked, here's my two cents. Overall good game and setup. Too many killing roles though-MYLO was reached because not a single vig shot/daykill/autolynch was accurate (not going to comment on the people who were shot). So many killing roles can be devastating to either faction, and I'm generally not in favor of such an unstable mechanic. And finally, too much tolerance and patience. Don't get me wrong, it's good to be tolerant and patient, but the degree of inactivity was high even by PB standards, and I believe it was because no action was taken for a long duration. People who barely read the thread won't really see/bother with the host's pleas, the only way to prevent such a situation is to set a minimum post count or else be prepared to modkill people for inactivity without much regret. Seriously, with Day 6 running pretty much all living players deserved a modkill.
Anyway, hooray for town I guess.
Speaking of the host... since you asked, here's my two cents. Overall good game and setup. Too many killing roles though-MYLO was reached because not a single vig shot/daykill/autolynch was accurate (not going to comment on the people who were shot). So many killing roles can be devastating to either faction, and I'm generally not in favor of such an unstable mechanic. And finally, too much tolerance and patience. Don't get me wrong, it's good to be tolerant and patient, but the degree of inactivity was high even by PB standards, and I believe it was because no action was taken for a long duration. People who barely read the thread won't really see/bother with the host's pleas, the only way to prevent such a situation is to set a minimum post count or else be prepared to modkill people for inactivity without much regret. Seriously, with Day 6 running pretty much all living players deserved a modkill.
Anyway, hooray for town I guess.
Ah, cool. So I guess we somehow managed to pull it off. Thanks to our gracious host for the game.
I can see the discussion about inactivity has been done to death... in the dead chat... so I'll talk about something else instead: The role flip. Or rather, the new version of it done for this game.
IMO, it was interesting, and it had its pros and cons. On the pro side, it was new for the site, and it added to the challenge, and made us get our deductive gears to work. And it worked mostly because everyone had knowledge of the game's flavor, so that even if it was just the name and alignment, we could corroborate facts (like Lenny flipping Sabrina when he died, background knowledge of the game would have us think he really did have seer powers and results because of Sabrina being a known psychic).
But I think this style of reveals is largely dependent and effective on a game where there are a lot of posts. Which is not what happened here. Because we only get the name and alignment of the victim, if they didn't post a lot or have not revealed any ability/ability result of note, then there is no information of any sort that can be obtained or even inferred, no matter how much we know about the game's flavor. So when day changes, we end up with the same amount of information as the day before. Because in this kind of role flip for a WW game, then the only ways you can gain information is from your own ability and the posts of the other players, the latter which was obviously there was little of. As part of the last few players, I believe this is part of why there was little discussion to be had. This is especially evident on Day 5 and 6 which passed in nearly the exact same manner. Nobody was posting or revealing any new information like ability results, intentionally or not... so what could we talk about? Nothing. And so the day just passes with no discussion at all. And forcing the issue is just as bad --- I tried and it didn't work.
In previous PB Werewolf games where the whole role of the killed/lynched is posted, even with inactivity, there was still new information for the remaining active players or the formerly inactive players who want to try to be active to discuss about.
I believe Athena isn't to blame for this though. This style of role flip is perfectly fine... It just didn't work to full effect here due to the inactivity.
I can see the discussion about inactivity has been done to death... in the dead chat... so I'll talk about something else instead: The role flip. Or rather, the new version of it done for this game.
IMO, it was interesting, and it had its pros and cons. On the pro side, it was new for the site, and it added to the challenge, and made us get our deductive gears to work. And it worked mostly because everyone had knowledge of the game's flavor, so that even if it was just the name and alignment, we could corroborate facts (like Lenny flipping Sabrina when he died, background knowledge of the game would have us think he really did have seer powers and results because of Sabrina being a known psychic).
But I think this style of reveals is largely dependent and effective on a game where there are a lot of posts. Which is not what happened here. Because we only get the name and alignment of the victim, if they didn't post a lot or have not revealed any ability/ability result of note, then there is no information of any sort that can be obtained or even inferred, no matter how much we know about the game's flavor. So when day changes, we end up with the same amount of information as the day before. Because in this kind of role flip for a WW game, then the only ways you can gain information is from your own ability and the posts of the other players, the latter which was obviously there was little of. As part of the last few players, I believe this is part of why there was little discussion to be had. This is especially evident on Day 5 and 6 which passed in nearly the exact same manner. Nobody was posting or revealing any new information like ability results, intentionally or not... so what could we talk about? Nothing. And so the day just passes with no discussion at all. And forcing the issue is just as bad --- I tried and it didn't work.
In previous PB Werewolf games where the whole role of the killed/lynched is posted, even with inactivity, there was still new information for the remaining active players or the formerly inactive players who want to try to be active to discuss about.
I believe Athena isn't to blame for this though. This style of role flip is perfectly fine... It just didn't work to full effect here due to the inactivity.
PMJ
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Damn, we lost. I tried, guys. Good game though, and Cinesra yes I knew that my excuse was mediocre at best but I was fighting a losing battle. OH WELL. Good game.
I used fisherman in Werewolf 16 (Captain Falcon).
Inactivity in the late-game town has never been a problem until recently, and I don't know why. Usually by then, everyone who would be inactive has either already been modkilled or subbed out, leaving the active players. This did not happen, and it is supremely shitty to see a good setup go to waste, especially when you took time to make it.
I'm not sure how much the threat of modkill deters players from inactivity. If people want to play, they'll play. If they don't, then what do they care if they get modkilled? Sure, you could blacklist them, but if they're the kind of player that would let themselves get modkilled, they probably would not care to get blacklisted.
The least we can do is do our best to show Ice Espeon the respect his game deserves and see it through to the end. Looking forward to drawing scum again.
I used fisherman in Werewolf 16 (Captain Falcon).
Inactivity in the late-game town has never been a problem until recently, and I don't know why. Usually by then, everyone who would be inactive has either already been modkilled or subbed out, leaving the active players. This did not happen, and it is supremely shitty to see a good setup go to waste, especially when you took time to make it.
I'm not sure how much the threat of modkill deters players from inactivity. If people want to play, they'll play. If they don't, then what do they care if they get modkilled? Sure, you could blacklist them, but if they're the kind of player that would let themselves get modkilled, they probably would not care to get blacklisted.
The least we can do is do our best to show Ice Espeon the respect his game deserves and see it through to the end. Looking forward to drawing scum again.
All I'd like to say in regards to inactivity is if you're not planning on actively participating in a forum game for a minimum of a few weeks, then don't sign up at the beginning. There have been repeat offenders here who just sign up and contribute the minimal amount or don't even post at all. The more activity, the more enjoyable the game will become for everyone involved, it's as simple as that.
As for the game itself, I had a good time playing. The roles were interesting and unique, and no flips on death made for a fun twist on the typical Beach WW game. As CJ said, there was an unusually large amount of killing roles, but other than that I can find no faults.
I also want to point out that Drac played an important part in the town's victory. Between placing the vote on PMJ that avoided Athena's secret tie-breaker method and powering up Lenny, which allowed him to expose my role, he brought about the end for the scum team. Squirtle Squad also played a very strong game as town; in hindsight, switching his Pokemon was not a great move, even though we weren't aware that he would know whose Pokemon his was switched with.
As for the game itself, I had a good time playing. The roles were interesting and unique, and no flips on death made for a fun twist on the typical Beach WW game. As CJ said, there was an unusually large amount of killing roles, but other than that I can find no faults.
I also want to point out that Drac played an important part in the town's victory. Between placing the vote on PMJ that avoided Athena's secret tie-breaker method and powering up Lenny, which allowed him to expose my role, he brought about the end for the scum team. Squirtle Squad also played a very strong game as town; in hindsight, switching his Pokemon was not a great move, even though we weren't aware that he would know whose Pokemon his was switched with.
You did a wonderful job hosting, Athena! The roles were all very well planned and thought out as well.
I'm sorry to everyone for not understanding how paraphrasing works, I admit that was pretty dumb of me. :/ I also realize I may not make the best scum, but it was my first time being scum.
I'm sorry to everyone for not understanding how paraphrasing works, I admit that was pretty dumb of me. :/ I also realize I may not make the best scum, but it was my first time being scum.
I think i contribute the most minimum compare to all.. Not being able to clearly see the effect of my ability really have me gambling each time i picked a person to boost.
PMJ said:
Could it be due to a shift in meta (aka players)?
In regards to the role flips, IDRM. I feel no flips just added a bit of a challenge to the actual game, and technically there is no need to actually know a player's abilities. And, like someone said at the start of the game, no flips (and no quoting) encourages more reads based on activity and not based on roles.
PMJ
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bbninjas said:
I don't know, but you'd think that it wouldn't be a problem. The idea would be that the active players remain and the inactive ones get weeded out, no matter who they are. I hope this is not the future of the game.
bbninjas said:
To be fair, that's something else to keep in mind. In games like TheGuy's (which was roughly less than a year ago) we had people like Porygon-X, alex, Electimortar, WanderingWolf, DevinTheWelf and the such, and some were very active in their time. Now, they're just gone, but people like Vom and yourself, ninjas, arrived. However the influx of players is way smaller than the outgoing ones. (We're losing more players than the ones we've gained). This exact thing happened in The Challenge. As time goes by, generations change. People come and go.
Now, that said... Is that an excuse for inactivity? Not quite. As TT said, when you sign-up, you're supposed to commit to the game at least enough time to contribute. In this game, for example, Teal would be one that had little to no commitment to the game, and should have been mod-killed when he started saying "Here, but not". :v If you won't have the time, don't sign up. Period.
And even so, other active people in the forum, which was around and commenting in other parts of the forums, was just ignoring this thread in Olympic measures. Dx Not having time is one thing, but having it and give this lack of consideration towards the game, GM and players is just deplorable. Look at me, for example. I'm crowded with University classes (and those in the Staff know those hours precisely), and even though, I manage to take at least some time to browse the game from my phone and comment when necessary (and possible).
My two
I feel like the problem is a combination of not modkilling inactives like Teal, IE, and PMJ and outside issues. New people still join the forums, but pretty much none of them are joining werewolf for some reason. As Luis, said, we've lost formerly active people like Wandering Wolf, Devin the Welf, and Porygon-X and otherwise active people were killed early like Celever, bb, and Vom. I also feel part of the problem is the timing. March is in the middle of a semester and IE mentioned that the reason he was inactive was because of midterms. PMJ, TheGuy, IE, and Teal are usually more active and I think some of it was that we just got unlucky with people having their time taken up by real life.
I can also speak from personal experience that my inactivity from the day or two that MLK was lynched was because I didn't feel like there was really any information being given or much discussion which leads to fewer reads so I couldn't really offer my opinions, not to mention that my grandmother was in the hospital. I feel no role reveal upon death contributed by giving people less to talk about, but I otherwise like the inclusion.
I still liked the game, though.
I can also speak from personal experience that my inactivity from the day or two that MLK was lynched was because I didn't feel like there was really any information being given or much discussion which leads to fewer reads so I couldn't really offer my opinions, not to mention that my grandmother was in the hospital. I feel no role reveal upon death contributed by giving people less to talk about, but I otherwise like the inclusion.
I still liked the game, though.
PMJ said:
Ok, you were never inactive in the game. But you didn't post in the thread in over 3 in game days. That's over 3 weeks of not making a public post in the game. That is a huge problem.
Disappeared on 2-28, saying you'd be unable to post for the next day or so, returned to the thread on 3-12.
PMJ said:
Having to waste lynches with inactives is a good way to lose games. Lynches are typically your only way to remove scum from the game. If you have to use them to kill off i actives, you are just setting the scum up for the easy win as they are fine with the lynch, and then will night kill.
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