(MORE INPUT NEEDED see post 126) - Does Pokemon Need to go Back to Basics?

RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

I don't think completely redesigning the game and adding new rules is the way to go. We want to make a healthy Pokemon metagame, not create a whole new game. I think we should keep Pokemon as it is, and only tweak rules that balance out formats, such as not playing T/S/S first turn, not attacking first turn, etc.

I think one of the main reasons Pokemon is so fast right now (besides Collector), is because if people don't get a start they like, they can just use PONT, Juniper, or N to grab a new hand. The card draw/hand refresh is far too good. Twins is a four-of in almost every deck that doesn't get set up turn one. I think instead of something like Pokemon Collector, have this:

______ - Supporter
Search your deck for a Pokemon, show it to your opponent, and add it to your hand. Your opponent may search their deck for a basic Pokemon, show it to you, and add it to their hand.

Instead of PONT/Juniper have this.

______ - Supporter
Discard your hand, then draw cards equal to the number of Pokemon on your bench.

Two pet cards I've been working on are Plusle and Minun.

Plusle - 60HP
Ability - Helping Hands
When you play Plusle from your hand onto your bench, draw a card. If you have a Minun on your bench, instead search your deck for any one card, show it to your opponent, and add it to your hand.

{L} Minus Tag
Return Plusle and all cards attached to it to your deck. Search your deck for Minun, show it to your opponent, and add it to your hand. Then shuffle your deck.

~~~

Minun - 60HP
Ability - Helping Hands
When you play Minun from your hand onto the bench, your opponent must discard a card. If you have Plusle on your bench, instead look at your opponents hand, choose one card you find there, and discard it.

{L} Plus Tag
Return Minun and all cards attached to it to your deck. Search your deck for Plusle, show it to your opponent, and add it to your hand. Then shuffle your deck.

Basically these cards are examples of effective card draw/tutoring that isn't as easy as saying "meh", and playing PONT. Or searching up your entire arsenal of threats with Pokemon Collector. These are designed to make you think for a few minutes before using your draw cards.
 
RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

I'm glad to see somebody taking initiative on an issue like this, Celebi. It only takes one or two people that have a lot of experience and weight in an area to produce an idea that gains a large following. I'd be more than willing to help when it comes to play testing the various sets that will be coming out. As long as it slowly gains popularity, and you have people with a decent track record chipping in and showing off the new format outside of the internet, things could go far!
 
RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

I think we just need to make stage 1 and 2 cards more playable, or at least basics less playable/powerful

something like this:

stadium

as long as this card is in play, all pokemon take 40 less damage from the attacks of a pokemon with a lower evolutionary stage.
_________________________________________________________________________________

it means basics still kill basics, but stage 1s get a big boost against them and stage 2 vs stage 1s.

also, broken space time's effect needs a reprint. It makes evolution cards much more playable and brings them up to speed with basics
 
RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

I don't think some of you are getting the point Celebi is trying to make. We're not making new mechanics - we're simply creating new cards with the TCG influenced ideas to make for a healthier format. Whoever said anything about Elder Pokemon is trying to create a new Trading Card Game, and that isn't what we want.
 
RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

Yes, that's what I was saying. If we try to make to many new things, we'll lose sight of our original goal - to create a healthy Pokemon metagame. I think the best ways to do that are:

A) Lower the HP of basic Pokemon.
B) Lower the power of attacks.
and C) Change card draw/tutoring/hand refresh so that it requires more skill.
 
RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

nabby101 said:
I don't think completely redesigning the game and adding new rules is the way to go. We want to make a healthy Pokemon metagame, not create a whole new game. I think we should keep Pokemon as it is, and only tweak rules that balance out formats, such as not playing T/S/S first turn, not attacking first turn, etc.

I think one of the main reasons Pokemon is so fast right now (besides Collector), is because if people don't get a start they like, they can just use PONT, Juniper, or N to grab a new hand. The card draw/hand refresh is far too good. Twins is a four-of in almost every deck that doesn't get set up turn one. I think instead of something like Pokemon Collector, have this:

______ - Supporter
Search your deck for a Pokemon, show it to your opponent, and add it to your hand. Your opponent may search their deck for a basic Pokemon, show it to you, and add it to their hand.

Instead of PONT/Juniper have this.

______ - Supporter
Discard your hand, then draw cards equal to the number of Pokemon on your bench.

Two pet cards I've been working on are Plusle and Minun.

Plusle - 60HP
Ability - Helping Hands
When you play Plusle from your hand onto your bench, draw a card. If you have a Minun on your bench, instead search your deck for any one card, show it to your opponent, and add it to your hand.

{L} Minus Tag
Return Plusle and all cards attached to it to your deck. Search your deck for Minun, show it to your opponent, and add it to your hand. Then shuffle your deck.

~~~

Minun - 60HP
Ability - Helping Hands
When you play Minun from your hand onto the bench, your opponent must discard a card. If you have Plusle on your bench, instead look at your opponents hand, choose one card you find there, and discard it.

{L} Plus Tag
Return Minun and all cards attached to it to your deck. Search your deck for Plusle, show it to your opponent, and add it to your hand. Then shuffle your deck.

Basically these cards are examples of effective card draw/tutoring that isn't as easy as saying "meh", and playing PONT. Or searching up your entire arsenal of threats with Pokemon Collector. These are designed to make you think for a few minutes before using your draw cards.

Except we don't want this game to become like yugioh, Which is exactally what the Plusle and Minun seem like
 
RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

The Yoshi said:
I don't think some of you are getting the point Celebi is trying to make. We're not making new mechanics - we're simply creating new cards with the TCG influenced ideas to make for a healthier format. Whoever said anything about Elder Pokemon is trying to create a new Trading Card Game, and that isn't what we want.

Sorry about that, it was early in the morning and I wasn't thinking straight. XD
 
RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

Except we don't want this game to become like yugioh, Which is exactally what the Plusle and Minun seem like
How so? The only card I can think of that has any similarities to what you mentioned there are Trap Dustshoot (which is now gone) and Morphtronic Accelerator. The Plusle and Minun just look like altered versions of Pidgey TM.

How do they look like Yugioh? Please, enlighten us.
 
RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

I actually think that the Plusle/Minun are great cards! They balance disruption and unbrokenessby requiring both cards to be out for a good effect.
 
RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

Deus: Nightmare Autarch said:
How so? The only card I can think of that has any similarities to what you mentioned there are Trap Dustshoot (which is now gone) and Morphtronic Accelerator. The Plusle and Minun just look like altered versions of Pidgey TM.

How do they look like Yugioh? Please, enlighten us.

Dustshoot got banned?

Also, yeah, I guess Plusle and Minun's attacks are like Pidgey TM.

Leafy101 said:
I actually think that the Plusle/Minun are great cards! They balance disruption and unbrokenessby requiring both cards to be out for a good effect.

That's what I was going for. Cards that aren't just easy forms of card advantage or disruption, ones that require more skill to play. For instance, what kinds of decks would run 2 of each Plusle and Minun? What decks would run just 1? Would there be decks that rely on Minun for disruption, and therefore run 4 of each? or 4-3? Most decks just cram 3-4 Pokemon Collectors, 4 PONT, some Junipers/N, etc in and it works out fine. With cards like Plusle and Minun, I want people to work for their card advantage or disruption. It would shift the format in favour of more skilled players, not just a game of "who plays Pokemon Collector first" and "who charges their Mewtwo EX up quickest".
 
RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

Instead of making new sets, why not just reuse old ones? It would be easier for the people working on it and be more appealing for me because the cards are officially made with official artwork. Their could be Poke'beach limited past format tourneys if this idea was to follow through.

As a player of the game for the past 12 years, I would be much more intrigued if we just went back to the actual basics as opposed to making our own. We could go off of the past formats and the past cards. Also we could easily drop the ban hammer on certain cards and even whole sets to make the format our very own.

I don't really understand how you can go back to basics, if you're creating a new version. Wouldn't you be going forward to basics?
 
RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

Megaphone said:
I'm glad to see somebody taking initiative on an issue like this, Celebi. It only takes one or two people that have a lot of experience and weight in an area to produce an idea that gains a large following. I'd be more than willing to help when it comes to play testing the various sets that will be coming out. As long as it slowly gains popularity, and you have people with a decent track record chipping in and showing off the new format outside of the internet, things could go far!
Thanks. :) I got Zero in on this as well since he's more experienced in other CCGs/TCGs, he's played the game longer than I have, and he likes card design. So we'll see how that goes. I'm hoping that between the two of us we'll be able to catch anything broken or boring.
27th_wonder said:
I think we just need to make stage 1 and 2 cards more playable, or at least basics less playable/powerful

something like this:

stadium

as long as this card is in play, all pokemon take 40 less damage from the attacks of a pokemon with a lower evolutionary stage.
_________________________________________________________________________________

it means basics still kill basics, but stage 1s get a big boost against them and stage 2 vs stage 1s.

also, broken space time's effect needs a reprint. It makes evolution cards much more playable and brings them up to speed with basics
Stage 2's were fine before BTS was printed. BTS is bad because it allows too many donks and donk situations, and because it makes it hard to use other Stadiums, which is always unfortunate.
The Yoshi said:
I don't think some of you are getting the point Celebi is trying to make. We're not making new mechanics - we're simply creating new cards with the TCG influenced ideas to make for a healthier format. Whoever said anything about Elder Pokemon is trying to create a new Trading Card Game, and that isn't what we want.
I agree. However, I did suggest adding one new mechanic to draw more players in. Having a new idea combined with a better metagame is more attractive than only a new metagame, especially since there's no prize support. If people don't like it, it can be removed very easily.
dirupti said:
Instead of making new sets, why not just reuse old ones? It would be easier for the people working on it and be more appealing for me because the cards are officially made with official artwork. Their could be Poke'beach limited past format tourneys if this idea was to follow through.

As a player of the game for the past 12 years, I would be much more intrigued if we just went back to the actual basics as opposed to making our own. We could go off of the past formats and the past cards. Also we could easily drop the ban hammer on certain cards and even whole sets to make the format our very own.

I don't really understand how you can go back to basics, if you're creating a new version. Wouldn't you be going forward to basics?
I was hoping somebody would say that. ;)

The difference between using old cards and creating new ones is simple: if new cards are being released, there is an element of excitement added to the game. People have to learn how to play with new concepts and ideas, new mechanics can be added to the game, and players have extra freedom to build the game themselves, the way they want to play it. If you're just playing past formats, you're using the same decks or groups of cards over and over again. This gets boring quickly, especially for those who have played the game for a long time.
 
RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

Well said Celebii. As much as I'd apreciate having past format tournaments here on the beach, it wouldn't be the same as what you guys are excited for.
 
RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

Current update: We're about a third done drafting the set. Once it's drafted, we'll work out any kinks that could arise if everything is released as a whole set. Then, we'll write up a final draft for everything and give it to the designers to make real cards out of. Once we're fully done with the set spoilers, though, do you guys want us to release those? You'd have to play with cards of the same name or something if you wanted to play with them, and it might be a month or so before we're done with the actual cards (we only have two artists at the moment.) However, I think it would be more exciting if we released them as real cards instead of as spoilers. Does anybody have an opinion on this?
 
RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

Wait...you guys are actually going to give these cards to PCL (or someone who works with them)? Who do you mean by designers?
 
RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

The people who will turn the spoilers into fake cards with images and stuff. We're not giving them to PCL or anybody like that.
 
RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

Oh, okay, that's good. What a relief.
I'd like to see what these guys will do with the cards.
 
RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

So you would rather wait until the artists finish before we release anything?
 
RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

By real cards do you mean you guys are actually going to be printing real life cards, or we would have to print them from our own homes?

This thread is pure win, by the way.
 
RE: Does Pokémon Need to go Back to Basics?

Celebi23 said:
So you would rather wait until the artists finish before we release anything?
I don't care when you release it. I'm patient; I will wait as long as necessary.
 
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