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Discussion in 'Pokémon Trading Card Game' started by Water Pokémon Master, Nov 16, 2015.
I can definitly see Giratina / Umbreon ANTI-MEGA decks happening !
imagine playing two level balls, an ultra ball (discarding two pokemon for that) and using umbreon to discard the three pokemon, then getting a battle compressor from the attack. i dont sleep anyways
What I mean is Mega in general aren't all that great with the exception of Manectric and Rayquaza. And effect like that punishes other decks that use megas way too hard. If it were anti [L] or [C] Pokemon, then we all could see their potential targets with the effect. There really isn't any reason to keep Megas in check since a lot of them are underwhelming. We also don't know how they'll print any feature megas. I feel this should have either been another effect or target those Pokemon specifically.
Oh, and my comment on more dark support cards, I meant we need anti dark support cards because that type is far too powerful. Colorless Pokemon need a massive buff.
I think colorless isn't going to receive to much more support, it got a set focus on it with roaring skies.
We all know that was a dragon support set.
Dragon got some nice support in Roaring Skies, however colorless was definitely the focus of the set. The colorless basic and Mega Rayquaza were obviously made more powerful than their dragon counterparts. Also there was the Ancient Trait Altaria to negate the weakness from colorless Pokémon. (Btw Altaria got a promo) Then there is Shaymin EX, the powerful set-up Pokémon. And Roaring Skies even got a supporter dedicated to Colorless Pokémon: Winona
I don't feel that mega rayquaza and mega manetric are the only mega threats. I haven't seen any Mega Rayquaza, but lots of Mega Sceptile, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Gallade, Primal Kyogre, Primal Groudon, and Mega Manetric. Having more power only over those two is unnecessary. Their weaknesses are already holding that back from everyone playing with them. They also wouldn't make an anti dark support card because that would make almost every deck inconsistent and dark isn't even that popular of a type compared to other things like fairy and Metal. IMO the only megas that are underwhelming are the ones without spirit links, but they still can be powerful. For EX: Mega Kangaskan. I feel all Megas can work some how. My friend was able to win a City championship with a Mega Ampharos deck so every mega can somehow be good so never judge a card by first glance.
@Robin Aisaga @SRreplet51
Those are only cards that support the type, while other sets with obvious themes supported their types well. Sky Field doesn't work only for colorless types like every other theme stadium in sets. Not one EX is of a Pokemon you would normally associate with the flying type. This would have been the perfect set to drop Pidgeot EX and m Pidgeot EX, yet we get Rayquaza, who is a dragon (don't matter if it is colorless). Instead of Staraptor or Talonflame EX, we get more dragons. Hydreigon EX could have been one of the two with colorless support but its more dragon support. DDE could have been a energy to support colorless Pokemon BUT its just more dragon support. Shaymin EX, again isn't a Pokemon you associate with the flying type, which colorless represent (in this case for the theme). Sure these Pokemon can fly but there were better choices other than dragon, who already had a theme set.
When I found out about this set releasing, I was happy because I could have had a Pidgeot EX, something I always wanted but I found out it was just more dragon support, which hurt me deeply.
Well, those are some threats. I consider any Pokemon that can do large damage for or less energy a problem. I think a lot of the megas have hidden potential since they all can be powerful but this effect is far too aggressive. Sure the effect is easy to play around but megas aren't warping the format in a way to justify such an effect.
Manetric doesn't OHKO too many pokemon and this card probably won't change the format for megas and they won't go away. They may go a bit because of this card which would cause less Umbreon EX and then Megas will probably come back again. I also don't agree with you with megas "aren't going to warp the format". The reason is, Megas are some of the best cards we have in standard. Right now I would say about 1/6 of standard decks are probably Mega Manetric.
Pokemon like Yveltal EX warped the mega. Mewtwo EX and Darkrai EX warped the meta. There hasn't been a mega that has done this yet to my knowledge. Sceptile EX is being used because a lot of big threats are weak to the grass typing (both primals, Toad EX, pretty much any water pokemon). I'm not saying they are that good, because they are but they don't have the impact on the format people think they do. People also prefer to just play Manectric EX over the mega.
Just to be clear, I didn't say megas "aren't going to warp the format", rather "megas aren't warping the format in a way to justify such an effect."
I'm so glad they are finally making Eeveelution ex's.
I feel like that first attack will see use in anything that likes to drop cards into the discard like, Bronzong, Night March and Vespiquen And that last attack is something that can't be overlooked. If you can set up a Mega for a knockout you could hold it in you hand and then bench it, Dark Patch, Double Colorless, swing for four prizes. The name is very fitting too haha "End Game" will most likely end games.
What the literal...
That Umbreon actually looks promising in expanded
Laserbank + Bats + Zoroark
From a Standard Format perspective, Umbreon EX seems pretty balanced to me. It's near useless against decks without Mega Pokemon, and it takes a Dark so not every deck can easily run it. A Mega Pokemon deck facing against a deck with Umbreon EX has options to deal with it because 1) it can only get the extra prizes if they choose to Mega evolve, and 2) it has to be the one to KO the Mega. So just running Umbreon EX against a Mega deck doesn't automatically make it a 4 prize game.
I'm confident good players will be able to play around this. On the other side, it's only 1 card for a chance at a 4 prize game in decks that can power it up, so it's a small investment for an insane reward. It can also change the way your opponent plays without even attacking.
Oh, I can not wait to get my hands on a couple copies of this amazing card. I see a lot of devastating potential with End Game. 70 damage isn't all that bad considering all the ways out there to throw damage around. I can see Ariados being a good card with this Umbreon.
Even if it just needs one dark (and a DCE), I can definitely see this beign played in a lot of decks. Just toss in a pair of rainbows and you're good to go.
I want a format where in a given role, all fully Evolved Pokémon operate at a similar level and where all Types are roughly of comparable strengths. Why? Pretty sure every Pokémon is someone's favorite, even if some are significantly more popular than others. Whether you're playing, collecting or even just buying cards without really doing either, that matters. If you are playing or collecting, it is really annoying not only when your favorites aren't that much fun to play or collect, but when there are a lot of "filler" cards in general that are not fun to play or collect. As a player one also has to worry about game balance "accidentally" being goofed up by what was supposed to be a harmless filler card, either directly or through combos.
For more detail:
To be clear, "fully Evolved Pokémon" means something that can't further Evolve, though Mega Evolutions and BREAK Pokémon have complicated this; yeah, even though Mega Evolutions are part of the source material, still a complication the game didn't need. "Role" means recognizing the generalized functions scene in at least some (if not most) decks: opener, closer, main attacker, Bench-sitter, etc. Some roles are likely only appropriate to certain Stages, but it is mostly "Set-up attacker probably should not be an Evolution."; being the main attacker even when something is a Stage 2 should be plausible and without Evolution acceleration. In fact, most acceleration in the game is why Evolved Pokémon struggle (besides cards that are just clearly overpowered =P). Don't let them hit for damage (technically "significant" damage, but might as well play it safe) on a player's first turn. Don't give them a useful opening attack or Ability and then also give them something that turns them into the main attacker or a useful Bench-sitter.
Basics have a built in advantage of needing fewer cards, and historically this was balanced out by trying to allow Evolutions to do more but again, that hasn't really worked. So instead, make sure that a Basic main attacker needs to be accompanied by something else (probably another Basic) as an opener or else just sit there for a few turns while it powers up. This reduces the card and speed advantage of Basic Pokémon. Now make lower Stages more useful (without getting into things like Night March) territory. Instead of a Stage 2 needing to carry the weight for the entire line, let the Evolving Basic be useful in setting up, maybe give the Stage 1 a solid coming-into-play Ability and then the Stage 2 can be the main attacker or the Bench-sitter or what have you.
Yes, all of this assumes we are going to have to just wait for most of the current stuff to rotate because... well that is really the only option. We've been trying "counters" for a while now and they don't work too well. Still probably forgetting some stuff, but that's a start.
Anyway, onto Umbreon-EX itself: no it does not look super amazing but it also doesn't look "harmless". If Umbreon-EX KOs a Mega Evolution, that is worth four Prizes. So you can lose up to four Prizes and still trade evenly (well, at least in terms of Prizes). I don't try to make claims like "Such and such takes no skill!". For starters, it might take a lot of skill to create a solid "general" deck that obliterates Mega Evolutions using Umbreon-EX to take a massive four Prizes in one shot. What I will highlight is that these kind of effects? Makes it feel like we aren't actually playing a two-player game. This isn't the first instance of this kind of game design, it certainly isn't the most egregious and it won't be the last.
While this likely won't see much play in standard due to difficulty to set up, I can easily see this as a 1 of in Expanded. Great card design IMO. 2 very useful attacks.
If the set includes Alakazam/Mega Alakazam , does that mean KADABRA! Probably not... But, it would be great to get a comeback of Kadabra in the TCG. Last Kadabra card was in 2003 with the Skyridge Set.
It was because of a lawsuit that still has not reached agreement to this day. So... no Kadabra card.
Have this card beat out a Mega evolved EX Pokemon, and you've got 4 prize cards coming your way! That's Ridiculous!
Same here! I'm just getting back in again, and already excited about two sets, I don't even know thát much about!
Ahhhh, I'd personally love a M Audino. *heart-eyes*
I. Need. That. UMBREON!
Me too! And now, I'm getting all eager and hoping for more in the future..