'Explosive Impact,' Japan's SM8 Set; Raises Questions About Switch Release

Discussion in 'Pokémon Trading Card Game' started by Water Pokémon Master, May 28, 2018.

  1. OppositeAttract Aspiring Trainer
    OppositeAttract

    Member

    I feel like Heracross will do best not in grass decks, but as a tech option for decks running counter energy that have a stage 2 that want to hit for grass weakness.
     


  2. Ebralith Aspiring Trainer
    Ebralith

    Member

    I think there is a misconception of value here, regarding Meganium's ability.
    While, on paper, it seems incredible... in practice, it will almost always be clunkier than Rare Candy.

    Especially since, being a stage2 itself, you'd want to Rare Candy Meganium anyways.
    If it was a good attacker, it would synergize with itself.

    But it's not.
    It needs to be paired with another stage2.
    and once Meganium has evolved your attacker, it becomes wasted bench space.

    Yes, it can consistently string attackers late-game.
    But most Stage2s don't need that. You're compromising early set-up consistency, for unneeded late-game set-up.
    Similar argument arose when we saw Illuminate Shiinotic from SM.

    TL;DR
    Rare Candy > Meganium

    Even excluding Rare Candy, I'd rather set-up with Leafeon's GX, or Grovyle's ability.
    Those are both more consistent, and both Pokemon lend support to a deck, outside of just evolving your Pokemon.
     
    Wechselbalg likes this.
  3. MiniMads The misunderstood Hero of Disasters
    MiniMads

    Member

    I'm going against the majority of people here but I'm going to go out and say that I love Meganium (I know I said the same about Azumarill the other day but hear me out). I can see this being a 1-0-1 in ANY deck that plays Rare Candy, because if you can get that Meganium out, you can get rolling pretty quickly AND did I mention it states NOWHERE on the card that you have to follow the evolution rules. Boy am I loving this, and I'm going to go out and say it, but this Meganium is an 8/10 card.
    I'm not the biggest fan of Heracross, some have said it could go in Sceptile but in my Sceptile list I've made there isn't room for any more Pokemon (I already have 19 in the list). I see it being used more in decks that want to hit Grass weakness and run Counter Energy, just as a counter to stuff like Aquabox. My rating, a 4/10.
    AZUMARILL RE-RATE:
    I have come out of my Azumarill hype coma and realised that Azumarill isn't that good. It's what an item once did as an attack (but better). If this was a basic, my score would be the same, but it's a stage 1, therefore my new score is 6/10 compared to it's original 8/10
     
    Holden Sheeks likes this.
  4. Serperior 224/500
    Serperior

    Advanced Member Member

    Yo why is Sugimori artwork being wasted on a stock background like this? My mans is a legend - recall his original artwork for Heracross in Neo Genesis - that's how you do it. This is disrespect.
     
  5. Ebralith Aspiring Trainer
    Ebralith

    Member

    You're definitely caught in the hype for this one.

    Rare Candy is already a space commitment for any stage2 deck.
    Usually, the stage1 is replaced to mitigate this.

    Further increasing the slots used just to evolve your attacker, is a bad idea.
    Especially when Meganium is not a consistent option, in the first place.

    I don't see myself needing to use a rare candy on Meganium, as opposed to just evolving my attacker.
    Again, this is the same argument we saw with Shiinotic.

    Because Meganium itself needs set-up, you are lowering your consistency overall.
     
  6. SquirtleRules Aspiring Trainer
    SquirtleRules

    Advanced Member Member

    Meganium also does not appear to be limited to grass pokemon. That opens up so many doors and possibilities and combinations, I can't even count them.

    Given that, this card is VERY interesting. There are a lot of Stage 2s that are great but pulled down by the cost of being stage 2 (Decidueye, Swampert, Garchomp, Dark Incineroar GX, Sceptile GX and baby Sceptile, Charizard GX, Shiftry GX, etc.) This makes ALL of these better.

    Here's a test of whether a pokemon is good: if you see it on the other player's bench, will you try to knock it out asap? If you see Meganium on the other player's bench, and you know there are other stage 2's coming, you can't knock out Meganium fast enough. Test passed.

    Any0ne remember Super Boost Energy? Automatic include with any deck with Meganium.
     
  7. GamePhoenix Fellow Mortal
    GamePhoenix

    Member

    Ability is great, but on a stage 2 with no other reason to play...
     
  8. Dark Espeon Dark Avatar
    Dark Espeon

    Member

    The main issue is that stage 2 decks have other options beside Meganium. One of them is to use Alolan Nintales GX to search out candies and other cards needed to set up stage 2 decks. Alolan Ninetales GX has Alolan Vulpix SM2 to search out Pokémon and Alolan Ninetales GX to search out item cards. It is also not limited to searching Rare Candy and is therefore more versatile. In addition Alolan Ninetales GX and Meganium take up approximately the same number of deck slots.

    The more pressing issue of stage 2 decks at the moment is that most of them are unable to achieve ohkos with the exception of Gardevoir GX and Solgaleo GX. Another exception could be the new Lunala GX. At the same time there are several more aggressive stage 1 and Basic Pokémon decks able to ohko stage 2 Pokémon.
     
  9. SquirtleRules Aspiring Trainer
    SquirtleRules

    Advanced Member Member

    Good point on Alolan Vulpix + Ninetails. What I like is that there are more options for stage 2 decks coming. Alolan Vulpix + Ninetails is one option but comes with its own costs (Vulpix must be active, Vulpix can be 'Judged', Ninetails costs 2 prizes if KO'd etc.). Not saying which is Stage 2 booster is better, but there are options now. With Meganium, 4xSteven's Decision is a big help (think about that for a minute ...) Example: use SD to get baby Metagross/Meganium going ... first get baby Metagross (via rare candy), then you have a stage 2 production line with Meganium + SD.

    IMHO, Meganium turns stage 2s into stage 1s.

    Disagree about stage 2 OHKOs - there are many more - see Charizard GX, Blaziken GX, Garchomp (with Cynthia), Baby Sceptile + Venasaur, etc. All previously shunned bc of Stage 2...
     
  10. Perfect_Shot Standard sucks, so Ban Expanded
    Perfect_Shot

    Member

    The Meganium argument people have going isn't a very good one.... Rare Candy already, in technicality 'turns Stage 2s into Stage 1s' so why would you waste more deck space on something that doesn't carry its own weight? Meganium has poor attacks and I certainly wouldn't waste a Guzma on it when I can simply knock out whatever attacker it brings out as it comes.
     
    Starsoulklr likes this.
  11. LatiosKing2216 Finally a good SM Vaporeon card?
    LatiosKing2216

    Member

    Personally, I like the concept of this Meganium, but I also agree that it is way too clunky at the moment. Stage 2 decks already have a huge problem with early game setup, and I don't feel like this Meganium will help with that. However, if a fast option is introduced that can bring out Meganium without rare candy (like Archie's or Maxie's) then I think the card is incredibly potent.
     
  12. Haha is it just me or is Meganium looking a little, how you say, fierce, this time around?
     
  13. fleshrum April in Kalos...
    fleshrum

    Member

    no doubt we all can :p

    only, this time it wasn't a pidgeot request
     
  14. Skylite Aspiring Trainer
    Skylite

    Member

    An exploitable Heracross? Finally. Hasn't been 10 years!
     
  15. Heviin Aspiring Trainer
    Heviin

    Member

    The word you're looking for is THICC. ;)
     
    Holden Sheeks and DragonFang101 like this.
  16. Meganium always T H I C C
     
  17. Dark Espeon Dark Avatar
    Dark Espeon

    Member

    Charizard GX and Blaziken GX have the additional issue that there is little support to recover the energies these cards discard and re-attach them to them immediately. Magcargo non-Gx combined with Magcargo GX could be used to accelerate energies but Magcargo GX does not need a stage 2 fire attacker since he suffices on his own.

    Garchomp sure can knock out opponents in one hit but he has Lucario and Lance Prism Star to ensure a stable stream of attackers. Both need less deck space and are more versatile than Meganium. The issue with Garchomp is to retain energy on the battlefield since Garchomp in essence needs two energy attachments to ohko the opponent.

    This leaves us with Sceptile combined with Venusaur. Personally I consider it to be difficult to get three stage 2 lines out and maintain them on the battlefield.

    Another issue is that we need to ask what stage 2 Pokémon provide over and above the available stage 1 and Basic Pokémon alternatives. We know that there are various stage 1 and Basic Pokémon decks able to ohko the defender. Thus stage 2 decks need to be able to do the same to be more attractive. One attractive feasure may be that you might get one more ohko out of a stage 2 Pokémon compared to the stage 1 and Basic Pokémon alternatives. Unfortunately that is not really the case here. Another potentially attractive feature would be if the stage 2 Pokémon were easier to power up once they are out. Unfortunately this is not the case either. While the new Incineroar GX inherits this trait with Scar Charge this also reduces his health to that of a stage 1 Pokémon. In addition his main attack does not achieve a ohko.

    Sceptile GX at first glance looks like a promissing partner for Meganium but he does have access to a decent Grovyle that helps to stabilize and thin the deck. it also allows the deck to run a smaller Lurantis Promo line to enable Sceptile Gx to hit numbers.

    Consistency is not the only issue that holds stage 2 decks back at the moment. Stage 2 decks need four slots that other decks can devote to additional consistency cards or utility cards. For this reason deck space is more limited in stage 2 decks compared to stage 1 decks or Basic Pokémon decks. On the other hand the number of stage 2 Pokémon that offer a benefit over stage 1 decks and Basic Pokémon decks is limited. The only ones that come to mind are Gardevoir GX, Garchomp, and a combination of both versions of Solgaleo GX.

    If we would receive a decent Maganium GX and useable pre-evolutions for the Meganium line in addition to a Revitalizer reprint the situation for Meganium would be entirely different since it would now be used as a tech within the same line as a means to speed up the set up and recovery of defeated Meganium GX.

    In a nutshell: It is not that Meganium is a bad card bzt there is one harsh enemy of a decent to good card: A better card or an alternative Pokémon line that accomplishes the same aim with less resource investment needed to set up and maintain the deck.
     
    DragonFang101 likes this.
  18. Wechselbalg *****
    Wechselbalg

    Member

    Wow, thank you, finally someone understands.
     
  19. The PokeMan 11 Aspiring Trainer
    The PokeMan 11

    Member

    I find it funny hat streng of 100 cant do exactly 100 dmg
     
  20. Julio Penaloza Aspiring Trainer
    Julio Penaloza

    Member

    Interesting. I'm excited about grass type pokemon
     

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