Finished Werewolf XXXIII: Order in the Court!- Congratulations Law!

[Camoclone]

Celever is still an excellent lynch.

 

[Luispipe8]

This is a big thing that scum are much, much more inclined to do then town - congratulating good kills, showing relief and stuff. I'll have to go back and check to see if this is normal for town Luis, but it's certainly a big thing imo.

Yeah... just because scum /can/ do it to look townier doesn't guarantee them being scum. Imagine someone literally dies and you go to a funeral. If someone stays quiet means he's grieving, but if someone says "I'm sorry for your loss" it means he's glad the person died? I me use logic. There's a chance? Of course, but it's not a definite scumtell.

Which means the issue is the reasoning you gave to accompany your vote.

You're misunderstanding my post. I meant "from /my POV/ tgk is the best lynch#. I wasn't saying "oh, tgk will die anyways, might as well vote for him".

So, I went back and checked, and there was no particularly similar situation that Luis was in as far as I can see since there was either no crossfire or no two scum teams, or he was the host/dead, so that's irritating. :/

Oh, yeah, I was actually talking to Dogger the other day about the time TheGuy(alpha indie) killed MtC (Harry Potter) the exact same night he was recruited by the Death Eaters. I seriously lol'd when processing that.

Information fish.

If Miyami got the evidence through a 3rd party, how can she be so sure she can return it? That's the point in my post: inconsistency and incoherence. Not a claim.

He contradicts himself depending on what will make him look better.

Contradictory? I pressured TGK since he started acting scummy. I hesitated when he claimed, but voted for him in the end.

He is hypocritical.

lol, wut? Hypocritical? Mind as well expain yourself better.

Reading simsands' case atm.

 

[bbninjas]

Yeah... just because scum /can/ do it to look townier doesn't guarantee them being scum. Imagine someone literally dies and you go to a funeral. If someone stays quiet means he's grieving, but if someone says "I'm sorry for your loss" it means he's glad the person died? I me use logic. There's a chance? Of course, but it's not a definite scumtell.

WIFOM. This is scummy. Of course there's a chance that it isn't a tell in this situation, but it highly likely is. In regards to your funeral analogy, you aren't say "oh no, we're all going to die!" but rather "oh, yay, this is great!". Scum tend to try and blend in by commenting "yay" on the good kills and "oh no" on the bad kills.

You're misunderstanding my post. I meant "from /my POV/ tgk is the best lynch#. I wasn't saying "oh, tgk will die anyways, might as well vote for him".

but it's really hard for me to see anyone besides tgk being lynched.

?

 

[Squirtle Squad]

In luis' defence that post when Miyami said she could return the evidence did arouse some suspicion to me also, just haven't been around to call it.

Thanks @bbninjas will check that later when I'm home from work

For now though ##vote: Luispipe

 

[Luispipe8]

Only scum read posts in absolutes

Celever confirmed Sith? (?) nvm, wait for my game for that.

But the buddying with Robin is definitely something to keep in mind. If either flips scum, the other one has high chance (but not an absolute... ) of being one as well.

Scum tend to try and blend in by commenting "yay" on the good kills and "oh no" on the bad kills.

Bolded. From my past, what, 4-5 games? you've seen that I don't really care about WIFOM, or AtE, or stuff like that. Not all WIFOM ar AtE is scummy, and not all scum use WIFOM or AtE. Still WIFOM? Sure, if you say so. But true nonetheless. If you think I'm scum just because WIFOM then go ahead. I've no way to stop you. But doubt the rest will follow.

?

Already explained. Can't see what you don't get.

 

[Camoclone]

For now though ##vote: Luispipe

Why?

 

[VinculumStellarum]

Just read through the Celever case, and it seems really believable. For now, I feel comfortable placing my vote here.

##VOTE: Celever

 

[thegrovylekid]

Where'd you get that quote from? Am I forgetting something?

Did nobody read my flip...?

Nah, Celever was suggesting a hypothetical situation when he asked so the hosts didn't have to confirm anything. (which is a townie thing tbh)


Uh, no. Those speculation posts continued to speculate on which roles are scum and blah blah far after Luis got answered iirc. And, lol, apparently I'm hiding information again. xD


Where did this vote come from? ?_?


Yeah, no. You are relying faaaar too much on role flavour and gambly things (i.e. that safe claim list by King X) , hence some of my suspicions for you.

I'm activating my ability.

##UNVOTE: Camoclone
##VOTE: scattered mind

 

[Skyleaf2000]

After reading both the Celever and Luis cases, I feel inclined to put this as my vote, at least temporarily.
##VOTE: Luispipe8

 

[quakingpunch73]

Day 2 Vote Count #1
Votes are listed in chronological order.
Names are listed in alphabetical order.
The majority for a lynch is 10.
The player with the most votes is tagged.
This vote count does not include thegrovlyekid’s heap of votes, particularly these ones:

##VOTE:Celever

##UNVOTE: Celever

##VOTE: Camoclone

##UNVOTE: Camoclone

##VOTE: grantm1999

##UNVOTE: grantm1999

##VOTE: Miyami~~

##UNVOTE: Miyami~~

##VOTE: Scattered Mind

##UNVOTE: Scattered Mind

##VOTE: PikaMasterJesi

##UNVOTE: PikaMasterJesi

##VOTE: King Xerneas

##UNVOTE: King Xerneas

##VOTE: Squirtle Squad

##UNVOTE: Squirtle Squad

##VOTE: Reinforce

##UNVOTE: Reinforce

##VOTE: bbninjas

##UNvOTE: bbninjas

##VOTE: simsands

##UNVOTE: simsands

##VOTE: PMJ

##UNVOTE: PMJ

##VOTE: GM DracLord

##UNVOTE: GM DracLord

##VOTE: Robin Aisaga

##UNVOTE: Robin Aisaga

##VOTE: Skyleaf2000

##UNVOTE: Skyleaf2000

Whoops, forgot some:


##VOTE: Luispipe8

##UNVOtE: Luispipe8

##VOTE: xdoggerx

##UNVOTE: xdoggerx

##VOTE: Jabberwock

##UNCOTE: Jabberwock

bbninjas 1 : Celever (vote)
Camoclone 1: bbninjas (vote) l [/s]thegrovylekid (vote)[/s]
Celever 0: Camoclone (vote) l thegrovylekid (vote) | PikaMasterJesi (vote)
King Xerneas 0: Camoclone (vote)
@Luispipe8 4: bbninjas (vote) | Camoclone (vote) | Squirtle Squad (vote) | Skyleaf2000 (vote)
Miyami 1: Robin Aisaga (vote) l Grantm1999 (vote)
PMJ 0 : bbninjas (vote) l
Robin Aisaga 1: PMJ (vote)
Scattered mind 1 : thegrovylekid (vote)
simsands 0: thegrovylekid (vote)
Skyleaf2000 0 : PMJ (vote) l Camoclone (vote) l

Not Voting: GM Draclord l Jabberwock l King Xerneas l Luispipe8 l Miyami l reinforce l Robin Aisaga l scattered mind l xDoggerx

The day ends in 91 hours.

 

[quakingpunch73]

Day 2 Vote Count #1
Votes are listed in chronological order.
Names are listed in alphabetical order.
The majority for a lynch is 10.
The player with the most votes is tagged.
This vote count does not include thegrovlyekid’s heap of votes, particularly these ones:

##VOTE:Celever

##UNVOTE: Celever

##VOTE: Camoclone

##UNVOTE: Camoclone

##VOTE: grantm1999

##UNVOTE: grantm1999

##VOTE: Miyami~~

##UNVOTE: Miyami~~

##VOTE: Scattered Mind

##UNVOTE: Scattered Mind

##VOTE: PikaMasterJesi

##UNVOTE: PikaMasterJesi

##VOTE: King Xerneas

##UNVOTE: King Xerneas

##VOTE: Squirtle Squad

##UNVOTE: Squirtle Squad

##VOTE: Reinforce

##UNVOTE: Reinforce

##VOTE: bbninjas

##UNvOTE: bbninjas

##VOTE: simsands

##UNVOTE: simsands

##VOTE: PMJ

##UNVOTE: PMJ

##VOTE: GM DracLord

##UNVOTE: GM DracLord

##VOTE: Robin Aisaga

##UNVOTE: Robin Aisaga

##VOTE: Skyleaf2000

##UNVOTE: Skyleaf2000

Whoops, forgot some:


##VOTE: Luispipe8

##UNVOtE: Luispipe8

##VOTE: xdoggerx

##UNVOTE: xdoggerx

##VOTE: Jabberwock

##UNCOTE: Jabberwock

bbninjas 1 : Celever (vote)
Camoclone 0: bbninjas (vote) l thegrovylekid (vote)
Celever 0: Camoclone (vote) l thegrovylekid (vote) | PikaMasterJesi (vote)
King Xerneas 0: Camoclone (vote)
@Luispipe8 4: bbninjas (vote) | Camoclone (vote) | Squirtle Squad (vote) | Skyleaf2000 (vote)
Miyami 1: Robin Aisaga (vote) l Grantm1999 (vote)
PMJ 0 : bbninjas (vote) l
Robin Aisaga 1: PMJ (vote)
Scattered mind 1 : thegrovylekid (vote)
simsands 0: thegrovylekid (vote)
Skyleaf2000 0 : PMJ (vote) l Camoclone (vote) l
Not Voting: GM Draclord l Jabberwock l King Xerneas l Luispipe8 l Miyami l reinforce l Robin Aisaga l scattered mind l xDoggerx

The day ends in 91 hours.

The formatting on the one above it is messed up, here's the actual count.

 

[thegrovylekid]

Camo has 1 vote on him but nobody is voting for. Is this accurate?

##UNVOTE: scattered mind
##VOTE: grantm1999

 

[quakingpunch73]

Camo has 1 vote on him but nobody is voting for. Is this accurate?

##UNVOTE: scattered mind
##VOTE: grantm1999

Fixed!

 

[Camoclone]

I'm not as confident about Luis as I am about Celever. His scum gameplay is very similar to his town game and it can be very hard to differentiate them. He is scummy no matter his alignment. That's not to say that he isn't an extremely viable lynch, he is.

##UNVOTE: LUISPIPE8
##VOTE: CELEVER

 

[Jabberwock]

Good point.

##UNVOTE: Celever

Did nobody read my flip...?

I'm activating my ability.

##UNVOTE: Camoclone
##VOTE: scattered mind

I'm thoroughly confused by these two posts. I know tgk's confotown, so he must have a legitimate reason. I'd love to hear it.

Yup, was about to.

Anyways, Jabber is still pinging my scumdar. Can anyone say that this how he normally plays? A bit floaty, make some comment and then leaving again, half-hearted scum hunting? This post put him right into my sights again.

I can't speak for others, but for what it's worth, me "making some comment and then leaving again" is due to school. I don't post as often as some do, I know, but I'm trying as much as I can to scumhunt.

Maybe, which game?

Melee, I think. I'll go back and find the quote in a sec.

I'm still not convinced simsands isn't scum, even after that notedrop. tbh I don't actually see all that much in the notedrop that hasn't been said at one time or another. He's already been accused of tunnelling and fishing, and the backpedals to an extent.
And forgive me, but I don't see any obvious contradictions. Granted, I might've missed them in the load of text, though.

And bb was surprisingly ready to agree to sim's case. It took you four minutes to read through all of that and have it convince you that Cel's a decent lynch? It's taken me ten to skim through it a few times and get a general idea of what sim's charging Celever with, and I still don't agree with a lot of it.

Not entirely sure where to place my vote yet. I'm not feeling confident about either lynch. :/

 

[Camoclone]

And bb was surprisingly ready to agree to sim's case. It took you four minutes to read through all of that and have it convince you that Cel's a decent lynch? It's taken me ten to skim through it a few times and get a general idea of what sim's charging Celever with, and I still don't agree with a lot of it.

Most people reading and paying attention to the game know what is being referenced as Simsands wasn't the only one to note it.

 

[Luispipe8]

I'm not as confident about Luis as I am about Celever. His scum gameplay is very similar to his town game and it can be very hard to differentiate them. He is scummy no matter his alignment. That's not to say that he isn't an extremely viable lynch, he is.

##UNVOTE: LUISPIPE8
##VOTE: CELEVER

IIRC the only times I've been scum were Haunted Water's side game (where I technically wasn't given the affiliation madness) and another one where I got lynched for playing exactly the same way I've ever played. There's really no "scum meta" from me to compare.

 

[Celever]

I will need to go through the @simsands case properly on a computer, but already from reading through it on my phone I can see that my posts are being misconstrued:
"Celever tells us we need to be suspicious of new players"
I have never done this. I'm the biggest defender of new players on this site because it helps the community more if they want to stick around.

Also, contradictions with reads when there are lots of posts between those two reads aren't actually contradictions. It just means your read has changed, lol.

I think that Jabber has raised a super good point with his case on bb reading that in 4 minutes. It took me at least 10 to read through it myself, and bbninjas hasn't been reading me as scum before that post. Possibly OMGUS, possibly adding pressure to his buddy's case... probably not town. My vote remains.

Most people reading and paying attention to the game know what is being referenced as Simsands wasn't the only one to note it.

Jabber didn't say that he checked back through the thread to confirm what simsands said about me. He said that it took him, like me, 10 minutes to simply think back and try and place his accusations -- and I made the posts, so I remember them.

 

[thegrovylekid]

##UNVOTE: grantm1999
##VOTE: PikaMasterJesi

I'm not too sold on either case, to be honest. Both of them seem shaky at best.

 

[Celever]

OK, I'm going to respond to noteworthy scumtells and point out where simsands has got the meaning of the post wrong in bold:

So, the long awaited Celever case. I've taken some notes on Celever's posts yesterday. It's a bit long...

Spoiler

Calls out Jesi for dumbtelling
You're misinterpreting "pointing out" as calling out. If I were calling her out, I would have placed a vote. I was helping her play, not trying to force a case out of nothing.
Tells us we need to be suspicious of new players
Never have I done this, at least since becoming a mod and getting a better perspective of the state of the site. New players are our future, we need to help them get into the game wherever we can -- not lynch them.
Criticizes EM for talking about anime
Nono, criticises EM for making exclusively posts about fluff. I can't be any more clear with this lol.
Votes TGK for backpedaling (Forgets ##)
Revotes TGK
You're making it seem like tunnelling. "Revoting" never occurred; I only voted for him once, I just screwed up the formatting when doing so.
Asks bb why he put future reference on Celevers faulty vote
Asks again
More pressure on bb
Votes bb for not explaining the future reference
Tells bb to stop hiding stuff
bb needs to be lynched
Defends his case on bb
His case on bb isn't role fish
Says it's very unlikely that bb's role has anything to do with why he doesn't want to explain the future reference
There is no townie reason for bb to post something somewhat obscure without providing reasoning
More about bb needing to post his thougths
bb should share all his reasoning with the town
Doesn't know bb's alignment for sure
Yes, I have made a lot of posts about bb. This is calls pressure, and I do it every game. So does Camo. It's pretty much our jobs on this site early on in the game. I attack more experienced players, he tries to force lynches on new players. It's fine if you've got a problem with my playstyle, but that doesn't make me scum, and my playstyle is a hell of a lot better than Camo's for the future of this site. Tunnelling isn't always bad, and these points were all made throughout the rest of this list with plenty of posts on other players inbetween. Therefore, it's not really even tunnelling -- it's just keeping on a great deal of pressure. This isn't scummy, this is trying to find a slip or make a player crack, which is the only way town ever gets results and is the foundation of all of our future cases.
There are probably scum on TGK's wagon
Wants to know why everyone's voting TGK
Don't you agree with this? I mean, this was the topic of the first couple posts on Day 2. Wanting people to post reasoning for their votes is definitely a good thing. :U
Calls out people for random votes after RVS
Again, this is good. Generally in a case you only include the bad stuff, because especially when you don't have conclusions, it's hard to know what you think is meant to be scummy.
Is getting bad vibes from Robin and TGK
Major defense of Robin when TGK votes him (Right after saying he got bad vibes from Robin)
First of all, I cut a few generic and un-noteworthy posts between these, so it's not as sudden as it appears. But anyway, I wasn't defending Robin -- I was being critical of TGK's case. There's a different. "Vibes" can't be personified, whereas TGK took those vibes of the general thread and tried to materialise a forced lynch on him. IIRC, Robin wasn't guilty of most of TGK's case, and what he did do was pure speculation. As such, I attacked the case. A by-product of this is hypothetically also defending Robin, but only if you're reaching.
Tells Robin to ignore Camo
Camo's tactics push lynches, not scum lynches
Mentions why he's not arguing with Camo
Camo's case on him is only speculation
Never interacted with Camo last game thanks to dimensions (They were in the same one)
Accuses Camo for pushing blame onto him
This happens every game. Camo denies all responsibility for any arguments that occur between us, which is impossible when there are two sides and I usually try to avoid them wherever possible as it's incredibly distracting. I had a memory lapse on us being in the same dimension Day 1 last game (because he never talked) but that's not a scumtell so much as me just being derpy. I also always tell new players to ignore Camo's tunnelling on them because, as is quoted there, Camo's tactics push lynches -- not necessarily scum lynches. Sometimes those two things just coincide.

Personally I don't recall saying that Camo's case on me is only speculation, because he never actually posted a case.
Camo is scum for not being scum recently (Camo was scum more recently than Celever)
This is terrible logic which I would never use. You're misconstruing the posts again.
We need to go easy on new players (Robin)
Yup.
Anything can be turned into a scumtell by an experienced player
Yup.
Votes TGK after his claim, since we have nothing to lose
Yup.
Tunneling isn't scummy early day 1
Yup.
Asks Xerneas for thoughts
His post (To Xerneas) was just fluff, don't read into it
The first post here was made as soon as he subbed into the game. Obviously it was just some really bad humour.
Asks TGK if his mason partners are definitely town
We get confos for lynching TGK
Asks TGK for a role claim
Says that he should have sense to cut unmentioned abilities out of his claim after Camo says TGK shouldn't fully claim
Posting full reads is too early
Yup.
Thinks bb is exaggerating what Celever said about players posting reads when asked
And do you not?
Admits that he was exaggerating himself
This is the art of pressuring. I wasn't exaggerating to a major degree, but for example just using "you are" instead of "you could be" raises the amount of pressure and is slight hyperbole.
Players have every right to not answer any possible role fish (Which as Celever has been so certain about, isn't the case with bb)
bb's posts aren't relevant when he's exaggerating
I don't think I used the word relevant so much as noteworthy. If bb is trying to prove a point through childish exaggeration, it's not worth giving them attention. His "defense" was just taking what I said to him and being ridiculously stupid with trying to turn that case back around. In other words, he never did defend himself.
Shouldn't need to post disclaimers
Only scum read posts in absolutes
Both true.
Says he's been sharing thoughts on all players
I don't think I said all so much as "a wide variety" of players, which as we can see from this post is very true.
We pretty much know we're lynching TGK
Tells EM to contribute
Some defense of EM
Disagrees with TGK's case on EM, he should make a better case or focus on someone else
Defending EM
Tells EM to contribute again
This is the second time you said I defended EM, but I cut where you said I "mildly defended" him earlier. I'm not sure I know what you're talking about. I've been complimentary of his play last game, but not this time around since it's all been fluff. The amount of "defends" and "attacks" you've got me doing to EM throughout this post means that one of them is wrong or I'm behaving incredibly erratically. I'm gonna go for the former, and that's referring to the defending aspect.
Asks TGK for thoughts on Jabber
Dismisses those thoughts
Again, sounds way worse than it is! His case was incredibly speculatory and had more reaches. I disregarded it because he was again trying his hardest to push a bad lynch.
Jesi's post sounds coached
Tells Robin not to lurk. Asks who he wants to vote
Asks who he doesn't want to vote
Says he doesn't care who Robin wants to vote
Asks morda if he can post something of more content
Doesn't care if he gets stuff wrong
Speculates about TGK's ability
TGK is the best lynch
Otherwise lynch EM for not posting
Suggests that Maya claims Pearl
Asks bb what he means with the masons claiming
Asks Jesi why she wants to post fluff
Says he's scum
Says above post was sarcasm after I vote him
Says he needed to clarify as he thought I was confused
Camo is bluffing about this being off
Agrees with Jabber that I seem scummy. Says he was waiting for someone else to point it out
Votes me thinking I want to lynch SS
Realizes I was talking about Jabber
Asks me for a case on him
Thinks TGK is town

We start off with the regular RVS stuff. Some focus on TGK because of the d20 joke. Then bb makes his future reference post which makes Celever drop everything and start focusing completely on him, almost dismissing every other case that starts to pop up. He eventually mentions getting bad vibes from TGK and Robin, but almost immediately afterwards starts buddying with Robin. His focus on bb continues along some minor squabbles with Camo, until TGK's claim. Seemingly giving up on bb at this point (And later on apparently has forgotten about it), he starts trying to get info out of the players, but still continues arguing with bb for a while. Then towards the end of the day, we get to the episode where Celever claims scum, then places a somewhat OMGUS-y vote on me when I vote him for it.

From his posts, I can see the following things:

• Tunneling
• Contradictions
• Some clever backpedals
• Role-fishing
• Buddying
• Too quick to dismiss some cases

And as Camo has pointed out, he seems very eager to lead from time to time.

Some plus points though, he is trying to make people contribute and has given town at least one or two good ideas.

I got some of the way there. I'm gonna go to school now, but I've poked a lot of holes in the post already TBF. The fact that I can see he's already brought up the joke "I'm scum" post which I seem to do in just about every game is another good example of how much he's reaching.

Right now, I don't care about what simsands has to say, because he made the case (though I'd like to see a response to this post in time). And whatever Camo says won't be developed or appropriately explained, because it's Camo. I'm probably gonna get called out for tunnelling again, but @bbninjas: rationalise your vote.