The game is changing - is it getting out of hand?

Pokeman said:
As I said, the card game sucks. Ain't nobody got time for that.


Plus everyone is agreeing which is good, I am glad that everyone realized how ruined this game is :p
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It doesnt sound like you like card games in general. Just based off your other interest, I dont think you would find what your looking for in ANY game of this nature.

Card Slinger J said:
You guys are making it sound worse than what it already is, at least for me the Pokemon TCG isn't exactly to the point where I want to rage quit in almost every game like I did when I used to play Yu-Gi-Oh! and Naruto CCG competitively. Riskbreakers, If Break Rides really are balanced in Vanguard then why are alot of Japanese players quitting the game over the new mechanic?

In relation to that according to a rumor I heard on YouTube, people are saying that Bushiroad is using Break Rides as a balancer for all decks to end the need for their Restricted List which doesn't make any sense IMO. That's basically trying to justify the use of cards with terrible power creep only to get rid of a set of rules that limits that kind of power creep in the first place. In other words If this rumor is true then Bushiroad is being hypocritical. -__-
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Yeah I agree. I used to play YGO and in YGO your dead in 2-3 turns no matter what you do. They keep making stupid crap, their rotation system (the ban list is terrible) and most people who played were a waste of a human being (yes the morale of that game was THAT bad).

I like Pokemon since theres always strategy in a game, even if deck construction gets a bit stale at times the game itself makes you think. People say "oh well its just energy acceleration" yeah but you still have to get 6 prizes in a game and thats not as easy as people make it. Its possible to get easy wins off donking people, but against most good players the game last a decent amount of while.

And honestly I have no idea what people want. Evolutions either rule the game or big basics do, you cant have your cake and eat it. Its not really about the type of card but more about what do the cards do. You see Klinklang, Empoleon, Blastoise, Garchomp, and Hydregion all obtain success at some point and its because their all solid cards. Your still seeing new evolutions top, they arent that dead.

I agree that the game needs to be a bit slower and at some point the next rotation will change that, but this season hasnt been that stagant and I dont know what people really want to complain about outside of 1 turn donks (probably the only real bad thing about the game).
 
The biggest problem I have is that the game has become "which EX should I use?". Every time someone posts an idea for a different deck type, it's always considered bad because it can't keep up with EXes. Either that or they need an EX just to keep up. Any chance a rouge deck has is taken away by the ease and power of cards like Mewtwo, Keldeo, and Darkrai. Virbank/laser had potential to create some interesting decks, but all those are considered "fun league decks". It seems that laser decks aren't considered competitive unless they use Darkrai. As if we needed another Darkrai deck.

EXs in themselves aren't bad. In fact, I actually like the idea of the aforementioned Darkrai lazer deck and want to try one out myself. But they should not be the end all or be all. Especially since EXes are the most rare cards in the set.
 
ExcaliDrose said:
Pokeman said:
As I said, the card game sucks. Ain't nobody got time for that.


Plus everyone is agreeing which is good, I am glad that everyone realized how ruined this game is :p
Click to expand...

It doesnt sound like you like card games in general. Just based off your other interest, I dont think you would find what your looking for in ANY game of this nature.

Card Slinger J said:
You guys are making it sound worse than what it already is, at least for me the Pokemon TCG isn't exactly to the point where I want to rage quit in almost every game like I did when I used to play Yu-Gi-Oh! and Naruto CCG competitively. Riskbreakers, If Break Rides really are balanced in Vanguard then why are alot of Japanese players quitting the game over the new mechanic?

In relation to that according to a rumor I heard on YouTube, people are saying that Bushiroad is using Break Rides as a balancer for all decks to end the need for their Restricted List which doesn't make any sense IMO. That's basically trying to justify the use of cards with terrible power creep only to get rid of a set of rules that limits that kind of power creep in the first place. In other words If this rumor is true then Bushiroad is being hypocritical. -__-
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Yeah I agree. I used to play YGO and in YGO your dead in 2-3 turns no matter what you do. They keep making stupid crap, their rotation system (the ban list is terrible) and most people who played were a waste of a human being (yes the morale of that game was THAT bad).

I like Pokemon since theres always strategy in a game, even if deck construction gets a bit stale at times the game itself makes you think. People say "oh well its just energy acceleration" yeah but you still have to get 6 prizes in a game and thats not as easy as people make it. Its possible to get easy wins off donking people, but against most good players the game last a decent amount of while.

And honestly I have no idea what people want. Evolutions either rule the game or big basics do, you cant have your cake and eat it. Its not really about the type of card but more about what do the cards do. You see Klinklang, Empoleon, Blastoise, Garchomp, and Hydregion all obtain success at some point and its because their all solid cards. Your still seeing new evolutions top, they arent that dead.

I agree that the game needs to be a bit slower and at some point the next rotation will change that, but this season hasnt been that stagant and I dont know what people really want to complain about outside of 1 turn donks (probably the only real bad thing about the game).
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No I don't anymore, I moved on from pokemon, I found it fun and all for like 12 years and I used to win tons of big tournaments and probably was one of the best players Green Bay has, but the game just got less interesting with little to zero strategy, besides energy acceleration/beat down. With that kind of format, I'd probably twiddling my thumbs more fun than that.
 
pokedan24 said:
The biggest problem I have is that the game has become "which EX should I use?". Every time someone posts an idea for a different deck type, it's always considered bad because it can't keep up with EXes. Either that or they need an EX just to keep up. Any chance a rouge deck has is taken away by the ease and power of cards like Mewtwo, Keldeo, and Darkrai. Virbank/laser had potential to create some interesting decks, but all those are considered "fun league decks". It seems that laser decks aren't considered competitive unless they use Darkrai. As if we needed another Darkrai deck.

EXs in themselves aren't bad. In fact, I actually like the idea of the aforementioned Darkrai lazer deck and want to try one out myself. But they should not be the end all or be all. Especially since EXes are the most rare cards in the set.
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Its like that every format though since in modified your only allowed a certain set of cards. Whatever is the most rare and powerful cards at that time is what people will play. In HGSS all you saw were primes, in Diamond/Pearl all you saw was LV.X. Every format has a certain theme to it and this format it is the EX's. Its always changing every set, we saw Garchomp and Empoleon be good for a while and they werent EX heavy.


Pokeman said:
ExcaliDrose said:
It doesnt sound like you like card games in general. Just based off your other interest, I dont think you would find what your looking for in ANY game of this nature.


Yeah I agree. I used to play YGO and in YGO your dead in 2-3 turns no matter what you do. They keep making stupid crap, their rotation system (the ban list is terrible) and most people who played were a waste of a human being (yes the morale of that game was THAT bad).

I like Pokemon since theres always strategy in a game, even if deck construction gets a bit stale at times the game itself makes you think. People say "oh well its just energy acceleration" yeah but you still have to get 6 prizes in a game and thats not as easy as people make it. Its possible to get easy wins off donking people, but against most good players the game last a decent amount of while.

And honestly I have no idea what people want. Evolutions either rule the game or big basics do, you cant have your cake and eat it. Its not really about the type of card but more about what do the cards do. You see Klinklang, Empoleon, Blastoise, Garchomp, and Hydregion all obtain success at some point and its because their all solid cards. Your still seeing new evolutions top, they arent that dead.

I agree that the game needs to be a bit slower and at some point the next rotation will change that, but this season hasnt been that stagant and I dont know what people really want to complain about outside of 1 turn donks (probably the only real bad thing about the game).
Click to expand...

No I don't anymore, I moved on from pokemon, I found it fun and all for like 12 years and I used to win tons of big tournaments and probably was one of the best players Green Bay has, but the game just got less interesting with little to zero strategy, besides energy acceleration/beat down. With that kind of format, I'd probably twiddling my thumbs more fun than that.
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Yeah but lets be realistic, how much strategy are you really expecting? Previous formats didnt offer any serious real time strategy either. In HGSS and Diamond/Pearl formats you had Pokemon that didnt cost any energies, which isnt much different than now.

Its ok if you personally lost interest for whatever reason, but the game hasnt changed much compared to what it was before outside of less evolutions. Theres still decks with just as low energy count, same types of supporters, same types of effects, its probably because the game is just getting repetitive of why your bored.
 
Card Slinger J said:
You guys are making it sound worse than what it already is, at least for me the Pokemon TCG isn't exactly to the point where I want to rage quit in almost every game like I did when I used to play Yu-Gi-Oh! and Naruto CCG competitively. Riskbreakers, If Break Rides really are balanced in Vanguard then why are alot of Japanese players quitting the game over the new mechanic?

In relation to that according to a rumor I heard on YouTube, people are saying that Bushiroad is using Break Rides as a balancer for all decks to end the need for their Restricted List which doesn't make any sense IMO. That's basically trying to justify the use of cards with terrible power creep only to get rid of a set of rules that limits that kind of power creep in the first place. In other words If this rumor is true then Bushiroad is being hypocritical. -__-
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First off, we will be in agreement that there is no saving Yu-Gi-Oh! Konami designs cards ten times worse than TPCI. Let's get that out of the way. This also brings me to my next point. Those Japanese that quit Vanguard over Break Rides? They're mostly just the butthurt DOtE bandwagoners who are just pissed that their old deck can't play anymore. If the Japanese could endure the brokenness of Yugi, they should be able to endure Vanguard and Pokemon. I also have tested Genesis via proxies. Pulling out the Break Ride and the next G3 isn't as easy as it sounds like.

No one even plays Naruto here so i won't give a rat's ass about that game.


As for the issue about Pokemon, Rare Candy should NOT be unnerfed. Killing off the basics is the only way you can beat those broken Stage 2s. Basically, you trade off the brokenness by letting it setup first. If there is something Pokemon did right, it is to retain Catcher to balance these Stage 2s from overrunning everyone. Also, I am in agreement with most people here that Pokemon especially in this format relies more on luck and money (deck) rather than skill. Most of the losses I have incurred was due to "Supporter droughts" and getting "N to 1" without being able to topdeck a supporter.
 
Have you seen some of the new Japanese Spoilers for Spiral Force and Thunder Knuckle recently? There's a new Supporter coming out called Ghetsis that has your opponent shuffle all Item cards in their hand to their deck and you draw a card for each one shuffled in. It might help against Supporter drought I suppose, but the downside is If they have a Skyla in hand they can get back one of those Item cards while being forced to ditch one that they originally wanted to tutor up.

If you're really having problems topdecking a Supporter or getting Supporter drought then why not run 3-4 Skyla? She's just that good of a staple in most decks. There is still some skill left in the Pokemon TCG it's just that it seems like luck and the cost of specific cards might overshadow that aspect of it. As for Pokeman's reasoning about why the current format is bad as it was mentioned earlier, he's just burned out from how repetitive it is. As for me I don't get to play Pokemon TCG nearly as much as I used to as I wait out on the chances to do so.

As for Vanguard, I don't think it was DOtE bandwagoning as to why the Japanese players are quitting it was mainly due to the power creep of Crossrides, then the Restricted List, and now the power creep of Break Rides that were the final straw for them. They didn't like the direction the TCG itself was heading toward and I guess to them they sort of see it becoming Yu-Gi-Oh! 2.0 and who can really blame them? Can you imagine riding a Solitary Liberator, Gancelot on top of a Solitary Liberator, Gancelot with a full board? Bad End Dragger is probably more overpowered than Gancelot is and it's in a Clan that goes balls to wall Aggro that's hard to block against being Spike Brothers.

Japanese players actually learned from the brokeness of Yu-Gi-Oh! although the ironic thing about that is that the American and European playerbase hasn't. They still play as though it's the best thing since Magic. Alot of Japanese players who used to play Yu-Gi-Oh! have already moved on to other TCG's especially Duel Masters since they are in their 400th+ expansion right now since the game got discontinued in the U.S. in favor of Kaijudo up to now. What does that say about the TCG demographic in Japan compared to America and Europe? Ironically Magic isn't even that popular of a TCG in Japan anymore because of the robust amount of TCG's being played over there. There's more options to choose from there compared to over here where we have a select few.
 
I am a regular in top tables when I played Pokemon often competitively, you think I did not already put all the supporters I could stuff in a deck? There's always that horrid luck that N always gives you. Speaking of which, Ghetsis is another prime example of a card which can be broken but is still less broken than N.

The only skill left in Pokemon is when you're playing Basic EX toolbox.

All your scenariors in Vanguard are very hypothetical and in practice (I have done Liberator testing mind you) it's not as easy as you make it out to be.
 
RE: The game is way out of hand!

Teal said:
YoungNes said:
bring back mewtwo lv x
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While I would love that (as long at it is a stage 2) it would completely break the current game. At least every EX deck would need to run Garbodor. lol
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Every SP deck had to run a Mewtwo counter, and it was far from broken.
 
Riskbreakers said:
I am a regular in top tables when I played Pokemon often competitively, you think I did not already put all the supporters I could stuff in a deck? There's always that horrid luck that N always gives you. Speaking of which, Ghetsis is another prime example of a card which can be broken but is still less broken than N.
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I don't doubt you put all the supporters you could stuff in a deck, while yes getting N-locked can happen every once in awhile and it might have happened on some occassions when I played although it's been a long while I get what you're saying.

Riskbreakers said:
The only skill left in Pokemon is when you're playing Basic EX toolbox.
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I dunno, I've been checking out some The Top Cut streams on YouTube for Pokemon Regionals 2013 in Mississippi and there still seems to be some variety in decks being played. Garbodor still sees some play although aside from the metagame decks in the current format there's not much room for originality sadly to say...
 
What I actually meant was it actually takes more skill to play a deck that revolves around the Basic EX toolbox core rather than those Stage 2 decks which are brainless as bleep.

I get N-locked all the time even pre-BW on, and post-BW on. There are times that I do topdeck the Juniper out of that 1-card N but banking on that just doesn't feel right.
 
Riskbreakers said:
What I actually meant was it actually takes more skill to play a deck that revolves around the Basic EX toolbox core rather than those Stage 2 decks which are brainless as bleep.

I get N-locked all the time even pre-BW on, and post-BW on. There are times that I do topdeck the Juniper out of that 1-card N but banking on that just doesn't feel right.
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As much as an N to one hurts on the receiving side, it's actually a vital card in keeping the game "balanced." I know big basics are dominating, but without this crucial comeback card, speed decks would be OP. It would be virtually impossible for slower (stage 2) decks to come back after being down a couple of prizes.
 
Slowbro said:
Riskbreakers said:
What I actually meant was it actually takes more skill to play a deck that revolves around the Basic EX toolbox core rather than those Stage 2 decks which are brainless as bleep.

I get N-locked all the time even pre-BW on, and post-BW on. There are times that I do topdeck the Juniper out of that 1-card N but banking on that just doesn't feel right.
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As much as an N to one hurts on the receiving side, it's actually a vital card in keeping the game "balanced." I know big basics are dominating, but without this crucial comeback card, speed decks would be OP. It would be virtually impossible for slower (stage 2) decks to come back after being down a couple of prizes.
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Then print a card that penalizes Basics or EXs altogether. There can be a lot of comeback cards which cause disruption that does not resort to sacking. Besides, sudden death with N is just plain bull.
 
The closest thing the current format has to penalizing EX Pokemon is Sigilyph with Safeguard, regular Basics on the other hand not so much...
 
Well maybe in the last two sets they'll make "League" Pokemon which are cards used by the Gym Leaders or Pokemon League and have effects that penalize Pokemon EX. This gen's version of Pokemon SP. For example they can do double damage to Pokemon EX or send them to the discard pile if they have it in hand. Or take 4 prizes. But that might make things even worse!
 
Card Slinger J said:
The closest thing the current format has to penalizing EX Pokemon is Sigilyph with Safeguard, regular Basics on the other hand not so much...
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Lugia Ex with full plasma energy can take 3 prizes each time it KO's a Ex, potentially ending the game in 2 attacks

Personally I don't like running Ex because I run the risk of having the same thing done to me. When I make a deck at home to play with non-competitively with my friends I never add Ex's. First off I don't own that (just from what I pull), and secondly it would make one deck more powerful than another. Outside of tournaments I just like to play with all different types of strategy and make decks for every card type. I think that as long as the company creates new pokemon that evolve there are going to be interesting stage 2's.
 
I don't see the big deal, there is always a fun deck to play. I just play Darmaxitan with eels and just lmao.

Do I win tournys? No (I did go 4-2 at a BR :D). Do I lmao every time I do 250 damage to an ex or 600 damage to a mewtwo ex - you bet. ;)
 
Im sorry no offense to decent Vanguard players, but after all the nonsense that happened at my Pokemon league with them cussing and me stuck doing damage control with the PokeParents, (that and the fact that they are mostly all yugioh players transferring to Vanguard) I really don't want them around and I dont like the community :/

I'd rather have my "broken" format than be stuck in a room of yugioh thieves and people trying to rip little kids off :/
 
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