Discussion Possible Top 5 XY-On Decks

[RazorX_83]

Consistency is the issue. Double Aqua gets discarded, so you need more attachments in order to attack again, and there are probably better Supporters you could play in a turn rather than attaching a single energy from the discard. If you have had success with a TA Kyogre deck in your experience then more power to you, but I doubt that it should be given consideration in the metagame at large. Especially true since you haven't seen Beartic decks running rampant.

So far it has been just an idea I have been trying ever since my last deck (camerupt/Team magmas camerupt) failed. but if you would happen to have suggestions on how to build mine better I would love to hear them. My deck list is in the deck garage currently.

 

[Mega Adi]

Tell me what you guys would suggest for a new top 5 XY-On decks, make sure your suggestions are in order from best to worst. I appreciate all input!

 

[festizzio]

Consistency is the issue. Double Aqua gets discarded, so you need more attachments in order to attack again, and there are probably better Supporters you could play in a turn rather than attaching a single energy from the discard. If you have had success with a TA Kyogre deck in your experience then more power to you, but I doubt that it should be given consideration in the metagame at large. Especially true since you haven't seen Beartic decks running rampant.

I do agree with you, but to provide a counter-point, you can attach a water energy T1, use Team Aqua Admin to attach another T2 along with Double Aqua, then following turn another water and another Aqua Admin for consistent attacks from then on. It is possible, just very difficult and inconsistent.

 

[CruelBear]

I am in the process of making a good fire deck and Combustion blast charizard ex is probably the fastest and most powerful fire pokemon right now. It can hit 170 T1 which is not even that hard with vs seeker, blacksmith, battle compressor, DC, and Muscle band.
Laugh at me all you want, but think Delphox EX is not that bad. It could be a one of in fire decks.

Delphox EX could have its uses... But I'm talking about Delphox XY. I've been running it on PTCGO, and it's a surprisingly good deck even when very few decks right now have a fire weakness. It has two big strengths, one being that it has built in draw, which is even better than Empoleon's was imo. The second is that its damage scales up very well starting at 110 for 1 turn's worth of attachments (regular attachment and Blacksmith). If Mega Sceptile does become popular, that 110 base damage is just perfect to OHKO it.

It does have its downside though, it struggles against an early Mega Rayquaza if you can't get more than 2 basics out by then.

 

[bbninjas]

What made Empoleon really viable, imo, was Archie. Unfortunately Delphox doesn't really have that, although I could imagine a decent Teammates (Candy + Delphox) engine to get Stage 2s out consistently.

 

[Lanstar]

I've been thinking...

One type of deck that could become a sleeper in this format could be a Beautifly variant of some kind. The strengths of Beautifly:

-Immune and super effective to the Primal Forms.
-Immune to EX's, which you'll see quite a lot of.
-Can combo well with Giant Plant Forest to get out pretty quickly.
-Zero Retreat Cost, in a Meta without Keldeo EX/Float stone.

Of course, the cons:

-100 damage cap.
-Grass-Double Colorless attack cost may be too much to accelerate.
-130 HP, so it's rather frail against many non-ex attackers.
-Hex Maniac easily puts it down.

The issue might be figuring out the best support with it. I'm thinking of pairing it with Raichu, but I'd need to run dual stadiums... Maybe doing M-Sceptile could work, or Miltank. Either way, I wouldn't underestimate this one surprising the format.

 

[CruelBear]

What made Empoleon really viable, imo, was Archie. Unfortunately Delphox doesn't really have that, although I could imagine a decent Teammates (Candy + Delphox) engine to get Stage 2s out consistently.

Can you explain the variants of Empoleon that have been around since long before Archie then? I've only seen Archie work in decks that aren't centered on Empoleon, like Night March. It's too inconsistent getting out 3-4 Empoleon using only Archie. Delphox, just like pre-Primal Clash Empoleon, can work just fine without cheating it out. I use a heavy line (4-2-4) and 4 Rare Candy. Ultra Ball, and soon Level Ball, make it easier, and once you get one Delphox out, you'll have almost no trouble getting out the rest. Teammates does help, but once you get out a Delphox you'll want to be using Blacksmith (Or Lysandre) most of the time.

 

[RedGyarados]

IMO Toad is not done yet. Toad/Manectric/Bats is good. Quaking punch is still arguably the best attack in format. Manectric finishes off weakened pokemon after some quaking punch and a bat drop. Assault Laser is so good (with tool on opponent) , it puts mega pokemons on an awkward position, with some bat drops and muscle band. And threatens your opponent to play their Rayquazas because of OHKO.

 

[bbninjas]

Can you explain the variants of Empoleon that have been around since long before Archie then? I've only seen Archie work in decks that aren't centered on Empoleon, like Night March. It's too inconsistent getting out 3-4 Empoleon using only Archie. Delphox, just like pre-Primal Clash Empoleon, can work just fine without cheating it out. I use a heavy line (4-2-4) and 4 Rare Candy. Ultra Ball, and soon Level Ball, make it easier, and once you get one Delphox out, you'll have almost no trouble getting out the rest. Teammates does help, but once you get out a Delphox you'll want to be using Blacksmith (Or Lysandre) most of the time.

I don't know too much about Empoleon pre-PRC, so I won't touch on it much. However, I'd imagine that the pace of the metagame back when Empoleon variants were viable was much slower to now. I'm not sure if you can run Empoleon without Archie and get away with it.

 

[Hukutus]

Can you explain the variants of Empoleon that have been around since long before Archie then? I've only seen Archie work in decks that aren't centered on Empoleon, like Night March. It's too inconsistent getting out 3-4 Empoleon using only Archie. Delphox, just like pre-Primal Clash Empoleon, can work just fine without cheating it out. I use a heavy line (4-2-4) and 4 Rare Candy. Ultra Ball, and soon Level Ball, make it easier, and once you get one Delphox out, you'll have almost no trouble getting out the rest. Teammates does help, but once you get out a Delphox you'll want to be using Blacksmith (Or Lysandre) most of the time.

Empoleon originates from Dark Explorers. The current meta is completely different with for example item locks preventing rare candy and such.

 

[Rakkis157]

Can you explain the variants of Empoleon that have been around since long before Archie then? I've only seen Archie work in decks that aren't centered on Empoleon, like Night March. It's too inconsistent getting out 3-4 Empoleon using only Archie. Delphox, just like pre-Primal Clash Empoleon, can work just fine without cheating it out. I use a heavy line (4-2-4) and 4 Rare Candy. Ultra Ball, and soon Level Ball, make it easier, and once you get one Delphox out, you'll have almost no trouble getting out the rest. Teammates does help, but once you get out a Delphox you'll want to be using Blacksmith (Or Lysandre) most of the time.

Back then, Empoleon was primarily used in decks with Dusknoir BCR and/or Miltank, due to how cheap it can attack for and the sheer Draw Power it has.

 

[Tropizard420]

Delphox EX could have its uses... But I'm talking about Delphox XY. I've been running it on PTCGO, and it's a surprisingly good deck even when very few decks right now have a fire weakness. It has two big strengths, one being that it has built in draw, which is even better than Empoleon's was imo. The second is that its damage scales up very well starting at 110 for 1 turn's worth of attachments (regular attachment and Blacksmith). If Mega Sceptile does become popular, that 110 base damage is just perfect to OHKO it.

It does have its downside though, it struggles against an early Mega Rayquaza if you can't get more than 2 basics out by then.

I knew what you were talking about, i was just throwing out my ideas on fire decks. laugh at me all you want, but you cannot really have a fire deck without at least a 2-2 pyroar line as a potential wall.

 

[Mega Adi]

So what do you guys think a top 5 XY-On list would be now, give your top 5 from best to worst. I appreciate all input!

 

[Rakkis157]

So what do you guys think a top 5 XY-On list would be now, give your top 5 from best to worst. I appreciate all input!

My answer is simple. I do not know.

I seriously do not know what to expect from the next rotation. On one hand with have Golurk with its 5 types and 120 damage to OHKO everything weak to it, and Vespiquen to utilize the Eeveelutions s well. Raichu is now less reliant on DCE thanks to Flareon, and Gourgeist Night March might be viable for the same reason. Vileplume is an looming threat, as is Giratina. M Ray may or may not struggle with more [R] and/or é Pokemon in the format. Primal Groudon may or may not see play...

It's just way to unpredictable this time around.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

TuxedoBlack: I agree that M Gardevoir EX will be considerably good in the new rotation. I would say tier 2 or maybe 3, but because dragon decks like Giratina EX/ Vileplume are going to be so good M Gardevoir EX will stand a chance competitively.

The facts that Level Ball will again be released; Xerneas can provide energy attachment acceleration; and the deck can 1HKO any Poké in the format today (after enough energy is in play) should make a strong case for a Tier 1- position at a minimum. Even GiraPlume (already nominated for Tier 1), can't even "out slug" it, IMO.

Playtesting will be fun this weekend.

 

[King of Dragons]

So what do you guys think a top 5 XY-On list would be now, give your top 5 from best to worst. I appreciate all input!

My Top 5 would be:

5: Siesmotoad/Bats or Raichu/Bats
Siesmotoad is probably gonna see less play do to Vileplume and M Sceptile but I think it will still see play with cards like
Hammers, Flare Grunt, and Crawdaunt for disruption and Lugia EX for attackers.

Raichu/Bats will still see strong play especially with Level Ball coming back but I think it will be expected and won't be as strong as it was in Nationals.

4: Giratina/Vileplume
Will see play no doubt with the amount of potential it has with Giant Plant Forest, Level Ball, Wally, DDE, Hammers, Hex Maniac, and Hydreigon EX.
However I think it will be expected as well if it becomes overhyped so I think it'll be another "Pyroar Deck"

3: Fairys (M Gard/Toolbox)
I think it'll be getting a big boost even without Max Potion. I mean Level Ball, Giratina EX hype, Super Scoop Up, Xerneas, Able to run Fighting and Fire Pokemon for Raichu and Bronzong.
The Toolbox Version will probably see more play because of the type advantage but M Gard will probably still be a decent option

2: M Rayquaza/Bronzong
If you want to play a deck that's has all-around good matchups against pretty much everything in the format M Ray will probably be the best option. It's Powerful, Swift, and Consisntent and can run lots of different things

1: Metal Variants
Why I say this is beyond me, I just think that Metal will be the best because
1. Good Against Toolbox/M Gard
2. Level Ball
and
3. Lots of Attackers (Aigeslash EX, Dialga EX, Heatran, etc.)

Honarable Mentions: MegaMan Variants, Primal Groudon Variants, Primal Kyorge Variants, Night March, Siesmotoad/Crawdaunt,
M Sceptile, Charizard EX, and M Ray/Reshiram

 

[Mimoso]

I can't actually believe Vespiquen isn't on that list yet: it only needs 1 energy, no retreat cost, usage of Unowns to fuel it, backed by Eeveelutions, great typing, awesome attack, great deck burn speed...you can't really name a deck better, more simple and effective than the Queen Bee. Even if it's biggest weakness is GiraPlume, that one is a really fragile deck that can be countered via either Wobbuffet, Hex Maniac, or a simple Lysandre. Queen is much more resilient.

 

[CruelBear]

Empoleon originates from Dark Explorers. The current meta is completely different with for example item locks preventing rare candy and such.

Seismitoad was probably Empoleon's biggest issue, but even then it was manageable. Even at States, where every other deck was Seismitoad, I didn't have too much trouble with it, and now it's losing HTL so I don't think it'll be as prevalent. Now of course, Empoleon is rotated, but Delphox is pretty similar. Seismitoad is harder for Delphox due to weakness, but should be less popular. The other item lock we're gaining, Vileplume, is one Lysandre away from death at any moment

Back then, Empoleon was primarily used in decks with Dusknoir BCR and/or Miltank, due to how cheap it can attack for and the sheer Draw Power it has.

Exactly. Toward the end, I switched Dusknoir for Greninja, and kept in Miltank, and it was brutal. The ability to do 170+ in one turn from one attachment was, surprising, to say the least. Delphox also utilizes Miltank, and maybe even better than Empoleon did. And Delphox's draw power is arguably better than Empoleon, essentially being a Shaymin every turn.

I knew what you were talking about, i was just throwing out my ideas on fire decks. laugh at me all you want, but you cannot really have a fire deck without at least a 2-2 pyroar line as a potential wall.

Uhhh. I fail to see how Pyroar is necessary for a fire deck in this metagame. He doesn't stop anything in Rayquaza or Groudon decks, so that's two major matchups where you have 4 useless cards.

Anyway, this is getting off topic.

Since it's hard to really predict for sure, I'll just give another option for top 5 in no particular order:

Rayquaza: Very quick, very powerful, it's hard to argue that it won't be a major threat.

Metal: Aegislash slows down Rayquaza decks, and Level Ball brings out that extra "level" of consistency

Mega Sceptile: It might take a little longer to see this deck refined, but I feel it could be hard/impossible to beat once it's set up if you have a deck that can't OHKO Mega Sceptile

Vespiquen: Everything that made Flareon good, and more. With Unown and Giant Plant Forest, I think this could be pretty terrifying.

Fairybox: It has the ability to run many different attackers, and by attaching every energy to a Malamar first, nearly every turn you have a 50% chance of your opponent's Pokemon staying asleep. Add in the fact that Level Ball helps get Aromatisse out so much quicker, and it could be much better this format.

I just think Delphox has a pretty good matchup against all of those but Rayquaza, so I'll be pushing for that if the format works out like this. But we'll see.

 

[squiggleblorg]

Surprised there has been so little mention of M-Gallade/Bats, just started playing around with it today and it is really quite good, can take 4-5 prizes at once with it, at first i thought it would be bad against M-Ray, since it's so fast. However Gallade can be quick to get ready and if you get set up well (which happens quite a lot) you can get the damage on Bronzongs & Altaria and end up taking 5 prizes over 2 turns, giving up 2 yourself generally, and taking out their energy supply.
Need to spend a bit more time with it though, but I can't think of anything off the top of my head from Ancient Origins that specifically hurts it, and it doesnt loose anything that can't be replaced with the rotation

 

[sonicjms]

I've been preping to play gardevoir-aromatise for XY on, max potion is replaced by super scoop up