Finished Mafia 53: Twilight's Kingdom

[Zone Q11]

Given this level of activity, is it ok to just hammer Luis and end the day? Does someone have something else to say?

None that I can't think of.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

None that I can't think of.

Hey both of you two are in the towncore so let's hear your thoughts on the PoE that wins us the game since working that out is a good use of the couple hours we have left.
@Mariano11887 @Zone Q11

 

[PMJ]

Day ends tomorrow, not today.

 

[Camoclone]

Given this level of activity, is it ok to just hammer Luis and end the day? Does someone have something else to say?

Yes just hammer.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

Yes just hammer.

"Should the townies get a chance to work together on a PoE and solve the game? Nah, they should just hammer."
Is where Camo tried to scumhunt or work on his own PoE or do town things today? No because he doesn't care about catching scum and doesn't want to give us clues for his flip after Cel and I have agreeed he should die. If he isn't lynched tomorrow I'll be so disappointed.
Only once we've agreed on some PoE should we ever hammer.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

Day 1 ISO of Nick AKA Luis Slot:

Spoiler: Nick Posts

I see you role fishing Keeper. I'm stupid but not that stupid
##Vote: Keeper of Night

Man, this is my sixth or seventh game, I've been scum twice before, I'm not gonna give in to your fishing. Besides, I'm on mobile. I saw the bait before anything else.

Maybe not, however, asking about farewell abilities and such puts me on edge of anything. My thought process was "asking to get info for plotting possibly"

The phrase was OMGUS I believe.

Although I see the reasoning behind the Jplap case I don't quite see the need to hammer him right now as he is the projected "lynch" already. The topic to turn to is hunting for possible d2 options which is impossible ATM as everyone has been so focused on Jplap. Not me trying to shift focus but thinking ahead is important.
##Unvote: Keeper of Night

Wait what just happened here...

Roz lynch day two, anyone? This post reeks of scum for me.

He is either misled by Jplap's meta or is maf trying to defend his teammate. Thats about it.

Leaning scum on NP as the only times I can recall tone being mentioned are when two people are going head to head or maf is completely frantic trying to keep a valuable member.

So we are either allowing a probable scum or an indie who we don't know the win condition of to live. I don't like it at all.

Alright it is a good (tough) choice.
##Vote: roz_the_eevee
Safest option ATM

Well, it seems people summed up what I was gonna say. Roz could be anti town very easily and therefor one of the best lynched early as he never denied indie role.

Yeah, roz, as much as I would like to keep you because you're still quite new here, you've dug yourself quite a hole that is harder to get out of than just saying, "I'm town." My boy is gonna stay.

**vote. Stupid mobile

^ I already confirmed this few times.
This is literaly my role.

This is my claim.

You'll have to quote from your role pm for us to believe you at this point.[/QUOTE]

That was weird but whatever

So now your assuming that bringing that up will help you out of your predicament as opposed to doing the logical thing of claiming from which would help you more in the long run if we decide that it is not a threat to town.

If roz had complied to quoting from his role pm we probably wouldn't be in a position where a tie is so possible. At this point roz is just as much a policy lynch as any past indie role. Five minutes left wagons definitely won't change now

Only mention of an alive player is Keeper and I'd want that reaction to say Keeper isn't scum but I was thinking that one already.

I also remembered this post which was terribly scummy and should be remembered with BB:

the whole case on Mariano started because he went on random.org and voted using a random number generator? That’s...interesting to say the least but I seriously think anyone who jumped on such a lame wagon should be put under some suspicion

 

[Camoclone]

"Should the townies get a chance to work together on a PoE and solve the game? Nah, they should just hammer."
Is where Camo tried to scumhunt or work on his own PoE or do town things today? No because he doesn't care about catching scum and doesn't want to give us clues for his flip after Cel and I have agreeed he should die. If he isn't lynched tomorrow I'll be so disappointed.
Only once we've agreed on some PoE should we ever hammer.

I’m not scared of you NP.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

Day 2/before he was revealed Luis ISO (this time there's not literally one interaction with a player whose alignment is in doubt so I'm deleting quotes or parts of quotes where he doesn't interact with alive non-confirmed players for convenience; will comment on ones I find alignment indicative):

Spoiler: ISO

Day 2:

About now Camo, I'd rather wait to know if he's being subbed out or directly modkilled (to see if it's even worth it), but his rather shallow contribution yesterday /is/ worrysome.

Mostly it depends how sensitive the info is. It basically would be an argument of "who is rolefishing who", if the original asker's question is more sensitive than its reasons. But in my personal case I wouldn't give out /any/ info with a "it's for my role" purpose. All we know there's an anti-town role that benefits on trivial questions (example, a Pokémon setting that gives a scum an additional kill if they know all players that are gym leaders or something like that). I've seen a lot myself in past games to have a reasonable paranoia for that sort of stuff.

This is actually right and I find it odd for various reasons. The fact that Keeper said this could very well be a reason for us to keep him alive as well and the only way we can confirm his claim is by "risking" a player getting bombed. But then again, it's a relatively dumb move, which is actually throwing me off.

1. Yeah, of course, it's al a bluff/mind game stuff, but my point is that, if or when you're in the spotlight for whatever reason then we'd actually give it some thought and it'll get trickier the later in the game we go. Since we don't know the specifics of the bomb (if there's one) and you'd definitely not share it, we might as well think that it's not necessarily an anti-scum bomb, but it can kill anyone in your bus, since we'd be discussing your role as town or mafia. See my point? It's not something to lynch you for and definitely I'm not building a case around it, it's just that a bomb claim is just too gutsy and too risky for everyone to play with or play around, and not only to scum but to town as well. It's all a huge mess of mental games mumbo jumbo.
2. Jeeez, is it that bad? Then we'd need to be extra careful with our lynches. If we're going to get punished WHILE losing a townsman then we better try to avoid it.



Hmm... probably something similar to what Keeper did, a claim that's actually believable and enough info to support it. Definitely not just a "gimme info, plz"; at least some logical reasoning as to why that info being shared is for our best interest.

This, though, is a really good point... If I was Keeper I might as well claim something stupidly attractive for the scum and let them kill me.

Group of Keeper interactions that I feel like point towards him as town some more since scum doesn't typically want to shade their buddy like this.

I'm not liking this one bit. I beleive we've already said Keeper is far better alive than dead because of his contributions. I'm also interested in what Camo has against you, so I'll wait for it to develop before I vote.

This I think points highly towards Zone as town.

Indeed it was, I was just wating to see what happened... which was a weird turn of events with that withdrawal from Camo.

It's an easy gambit, tho, and not necessarily to his buddy. Mafians know for a fact who's town and who isn't (leaving the indie aside, of course). Simply stating "I know X is town" is easily provable.

Day 3:

And about Keeper, let's first consider, can the bomb thingy be his Farewell?

Uhm, yeah, through his Ability?

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't outright rule him out as Scum but your scan isn't necessarily alignment indicative At most now we know he is indeed getting info about Farewells and not making that stuff up.

Scum is totally cool with a scumbuddy being wrongly ruled out so I think this is more Keeper for town points.

More town points to Keeper through this and some to Zone also IMO. I think this says that Keeper shouldn't be in the PoE even more so this should secure our town core and allow us to welcome to the town core our first investigative role.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

welcome to the town core our first investigative role

This is important btw because we know that we can trust Keeper's results and he can be a valuable tool for us to check the PoE and see their Farewell abilities.

 

[Mariano11887]

NP, I seeing the opposite as you. The first thing I think while reading Luis talking good of Keeper is that he is defending a scumbuddy.

This is important btw because we know that we can trust Keeper's results and he can be a valuable tool for us to check the PoE and see their Farewell abilities.

I still don't get how an ability that checks Farewell Abilities is more useful for town than for scum. Keeper is still in my scum-lean list.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

NP, I seeing the opposite as you. The first thing I think while reading Luis talking good of Keeper is that he is defending a scumbuddy.


I still don't get how an ability that checks Farewell Abilities is more useful for town than for scum. Keeper is still in my scum-lean list.

Eh, we can agree to disagree I guess. Thoughts on the three lynches after Luis?

 

[bbninjas]

Before day ends, I still want Cel to answer the question: Why does he think Drac is town? This is important in case he dies tonight, I want to hear his insights

 

[Mariano11887]

Thoughts on the three lynches after Luis?

Three lynches? Aren't there two more scums?

My list of reads so far is the following, ordered by scumminess descending:

• Keeper
• Drac
• Camo
• Jabber
• bb
• Zone
• Celever

I didn't include NP because he is indie.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

Three lynches? Aren't there two more scums?

There's still a mislynch left. We have 2 correct lynches and one wrong one allotted, which makes three in total.

 

[Zone Q11]

Hey both of you two are in the towncore so let's hear your thoughts on the PoE that wins us the game since working that out is a good use of the couple hours we have left.

I think I already made this (not on this format though), but it is basically LuisPipe -> Camo -> Drac -> Jabber/BB

The first thing I think while reading Luis talking good of Keeper is that he is defending a scumbuddy.

Oh? I have to reread your post, but if Keeper's role has the possibility of being a safe claim, then he would stand between Camo and Drac for me.

 

[Mariano11887]

Oh? I have to reread your post, but if Keeper's role has the possibility of being a safe claim, then he would stand between Camo and Drac for me.

The ability I used last night gives me the role PM of my target. If my target has a safe-claim, my ability returns his safe-claim instead. I would never have gotten the real Mafian role PM. That's why Keeper is not cleared, he's just in the same state as yesterday.

 

[Mariano11887]

There's still a mislynch left. We have 2 correct lynches and one wrong one allotted, which makes three in total.

It's still 2 lynches, because if we mislynch tomorrow and reach MYLO next day with 2 scums alive, I'm totally sure you'll turn to their side to lynch a townie and end the game.

 

[Zone Q11]

The ability I used last night gives me the role PM of my target. If my target has a safe-claim, my ability returns his safe-claim instead. I would never have gotten the real Mafian role PM. That's why Keeper is not cleared, he's just in the same state as yesterday.

I see. Well, if somebody can kick some sense to Camo and make him stop attacking NP, then I agree with you on voting Keeper first.

It's still 2 lynches, because if we mislynch tomorrow and reach MYLO next day with 2 scums alive, I'm totally sure you'll turn to their side to lynch a townie and end the game.

Hm...

D3 6.2.1
N3 5.2.1 or 6.2.1
D4 5.1.1 or 4.2.1 OR 6.1.1 or 5.2.1 or 6.2.0
N4 4.1.1 or 3.2.1 OR 5.1.1 or 4.2.1 or 5.2.0
D5...

I am starting to get why people are paranoid of indies, but I still don't see how or why NP would betray us without proper communications with scum. It's honestly a needless worry for me as long as that remains to be a fact.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

It's still 2 lynches, because if we mislynch tomorrow and reach MYLO next day with 2 scums alive, I'm totally sure you'll turn to their side to lynch a townie and end the game.

I've said this before and I will repeat it: unless the town betrays me, I'm not betraying the town.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

I see. Well, if somebody can kick some sense to Camo and make him stop attacking NP, then I agree with you on voting Keeper.

Doesn't matter if you stop him from attacking me; I'm attacking him now. Camo's scum and I'm never voting Keeper tomorrow ever. Notice that literally every player in this game but Camo and Drac has tried to create a PoE today and tried to catch scum. Camo is known for being a very good player as town. Town Camo literally never pushes an indie and rolefishes the whole day and gives 0 thoughts on who might be scum and tries to keep the town divided instead of trying to find a group that can trust eachother. I ask Camo if he can do some work in catching scum and he says he's not afraid of me? This isn't a player who's caring one bit about eliminating the scum.
And this is just today. Yesterday, he criticized me for not caring about the lynch and ending up on somebody they thought was town without trying to push a counterwagon. And he did the exact same thing, even asking if people could find a better option and for people to get working together. But did he once suggest a lynch option and push it (just suggesting Zone isn't enough according to him)? No. Town Camo would always push somebody when he has three hours left and make the decision for himself; scum Camo wants a townie to suggest a mislynch, not him.
And this isn't even factoring in Quaking. Quaking went into the thread having not posted anything much for three days and asked how he can defend himself. He didn't think one bit about catching scum because that wasn't Quaking's win-con: defending himself from the lynch, however, was. Quaking bandwagoned in a typical scum spot and suggested a question even worse than the one he voted Jplap for asking. Quaking wasn't a player who cared one bit about lynching scum.