RE: Shaymin EX, and the future BDIF HorseBlast
Derp. My mistake lol.
QWERTY DITTO said:
Derp. My mistake lol.
Keldeo-EX / Blastoise discussion
- Thread starter Emopanda133
- Start date
I don't think people are going to start spamming Virizions just because of Keldeo. Virizion, while a somewhat ok starter, kind of loses its luster when the two cards you've drawn are N'd away. The fact that you bring up Virizion, however, is a very interesting concept. Virizion has a decent 110 HP, and as you mentioned, can withstand a couple of hits from Keldeo EX (unless it has five Energy attached, or four without Eviolite). Virizion might be fun to tech into Darkrai/Hydreigon when you already run the Blend to Leaf Wallop. Furthermore, you're attacking for 80 with only two Energy, and then 160 for the next few as long as you keep Virizion alive. Then again, you only sacrifice one Prize rather than two when you would with Shaymin. By Catchering Blastoise/Squirtles consistently, Virizion actually could shut down this deck if the Blend gets out in time. This is a tech I wouldn't mind trying out, because it may show some promise. Unfortunately, Virizion benefits only the matchup against this deck, and decreases consistency against others. We'll see how popular Blastoise/Keldeo gets, and then we'll find if this Musketeer deserves some merit.
Yeah they were talking about EP Virizion haha. Hence me saying Giga Drain isn't a bad starter move either.
irondragon12 said:
You can just SSU or bring another benched Keldeo to get Keldeo out of the active.
It is not easy to have in 1 deck Keldeo, Mewtwo, Bouffalant, Registeel and Kyurem plus the Blastoise line and maybe emolga.
Using that way of KOing squirtle on the bench is good but if you go with something like kyurem then you would not spread the max and it can be a not-so-easy match up. It will have a lot of problems with garbodor because it needs a LOT of abilities (tech tool scrapper always).
Flygon2071 said:
Using flippy things as a way of getting things back is stupid. If I could cuss now would be the time I would. I absolutely HATE anything flip related. If we were to all rely on things like that wouldn't we just use Poke Ball to find anything we want instead of UBall? So dumb.
I wasn't aware this deck would use Kyurem though. And also I didn't say to put everything I suggested in here, I was just listing the various options that would have potential. I listed the ones that use colorless energy to attack because they all do great things and with the ability to stack energy as you please, it's really nice. I honestly can't justify any Kyurem in the decklist as it is to begin with though so I see plenty of slots available for even MewtwoEX and if you wanted Emolga I guess.
As it is I never mentioned anything about the Kyurem's spreading damage and I think they'll both be quite mediocre to be honest. And I don't really get the last part of what you said haha. All I'm saying is that Landorus-EX is going to be the new beast on the street. And I'm hyped for Infernape.
SSU is actually quite good in this deck. The reason we don't use poke ball is because it has better alternatives. Can you name something that does what SSU does? It's so good in this deck. Landorus also gets killed by this deck, and Infernape is garbage. Hate to be blunt, but I fail to see what you are hyping it for.irondragon12 said:
pokemonjoe said:
Because for one colorless you stop: Night Spear, XBall, Triple Laser, Secret Sword, Rainbow Burn, Frost Prison, Gold Breaker, Retaliate or Land Crush, Pump Up Smash, Steel Bullet, Dragon Burst, Mach Cut....do I need to go on? Is it really that hard to see? Maybe also is the fact that he retreats FOR FREE. He's a stage two. Then for TWO energy(one of which is fire, not really a big deal, it's expected) you do 120. So you discard all your energy, big deal. Doesn't matter if you double Torment into Malevolent Fire. The only thing that really works around this well is Darkrai/Hydreigon because you can pass around energy, but this is only good if a 2nd Darkrai is on the field.
A stadium such as Plasma Frigate also greatly helps Infernape out against what will undoubtedly be a large water field(in thanks also to ArticunoEX).
Anyways the point about SSU is true that no other cards do that, but depending your win or loss on a flip is stupid and not a good objective way of looking at card game. I know we take luck into consideration just by playing the game through topdecking and prizes as well, but if any strides to be made to make a card game less random can be made, I will pretty much always go with those options. I have never used SSU for this reason nor do I ever plan to. Yes I know Landorus gets killed but it's dependent on who gets what first generally. You have better chances because of his weakness but he also has other attacks he can use(and if Dusknoir is there, you can move it all to Keldeo or whatever etc) to spread damage into Land's Judgment, still definitely not favorable for him if for nothing else than weakness but I'm just trying to point out other things that may be good in the format when BC gets released.
You can just retreat to another attacker and Infernape gets shut down. It really won't work. Also, Landorus will be good, but I don't think it will manage to be top tier. It's also good on the early game only. After that Terrakion outclasses it IMO, and with Keldeo around it won't be dominating for sure. Landorus is only good if you start with it against Eels. Otherwise, it isn't that useful IMO.
Roronoa Zoro said:
Right but depending on when Infernape comes in and what the rest of your opponent's deck looks like, having to go to another attacker isn't really a good option. Once again as said, Darkrai/Hydreigon has it best because of free energy switching but other decks have to use a lot of energy just to use a good attack or it might be their only attack. And if they put a bunch of energy on one attacker there's not always a good chance that they're going to have much to put on other things. It all comes down to strategy obviously but shutting down the pace of their game and forcing them to do something generally uncomfortable for most(Retreat) or forcing them to use a resource they didn't want to/plan on using at that given time(Switch) it disrupts their gameplan and that's what makes it good. Eels gets around this pretty okay but they have to be setup well to be able to not care, at which point you probably won't beat RayEels no matter what deck you are so it's mostly negligible. Your opponent also still only gets 1 prize from him. I think extensive testing needs to be done when PGale comes out though to know what will be good or bad to just shrug Infernape off like this because he LOOKS impressive even if he turns out not to be. One last note, but I think Infernape was made to stop MewtwoEX as a lot of things they've been coming out with have seemed to be made for that purpose(Torment to stop XBall, Malov Fire discards energy, etc).
As for Landorus, using him early is the point I think anyways =P. Doing what is essentially a "double" laser for one fighting(not that bad since WFLM exists as well) and 80 at any time or 150 if you decide to discard energy is a good finishing blow. I just think of it as doing a 3rd of a Night Spear for a couple of turns then being able to hit for 150 if you so desire. Might have to make more use of Super Rod or Energy Retrieval because of that(hopefully not obviously) but it could still be good. We'll see.
Other cards with an Amnesia/Torment type attack have not seen any success to my knowledge (or even been played) as the tactic is too easily bypassed.
First off, saying that Darkrai/Hydreigon is the only deck that can get around it easily does not help much- it is the most played deck in the format. It's going to hurt if you employ a tactic that works on every deck except for the 50+% of the time where you are playing a deck that it doesn't affect much.
Secondly, the opponent burning a resource in order to uphold the momentum they have over the game is a resource well used in my opinion. If I have to retreat something and then switch so that I can knock out the stage 2 that you have taken the time to set up, I'll do it. At the end of my turn, has momentum shifted in your favor because of your use of a Torment? In all probability, you have dealt 30 damage and given me a prize card. I'm not saying that there is no way to make Infernape work, but most decks are going to be flexible enough to where a Torment will not be a major setback.
As far as Blastoise/Keldeo, the deck has a few things going for it- namely the acceleration that Emboar has without its weaknesses. It's hard to say anything else about it before we can test it out.
In theory, Squirtle makes it hard for Darkrai or Landorus to gain an early game advantage from turn 1 and 2 snipes, but N and Keldeo's inability to OHKO much of the metagame would seem to give it a hard time playing against Darkrai/Hydreigon (which also seems that it will remain popular for a while). But at this point I'm purely speculating. We'll all have to just wait and find out what works.
I would think that keldeo/blastoise would struggle against Garbodor Variants, since keldeo needs blastoise and doesn't run a ton of switches. But I haven't tested this yet 
The Pikachu Mafia said:I would think that keldeo/blastoise would struggle against Garbodor Variants, since keldeo needs blastoise and doesn't run a ton of switches. But I haven't tested this yet
Just use Step In and you don't need the switch. Unless i read something VERY wrong.
Not sure how this deck will turn out, it's extremely difficult to counter with the Grass weakness but isn't particularly strong in anything.
Welp, I can actually give some educated thoughts on this now that I've played a few matches with it.
It's EXTREMELY good. Now that Skyla is around, it makes it really easy to get that candy, and once a Blastoise is up for even a second, the opponent is done. I played two games, the second of which I was doing 170 damage turn 3. Not to mention it can heal with SSU.
The major issue is consistency. It's extremely tight for space. However, as I said, with cards like Skyla and Computer Search, I think it won't be too much of an issue (considering I had the T2 Blastoise in both of the matches that I played.)
I can also forsee it having some troubles against Mewtwo, despite it running Mewtwo of it's own.
It's EXTREMELY good. Now that Skyla is around, it makes it really easy to get that candy, and once a Blastoise is up for even a second, the opponent is done. I played two games, the second of which I was doing 170 damage turn 3. Not to mention it can heal with SSU.
The major issue is consistency. It's extremely tight for space. However, as I said, with cards like Skyla and Computer Search, I think it won't be too much of an issue (considering I had the T2 Blastoise in both of the matches that I played.)
I can also forsee it having some troubles against Mewtwo, despite it running Mewtwo of it's own.
blargh257 said:The Pikachu Mafia said:I would think that keldeo/blastoise would struggle against Garbodor Variants, since keldeo needs blastoise and doesn't run a ton of switches. But I haven't tested this yet
Just use Step In and you don't need the switch. Unless i read something VERY wrong.
Not sure how this deck will turn out, it's extremely difficult to counter with the Grass weakness but isn't particularly strong in anything.
yeah, you missed the part where I said garbodor, while step in is an ability. Which of course is exactly why keldeo should have a hard time against it...