OU: Strategy Counter that Pokemon (Round 30)

RE: Counter that Pokemon (Round 11)

Well, try to try something new here! I'm sorry if I'm not great at this, but it seemed pretty interesting to do, so here goes nothing!

For the Sylveon counter, I was thinking of something like this:
probopass.gif

Probopass @ Muscle Band
Ability - Sand Force
Nature - Adamant
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Att, 4 Def
Moves:
- Sandstorm
- Toxic
- Torment
- Stone Edge

The goal here would be to switch in, use Toxic/Sandstorm (Sandstorm to lower the damage taken or Toxic to inflict poison damage sooner), Torment, Sandstorm/Toxic(whichever you didn't use before), and hopefully finish off with Stone Edge, one or two hits. With Torment Sylveon will be able to only hit 50% of the time because of Choice Specs

In Sandstorm:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Probopass in Sand: 66-78 (20.3 - 24%) -- 0.4% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Probopass: 46-55 (14.1 - 16.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Probopass in Sand: 60-71 (18.5 - 21.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Probopass in Sand: 45-54 (13.8 - 16.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock
Not in Sandstorm:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Probopass: 98-116 (30.2 - 35.8%) -- 96.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Probopass: 46-55 (14.1 - 16.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Probopass: 90-106 (27.7 - 32.7%) -- 9.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Probopass: 68-80 (20.9 - 24.6%) -- 11.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
 
RE: Counter that Pokemon (Round 11)

His Goominess has won 2 points for his counter.
One Approved has won 4 points for his counter, and won the round. Although it takes more damage than Heatran does (at maximum), it is able to heal itself, and still support the team with Heal Bell, and take out Sylveon through Toxic.
CuriousCleffa has won 0 points for his counter. Unfortunately, the set simply isn't viable in OU.

Round 12
breloom.gif

Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Rock Tomb
 
RE: Counter that Pokemon (Round 12)

venusaur-mega.gif

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Sleep Powder

M-Venusaur resists both of Brelooms STAB Attacks(1/2 Fighting, 1/4 Grass) and is also Immune to Spore. Spore is a large factor in Breloom's set that allows it to deal out free damage to Opposing Pokemon. Venusaur will force a switch on Breloom as it takes minimal damage from all 3 attacks, but if it stays in for some reason it will brought down to its Sash by an overpowering Sludge Bomb.M-Venusaur won't even be brought down to half health with two Max Damage Rock Tombs(Without Stealth Rocks). Whatever he does take can easily be recovered by Synthesis. If you predict Breloom to switch out you can use Sleep Powder to force another switch and keep momentum going.

252+ Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 30-36 (8.2 - 9.8%) -- possible 9HKO after Stealth Rock(Average Hits)
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 50-60 (13.7 - 16.4%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock(Most Possible Hits)
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 33-40 (9 - 10.9%) -- possible 8HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Rock Tomb vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 68-81 (18.6 - 22.2%) -- 0.2% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
 
RE: Counter that Pokemon (Round 12)

This is my first time participating in one of these contests, so excuse me if my counter is not in proper format!

Counter:
376.gif

Metagross @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (Def Up, Sp Atk Down)
- Protect/Earthquake (Irrelevant to countering Breloom)
- Substitute
- Zen Headbutt
- Bullet Punch

After switching in and taking rocks damage, Metagross will use Substitute. On turn 1, Breloom will attack first, assumingly with Spore, which will be negated by the Lum Berry. The Substitute will then be set up, with no status condition weighing us down.

Originally, I was going to use Aerial Ace in the first slot, due to its accuracy, but due to the fact these are judged partially by their viability in the format, either Protect or Earthquake will work better. Anyways, on turn 2, Metagross will use Zen Headbutt, which as we can see in the calculations below, will leave Breloom with 1 HP after the Focus Sash saves its butt. Spore is rendered useless now that Substitute is up, and the only move capable of breaking the Sub in 1 turn is Bullet Seed, only if it hits 5 times. (As stated in the rules, we are assuming this move hits 3 times, which allows the substitute to stay no matter what.) Although unlikely, if this happens, we will still be okay.

After the turn progesses, bringing Breloom down to 1 HP, the fatal blow will be a Bullet Punch to the face, which moves first (Unless Mach Punch is used, which will hardly leave a mark) and will guarantee the victory.

Breloom Attacks:
252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Metagross: 54-66 (14.8 - 18.1%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Metagross: 90-110 (24.7 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Metagross: 58-70 (15.9 - 19.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Technician Breloom Rock Tomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Metagross: 29-35 (7.9 - 9.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Metagross Attacks:
4 Atk Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 270-318 (103.4 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(Unnecessary but ayy) 4 Atk Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 67-81 (25.6 - 31%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
 
RE: Counter that Pokemon (Round 12)

@alstoneman But assume you switch into Breloom, and take damage before the Sub is up you can still win but will be left will a very low HP Metagross.
 
RE: Counter that Pokemon (Round 12)

For a Breloom counter, something possibly like:
591.gif

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability - Regenerator
Nature - Bold
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Sp.Def
Moves:
- Toxic
- Foul Play
- Giga Drain
- Protect

The idea here would be to switch in Amoonguss, take some damage, but Black Sludge would heal a bit. Use Toxic to poison Breloom, and use a combo of Protect, Giga Drain, Protect, Giga Drain (I think Breloom would be done either with the second Giga Drain, if not, then Protect once more should do it) Black Sludge will keep healing every turn, and no damage will be taken on turns that you'd use Protect. Giga Drain heals, but not much against Breloom. And Regenerator will heal Amoonguss by 1/3 its max HP when you switch out for the next pokemon (or whenever you switch out). Amoonguss also is not affected by Spore, so that's one less move to worry about.



Amoonguss -
0 SpA Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 54-63 (20.6 - 24.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after poison damage
0- Atk Amoonguss Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 68-80 (26 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after poison damage
Breloom -
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 45-54 (10.4 - 12.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 48-57 (11.1 - 13.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Rock Tomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 97-115 (22.4 - 26.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery
 
RE: Counter that Pokemon (Round 12)

[animate]scizor[/animate]
Scizor @Scizorite
Trait: Technician
248 HP/84 Atk/176 SpDef
Adamant nature
~Swords Dance
~Roost
~Bullet Punch
~Knock Off

252+ Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Mega Scizor: 75-88 (21.8 - 25.6%) -- 1% chance to 4HKO
84 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 118-139 (45.2 - 53.2%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Scizor: 99-117 (28.8 - 34.1%) -- 1.5% chance to 3HKO

The most relevant calc is the top one, since that's the worst-case scenario. I'm assuming Scizor gets switched in against Spore because if it's not, it can immediately threaten to take away roughly half of Breloom's health, but I put the bottom calc there just in case. Breloom isn't guaranteed to 4HKO Mega Zor even if Stealth Rock is up, and it can use Roost later in the game against something non-threatening if it needs to heal itself. It's about as close of a counter as you can get without using a Grass-type, Spore sucks :[
 
RE: Counter that Pokemon (Round 12)

PhantomHaze said:
@alstoneman But assume you switch into Breloom, and take damage before the Sub is up you can still win but will be left will a very low HP Metagross.
Click to expand...

In all reality, the slight amount of damage taken by the attack on the turn Metagross switches in will not matter in the end. The maximum amount of damage possible with just one turn is a 5-hit Bullet Seed, hitting for 24.7 - 30.2% of Metagross's HP, something that Metagross can easily handle.

Example worst possible situation:
Turn 1: Metagross switches in, taking a 5-hit Bullet Seed for max damage, 30.2%
Turn 2: Breloom uses Spore, which is negated by the Lum Berry. Metagross uses Substitute, depleting its HP another 25%. 44.8% Health remains for Metagross.
Turn 3: Breloom gets lucky once again and lands a 5-hit Bullet Seed, which breaks the Substitute. Metagross uses Zen Headbutt (if this situation legitimately happens and then you miss, just turn off your 3DS and cry) which reduces Breloom to 1 HP.
Turn 4: I repeat, this is the worst possible situation. Breloom uses Mach Punch before Metagross can attack, hitting for the max of 19.2% damage. Metagross ends the confrontation with Bullet Punch, knocking out Breloom.

Metagross is left with 25.6% health, which isn't great, but: 1. I repeat for the third time, this situation is highly unlikely and the WORST possible outcome. 2. Breloom is taken care of very efficiently, which is the main idea of the contest.
 
RE: Counter that Pokemon (Round 12)

latias-mega.gif
@ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Stored Power
- Substitute

This is Breloom's nightmare and one of the most terrifying set-up sweepers in OU (simply add one or two fighting types to take out Darks and you're golden).

252 Atk Technician Breloom Rock Tomb vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Latias: 68-80 (18.7 - 22%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Latias: 63-75 (17.3 - 20.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Latias: 37-44 (9 - 11%) -- possible 8HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Latias: 75-90 (20.6 - 24.7%) -- approx. 98.6% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Technician Breloom Rock Tomb vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Latias: 83-98 (22.8 - 26.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Mega Latias Stored Power (20 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 90-108 (34.4 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 0 SpA Mega Latias Stored Power (60 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 392-464 (150.1 - 177.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

As you can see, Latias can survive being Spored on the switch and set up a Substitute as a Mega that Breloom can't break in one hit while Roosting behind it (really doesn't matter if Rock Tomb hits). After just one Calm Mind between Subs (which also block Spore), Stored Power destroys Breloom in either forme, but Latias can boost up all it wants on Breloom and proceed to sweep if it chooses to.
 
RE: Counter that Pokemon (Round 12)

I'm /shocked/ that the best breloom counter wasn't posted. So.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 220 SpDef / 36 Spe
Calm Nature
- Recover
- Giga Drain
- Psychic
- Thunder Wave / Heal Bell / Leech Seed / -INSERT SUPPORT MOVE HERE-

Been the best for generations, still the best. Access to instant recovery, immune to spore, STAB attack to one of Breloom's many weaknesses, and a huge support movepool. Could have more Defense but Grass types work well with a big investment in Special Defense.
 
RE: Counter that Pokemon (Round 12)

PhantomHaze has won 2 points for his counter.
Alstoneman has won 2 points for his counter. Although you never counted switching into Spore (and then being hit again), you still live with plenty of HP to get off the Zen Headbutt, no matter the situation.
CuriousCleffa has won 2 points for his counter. Again, need to be careful about viability here, but you did well enough this time that I feel comfortable giving the two points, especially since it counters Breloom very well.
One Approved has won 1 points for his counter. Worst-case scenario, Scizor doesn't make it out alive. Best case scenario, you aren't left with much HP. If you switch into Spore, you're hit twice before you wake up, and they have time to pull off their 4 Mach Punches. However, at 1%, this isn't much problem. But, if you switch into Mach Punch, the odds increase because you take more damage as normal Scizor, and they still pull off Spore before you get two hits in.
Uralya has won 2 points for his counter. The only thing I can see going wrong is if you switch into Spore, and get speed-drops from Rock Tomb, allowing you to get outsped and put to sleep again. I would have given it the 4, but...
Pride has won 4 points for his counter. No matter how you slice it, Breloom isn't getting over Celebi. And it doesn't have to worry about about Spore-shenanigans. Provides team support, and heals off any damage done to it easily.

Round 13
terrakion.gif

Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Round ends 12/29.
 
RE: Counter that Pokemon (Round 13)

lol HP Ice Terrakion IS a thing.

slowbro-mega.gif
@ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Slack Off

Terrakion has always had trouble breaking through Slowbro, but ORAS just makes it all the harder for the poor fighter. Slowbro can tank everything an unboosted LO Terrakion can throw at him, Slack it Off, and 2HKO with Scald, Calm Mind to set up, and whatnot. There's no contest here when Mega Slowbro can wall him to the depths and back. On top of this, Slowbro is a great Pokemon in the metagame, a nice part of defensive cores and a win condition for stall teams given the right support.

4 SpA Mega Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Terrakion: 264-312 (81.7 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 4 SpA Mega Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Terrakion: 396-468 (122.6 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 99-118 (25.1 - 29.9%) -- 2.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 66-79 (16.7 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Terrakion: 212-252 (65.6 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 142-169 (36 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 95-113 (24.1 - 28.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
 
RE: Counter that Pokemon (Round 13)

garchomp.gif

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Dragon Claw

252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 265-313 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

4 SpA Life Orb Terrakion Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Garchomp: 224-265 (62.7 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 356-422 (110.2 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Certain counter without crit shenanigans, but Chomp is left in a pretty bad shape.
 
RE: Counter that Pokemon (Round 13)

[animate]hippowdon[/animate]
Hippowdon @Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
Impish nature
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef
~Stealth Rock
~Earthquake
~Slack Off
~Stone Edge/Whirlwind/Toxic (doesn't matter really)

252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 164-192 (39 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 260-308 (80.4 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

For those who opt for a more defensive Sand Streamer than Tyranitar. Hippowdon is never 2hko'd after leftovers, and can spam Slack Off to get itself back to full health while Terrakion slowly kills itself from Life Orb. Or, if you don't really need Hippowdon for anything other than countering Terrakion (or feel confident you can Slack Off later) Earthquake is a guaranteed OHKO after 2 turns of Life Orb recoil.

In reality though we should just give 4 points to Uralya and move on with our day. :p
 
RE: Counter that Pokemon (Round 13)

Since Slowbro is posted... Lets go probably second best.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Bold Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4
- Recover
- Giga Drain
- Psychic
- Thunder Wave / Heal Bell / Leech Seed / -INSERT SUPPORT MOVE HERE-

Stone Edge does a ton but is a 3hko. Psychic is an easy 2hko (73% min). Slowbro was posted and it has HP Ice so this might be the best your gonna get. Maybe max Latias but it takes more then from SE then the celery stick.
 
RE: Counter that Pokemon (Round 13)

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Sleep Powder

Good luck, the only move that can do anything is Earthquake (HP Ice 8HKOs), which is a 4HKO (252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 88-105 (24.1 - 28.8%) -- 99.3% chance to 4HKO), which Venusaur can just Synthesis back the health, use Sleep Powder, and Giga Drain back health, or just use Giga Drain for the 2HKO.
 
RE: Counter that Pokemon (Round 13)

Pride said:
Stone Edge - 36.5 - 43.1%
Click to expand...

Ahh, thanks for pointing that out, in my cockiness I didn't think Stone Edge would do much, but still, Giga Drain 2HKOs and restores health either way whilst Stone Edge 3HKOs.
 
RE: Counter that Pokemon (Round 13)

You also have to consider the fact that Venasaur has to switch in to Mega Evolve, so it potentially has to take a SE without it having its increased defenses. 48 - 56.8%. With SR down, that's a 100% 2hko (or 64% chance considering SE's accuracy). This is the main reason why I posted Celebi over Mega Venasaur, Celebi takes slightly more from SE then mega plant but it has its defenses right from the switch.
 
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