then answer my question if you don't think it will work, why was Typhlosion BDIF last fall? ("collector" isn't an answer, every deck lost that card, putting every deck at the same disadvantage...)
(1) The EX’s, Ultra Rares, and Trainers of BW8 ‘Spiral Force’ and ‘Thunder Knuckle’ [12/12]
- Thread starter Water Pokémon Master
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The format changed. With Catcher and fast basics, stages 2 have hard time getting into play and no deck needs to have 2 stages 2 at the same time for it to work good. The only exceptions are Garchomp and Empoleon and those can spam easily with Dragon Call and Double Draw.
Typhlosion actually had catcher during the peak of it's power (BR's) also you can easily pair chandelure with fast basics to make it playable, which is what we're doing...
But you need more than 1 Chandelure in play for it to be use better. I don't say it is unplayable just that it won't be over T2.
Flygon2071 said:So:
4 Rare Candy
4 Skyla
4 Communication (really not ultra ball)
4-2-4 Chandelure
1 Computer Search
Really? That are 23 cards to get in the deck just to spam Chandelure. Almost half deck just to get Chandelure there. The problem is that Chandelure isn't spammable like Garchomp or Empoleon. The best card in the Cahndelure line to spam it is the Call for Family Litwick:
silly flygon, you don't need all of that. The staple cards are totally going to be
3 Skyla
4 Ultra Ball
1 Level Ball
4 Litwick Promo
3 Chandelure Plasma
4 Rare Candy
1 Computer Search
That's only 20. Lament is completely optional IMO.
Then you want 2-3 of your main attacker, a Mewtwo (kind of optional), and a tech if you choose to run one. That's 5 at most. Supporters/ RR will take up anywhere from 10-14 spaces (unless you don't like consistency), and Energy will take up about 10 since you're getting it from the deck. That puts us at about... 50 if you choose not to go whole hog on the Supporters (this is only 12 right now) and run no techs. Now you have 10 spaces for Catcher, Switch, Super Rod (if you choose to play Reshiram or White Kyurem EX), and Tool Scrapper.
here's how I see it:
4-1-3 chandelure plasma
4 Ultra Ball
3 Rare Candy
2 Skyla
2 Plasma Ball
1 Comp. Search
which still adds up to 20, and you can use Ultra/Plasma ball to search for Heatran EX, Reshiram BW/EX, Entei EX etc. etc.
4-1-3 chandelure plasma
4 Ultra Ball
3 Rare Candy
2 Skyla
2 Plasma Ball
1 Comp. Search
which still adds up to 20, and you can use Ultra/Plasma ball to search for Heatran EX, Reshiram BW/EX, Entei EX etc. etc.
To your question of why Typhlosion could get several of himself out, he had Ninetales for draw, and setting up was way easier back then. We didn't have cards like Tornadus EX (the old one) and Mewtwo EX to KO weak basics turn 1.
I see modern stage 2 decks like Klinklang and Hydreigon get 2 of there stage 2's out about maybe 1 in 3 games (maybe 4), and if you build your deck to get 2 or more of them out, I think it won't be too hard to get 2 Chandelure's out. Definitely not every game, but the majority of the time I think is fair.
I see modern stage 2 decks like Klinklang and Hydreigon get 2 of there stage 2's out about maybe 1 in 3 games (maybe 4), and if you build your deck to get 2 or more of them out, I think it won't be too hard to get 2 Chandelure's out. Definitely not every game, but the majority of the time I think is fair.
If you want to get them really fast and almost all the time, that are the best odds. I'm not saying you can't just that you will have a hard time having them. I know that Hydreigon can have 2 Hydreigons in play but not always and generally the second one like T4/5.
I like the idea of Chandelure/Lugia, since Reshiram is really good against Lugia's worst nightmare, Klinklang. Although I'm not sure if there's enough space in the deck for everything they both need...
Hey guys. Latias EX is awful. The only cards it actually blocks are Darkrai, Keldeo EX, and Bouffalant. Every deck that runs those also runs mons that can easily dominate Latias. It only does 70 for 3, god awful for an EX, and it doesn't even apply weakness (which sucks because dragon is a really good attacking type now). Also not applying resistance lol, nothing resists dragon. Latias is just bad. If they can't set up another attacker while you're 3HKOing everything, they wouldn't win anyway.
Dark Void said:
That's exactly why Sigilyph is bad too.
You also forgot about Lugia EX and Deoxys EX.
Dark Void said:
It also blocks Empoleon, Lugia, Deoxys, Sigilyph, Ho-oh, Blastoise, Hydreigon, Mew EX, and a bunch of other stuff (not to mention a ton of abilities to come in the future). Sure, it isn't the best card of all time, but these things it counters are some of the best cards in the game! (Even the 3 you noted are all significant enough on their own)
The attack is meh, but usable. The cost is the main drawback, but it works on the same blend. It does go through abilities and Eviolite, and PHB or Altaria can help it get 2HKOs on EXs.
I personally don't like the Latias card, but I don't doubt that it will see play.
It does so little damage, however, that any deck that uses it as its main attacker will need to use Altaria. Just 1 Altaria in play enables Latias to 2HKO anything. It's HP is on the low side, though I don't see much difference between 160 and 170 HP.
It has an almost instant win against Darkrai/Hydreigon, Blastoise/Keldeo, and Lugia decks. Though if it does become popular, there are some easy techs to get around it. Terrakion (NV), Tornadus EX (DEX), or Mewtwo EX can all 2HKO Latias without being in much danger at all.
It does so little damage, however, that any deck that uses it as its main attacker will need to use Altaria. Just 1 Altaria in play enables Latias to 2HKO anything. It's HP is on the low side, though I don't see much difference between 160 and 170 HP.
It has an almost instant win against Darkrai/Hydreigon, Blastoise/Keldeo, and Lugia decks. Though if it does become popular, there are some easy techs to get around it. Terrakion (NV), Tornadus EX (DEX), or Mewtwo EX can all 2HKO Latias without being in much danger at all.
The problem for Latias is the attack going for 70. But it isn't hit by more than half a meta. Terrakion, Landorus, Mewtwo, Garchomp, and the other Rayquaza are the major things that hit it. Just Rayquaza and Garchomp can hit it for weakness. The problem is the part where it says:
If it was just like Giratina's it would be great. The 70 damage is not good too.
If it was just like Giratina's it would be great. The 70 damage is not good too.
well assuming that rayquaza and garchomp are still played by then, yes latias has problems. But it's easy to fix the base 70 damage AND it will attack through klingklang/sigilyph's ability (and that should be pretty big if klingklang is used) latias can 2hko any card with 1 altaria and becomes super hard to ohko back.
The Pikachu Mafia said:
You don't need to OHKO it, 2HKOing is fine as long as you attack first.
I should correct my post. The ability with Giratina's first attack would take down the format. It would become Mewtwo in ND. Must counter it and best counter is itself. Other counters: Giratina, Rayquaza, Garchomp, Kingdra.
Flygon2071 said:
I usually have 2 Hydreigon in play by the 5th turn with 3-1-3 Hydreigon, 4 Candy, 3 Skyla, 4 Ultra Ball, and 1 Level Ball. Once I even got 2 on the same turn by turn 3. Also I play no Computer Search. (don't have it at the moment and it's a little pricey) However I'm probably lucky and you should by all means run Computer Search. There are many times where getting that Catcher or Max Potion will save you.
The Pikachu Mafia said:
3 Candy isn't enough if you want a T2 Chandelure almost every single game. Also, even with Comp. Search 2 Skyla is probably not going to be enough. Unless you're playing other Plasma Pokemon (aka Heatran EX) the two Plasma Ball isn't really necessary and you could probably use the space for more Candy or Skyla. We all have our opinions though so as long as it works for you, go ahead.
Latias's main strength is as a tech in something like Hydreigon. If there's a matchup against something that plays lots of Abilities that you don't find too favorable than add a Latias EX and see where that gets you.Dark Void said:
Machamp the Champion said:
Agreed.
And before anyone mentions anything about Quad-Sigi winning, it's because the meta right now is weighted so far towards EXs that it actually made Quad-Sigi viable. Now that everyone caught on, it's going to slink back into the shadows again.MtC said:
Poor Meloetta. </3
Machamp the Champion said:
But Sigilyph was worth only one prize. That's why it was used quite a bit. Latias does something that is quite similar to what Sigilyph does, however, you must double the cost for a small change. Not to mention that Latias needs 2 different energy to attack. Latias just isn't good enough.