Finished Mafia LVII: Big Brother Betrayal: Game Over! Postgame Part 1 Up!

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Nick Tornell

Haha, art go brrrr
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Nick how do you feel about being nominated?
I’d rather not givin my technological circumstances at the moment which was the same reason I was hesitant on joining in the first place. I mean, I’d like to avoid an auto-loss.
 

bbninjas

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True, but I think it's the lesser evil when it comes to inactivity. Zone does cause chaos, but chaos gets things done when no one else is around.

This is very much not true. With inactivity, at least the active players can still scumhunt.

When someone is chaotic, it consumes discussion and prevents ALL PLAYERS from scumhunting. Last game is a perfect example: Zone's chaoticness forced at least 4 people to claim unnecessarily and it choked up the discussions that other active players were trying to have.

It gets things done for the mafians, but nothing for the town.
 

bbninjas

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That's true but Zone made planning as scum really annoying since he was a wild card. Obviously there are downsides to keeping him around, but if everyone agrees that he's a wild card he can cause next to no damage while sprouting ideas and connections, at least late game. I just think there are more positives than negatives, but not so much that I'd be completely opposed to a Zone policy lynch.

@TeamAqua4Life #HEYNICK @GekkisaiDaiNi You were both mafians last game. What do you think about Vom's claim as bolded?
 

bbninjas

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Sorry for the quadruple post, I'm corroborating what I read on the backlog and that's sparking new thoughts

So far I'm thinking... @TeamAqua4Life #HEYNICK and @VioletValkyrie? The former is posting mainly fluff and the latter made a promise to read the thread and disappeared off the face of the earth afterward. I could switch Nick out for one of the inactives, but pretending to contribute is worse than just not contributing imo.
If Nick is posting fluff, but so is Zone...? You argument for not selecting Zone contradicts your justification for selecting Nick.

Your reason for Violet is not indicative because Violet is playing this game because of BB, not mafia. They had little invested interest in the game from sign-up; they would (and have in the past) disappeared as either alignment.
 

Vom

livin' in a lonely world
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When someone is chaotic, it consumes discussion and prevents ALL PLAYERS from scumhunting. Last game is a perfect example: Zone's chaoticness forced at least 4 people to claim unnecessarily and it choked up the discussions that other active players were trying to have.
It does if you focus on it. I chose not to claim until a certain point, so did Nyora. By himself, Zone does not have enough influence to make anyone do anything. Even now, this whole argument is happening because you're set on policy lynching Zone That being said, it seems you, Blink and Celever have made up your minds.
If Nick is posting fluff, but so is Zone...? You argument for not selecting Zone contradicts your justification for selecting Nick.
Zone is not completely fluff tho. He's actually pressuring people and getting some reactions out of them.
Your reason for Violet is not indicative because Violet is playing this game because of BB, not mafia. They had little invested interest in the game from sign-up; they would (and have in the past) disappeared as either alignment.
I literally said we mislynched her last game for that reason and there was nothing damning about her play, it's precisely because she's not too invested that she could use a poke. Who would you nominate besides Zone?
 

Vom

livin' in a lonely world
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Actually, I suppose if Zone is nominated it doesn't matter too much who the other nominee is at this point in the game. So it'd probably be Zone+mirdo now. Nick's posting more and at least cooperating, Jade made only one post but it seemed genuine, Gekki is around even if only to defend himself, so is Violet, and morda seems to be thinking about his actions.
On the other hand, mirdo literally said he chose to not read the thread. It doesn't matter too much since the other person in the chopping block is Zone, but an actual reason for choosing the other one is certainly better than a coin flip.
 

mirdo

Seagull Overlord and Business Entrepreneur
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I Love the word corroborating.
Not that i have any idea what it means. But i Love it nonetheless .

Another Thing that I Love is that you guys go apesheit cause i said im Not Reading 3 Pages of random pointless stuff so I could post anyway and contribute somewhat.

Well. I dont Think i did contribute. But I was atleast Posting something.

Btw. All this discussion isnt getting us Anywhere. We Need to Talk about who to nominate.
And The Choices for that are probably Zone and ... Yeah i guess mirdo.
I dont mind going up as a pawn if you want to get Zone out.
If I Need to put myself at Danger to prove my alignment . So be it.
 

bbninjas

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I just ISO'd Nick and I can't see this supposed lack of contribution or 'fluff'; I see a very different picture.

Hmmm, odd but reading up I just really don’t know who I’d vote for in this situation...

Well then, I guess ##Vote: Violet
Bonds are what keep us strong (maybe biased), also, I will point out that Zone is making me uneasy for thinking that bb just wanted to get more of a conversation going. Anything wrong with that? Oh wait, you don’t simply want to get a conversation going in mafia, there is always a motive.> that’s how mafia works
Pressure on Zone, who raised Aqua's suspicions for dumbtelling: Zone was thinking shallow, he underestimated bbn, or he poorly interpreted bbn.
Somebody other than Zone please, everyone is comfortable metareading him.
Sharp on the uptake: Blinkey gave an 'easy' read on Zone and Aqua didn't let him get away with it. This shows that Aqua is actively and critically thinking about the game.
No harm, no foul. Please relay thoughts when possible so as to give insight on what you feel so we have more of a full idea on the group as a whole.
Aqua wants to develop not just reads, but informed and more accurate reads. Again, Aqua is actively trying to scumunt.
These are Aqua's first three posts. The first two are direct attempts at scumhunting and brought new ideas / thoughts to the conversation. The third was encouragement that comes from an innocent perspective.

The remainder four or five posts are responses to other people's questions, including a reads list and responding to percieved contradictions of said list. The reads list is simple, sure, but remember that Celever only wanted a "picture" of Aqua's reads, not an analysis.

It’s all about difficulty to read. I find you to be more difficult than anybody else I’ve played with in the sense that you are never really too telling in your alignment. With Cel it’s a bit easier for me.
In fact, this is the only post that is particularly scummy imo as pointed out by Geyde, and it's not because it's lacking contribution or is 'fluff'.

@Vom, What post(s) of Aqua's made you suspicious of him?
@Geyde, If you were HoH, who would you nominate today?
 

bbninjas

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I Love the word corroborating.
Not that i have any idea what it means. But i Love it nonetheless .
It just means to compare what people say in the past and in the present, and see what's consistent and what isn't. If someone argues a point that doesn't make sense based on other information, then you start raising questions.

And The Choices for that are probably Zone and ... Yeah i guess mirdo.
I dont mind going up as a pawn if you want to get Zone out.
If I Need to put myself at Danger to prove my alignment . So be it.
If you couldn't nominate yourself, who would you nominate as a second person?
 

Zone Q11

『Plebeian』『He who Hails from NovelUpdates Forum』
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This logic is garbage, I was getting ready to leave the house and believe it or not I can form my own reads without help.
Okay, so my logic is garbage. ...so? What about it? No argument, no reads, just talks?
In fact I've only read up to about page 4
See above posts
Then stop talking to me and make more reads already!
Not gonna put down any deep thoughts or analysis except that if it's established that Zone is a wildcard (I've skipped a couple games, didn't realise this is his reputation here) then I'm gonna leave this clip here:


If there's a possibility of Zone cutting our brakes down the line, let's get rid of him now.
1. I like that video.
2. I really, reeeeaally wonder: After getting rid of me, will you all "find your beloved peace, undisturbed by the entity that is me"? I mean, I LITERALLY wasted everyone's whole first week by simply existing as myself. I wonder: Who will go after me? The pacifist, the nihilist or the scapegoat?
He seems to fill in the shoes of the more vocal players when they're not around anymore, but for that to happen it has to be pretty late game.
Uh... For the record, that was only because I was TI, and was in a Neighborhood. Using that meta to defend me in a BB Mountainous game is basically asking to get suspected.
Oh yeah, right. I've been paying a lot less attention to this game and really just been waiting for the next competition to go up. I didn't have anything interesting to add or to reply to other people's thoughts so I figured making a post saying "I've got nothing" wouldn't do anything for the game.
*drags Violet down with me*
I have been dragged multiple times by multiple people in the past to go actively scumhunt and make reads.
If I have suffered, then I will make you suffer as well.
/FoS Violet
If I'm nominated, I'd win the veto and use it to take myself off the block. If not I'd look through the thread, see if it'd be a good idea to save one of the nominees if I think they're town and then attempt to win and act accordingly with the veto from there.
What you wrote is literally the game mechanics. Nothing about it is game dynamics nor aesthetics. In other words: You are saying zilch about other players.
/FoS Violet even more
Last game is a perfect example: Zone's chaoticness forced at least 4 people to claim unnecessarily and it choked up the discussions that other active players were trying to have.
Yep, and guess how that game ended. You should know it: You were the host.
This is precisely why I have stopped interacting with Zone, by the way.
#bestdecisions2019
From what I had input on in the first day we were worried about how Zone would affect us and that continued on through the entirety of the game. It’s incredibly difficult to account for Zone on both sides of the game and that’s general fact.
Yes it is. So now I wonder: Why are you all interacting with me, focusing your thoughts about me, rather than ignoring me? Have I become so irresistable that you have to forget about everyone else~? About your fellow members who want to policy lynch me, are they 100% not susp for pointing their fingers at me~?
That being said, it seems you, Blink and Celever have made up your minds.
Add Geyde to that list. That makes it 4 people, which is basically 33% of everyone already. Well then: Can you feel the pressure? Are you ready to give in? I know you are. I would too, after all.
I dont mind going up as a pawn if you want to get Zone out.
This part -despite me not liking it, A LOT- makes sense. However...
If I Need to put myself at Danger to prove my alignment . So be it.
...this part, does NOT make sense. Agreeing to be a nominee is in NO way a way to proof your alignment. Especially when I am the first nominee.
 

Zone Q11

『Plebeian』『He who Hails from NovelUpdates Forum』
Member
Yes it is. So now I wonder: Why are you all interacting with me, focusing your thoughts about me, rather than ignoring me? Have I become so irresistable that you have to forget about everyone else~? About your fellow members who want to policy lynch me, are they 100% not susp for pointing their fingers at me~?
(Well then I wonder whether they know that I wrote this knowing that they have been talking about Nick. ...still, why are they not talking more about themselves? How come I have the feeling as if there is a hierarchy of "active people" who look down upon "inactive people"?)
 

Vom

livin' in a lonely world
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@bbninjas it was his posting as a whole (or lack thereof) rather than individual posts. You do raise valid points about his first posts, but that last one was pretty much echoing Celever. Eh, actually they were 3 minutes apart so he may or may not have seen Cel's post. Even if he didn't see it, he proceeded to not follow his own request (even up until this point). His read list is a thing, sure, but it was a response to Celever calling Nick out on his own post since until that point Nick had not given thoughts on anyone besides Zone, who Nick himself considers easy to read ("everyone is comfortable metareading him").

Like you said, his other posts have been responses to people. Obviously responding to people is good, but in doing so Nick avoided giving thoughts on potential nominees both times where I said I was thinking about nominating x and y (even when it was himself), and when I directly asked him about what he thought about being nominated, he chose to AtE rather than argue about other potential nominees or otherwise defend himself. I don't like that his go-to is AtE. This did happen after my initial tentative nomination tho, at least the specific AtE bit. But Nick hasn't commented on much and it's not a lack of material as others have been doing so. Just answering questions is enough so that people get an image when they see the name instead of thinking 'oh, I forgot he existed'.

Well, T minus 45 minutes. I'll wait a bit more if somehow someone is awake, but otherwise I'll be nominating Zone+mirdo.
 

mirdo

Seagull Overlord and Business Entrepreneur
Member
If you couldn't nominate yourself, who would you nominate as a second person?
I mean. If we are sure that Zone should go. Then some sort of Pawn should go up. And that could be anyone. I believe it's too early for me to throw suspecion on to anyone specific just yet. Im just kinda costing along until I have my own conclusions. (Can't wait till someone takes this as a super obvious mafia tell and that im definitly bad 100% proof)

...this part, does NOT make sense. Agreeing to be a nominee is in NO way a way to proof your alignment. Especially when I am the first nominee.
Ofc im not gonna be bullet proof against any suspecions afterwards. But it's *something*. Gotta make yourself useful somehow.

Gullbot 2000 over and out.
 

NinjaPenguin

Always standing out from the crowd.
Member
Week 1 Eviction
@Zone Q11 and @mirdo have been nominated for eviction, and since this is an odd-numbered week, we will be immediately moving into the vote and eviction. Everybody else has the next 24 hours to discuss with their fellow houseguests, make their decision about which of these two houseguests to evict and to PM me their vote to evict. The player with more votes to evict will be immediately evicted from the house.
As HoH, Vom will only vote in the case of a tie.

Additionally, a live competition has been scheduled for Sunday, March 17th, at 8:00 PM EST. It will last no more than 20 minutes. Please, along with your vote, PM me if you will be available then. If anybody is unavailable then, the competition will instead take place over 36 hours.

P.S.
The following players need to post at least once in the next 24 hours to meet the activity requirements for the week (this isn't a warning or anything, just giving you all the numbers to keep in mind):
Needs at least one more post:
@mirdo
Needs at least two more posts:
@mordacazir
Needs at least three more posts:
@GekkisaiDaiNi
Needs at least four more posts:
@Jadethepokemontrainer
P.P.S.
JCMaxwell has requested to sub out. I'm currently in the process of contacting the subs to see if they are available to sub in right now, and a replacement will sub in at the end of the week.
 
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bbninjas

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@bbninjas it was his posting as a whole (or lack thereof) rather than individual posts. You do raise valid points about his first posts, but that last one was pretty much echoing Celever. Eh, actually they were 3 minutes apart so he may or may not have seen Cel's post. Even if he didn't see it, he proceeded to not follow his own request (even up until this point). His read list is a thing, sure, but it was a response to Celever calling Nick out on his own post since until that point Nick had not given thoughts on anyone besides Zone, who Nick himself considers easy to read ("everyone is comfortable metareading him").

Like you said, his other posts have been responses to people. Obviously responding to people is good, but in doing so Nick avoided giving thoughts on potential nominees both times where I said I was thinking about nominating x and y (even when it was himself), and when I directly asked him about what he thought about being nominated, he chose to AtE rather than argue about other potential nominees or otherwise defend himself. I don't like that his go-to is AtE. This did happen after my initial tentative nomination tho, at least the specific AtE bit. But Nick hasn't commented on much and it's not a lack of material as others have been doing so. Just answering questions is enough so that people get an image when they see the name instead of thinking 'oh, I forgot he existed'.


You seem to be trying hard to show that Nick is still scummy, Vom, because you're making quite nuance / subtle arguements to justify your position (see italics). Would you agree with that assessment? If so, why are you so set on showing Nick to be scum; and if you disagree, why are continuing to present counter-arguements instead of just conceding?

I also have underlined the arguements that I think most people have done or would do at some point in this game but are not indicative.

Commenting on the AtE because it seems to be central to your arguement; Aqua answered the question you asked, which is apparently different to the question you meant. You asked what he felt (i.e. his emotions!) about being nominated, and so Aqua answered with his feelings (that he doesn't want to be lynched Day 1 for the third time in a row) as expected.

The "not given thoughts on anyone beside Zone" is also false. Post 1: he pressured Zone and considered Violet worthy of a HoH vote. Post 2: he called out Blinkey. Post 3: Asked Gekki to provide more content. Post 4: Gave a reads list as requested. Post 5, 6, 7: Answers questions about himself, which did not give the opportunity to "give thoughts on anyone". You could argue that Aqua should have taken the initiative; but did he take the initiative in his first posts? So Aqua takes initiative sometimes, and sometimes he doesn't. Sounds no different to anyone else tbh.


I mean. If we are sure that Zone should go.
The problem is that not everyone is sure.

Again, if you were forced to pick someone for HoH, who would you pick?
 
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