Fun Should Shaymin EX be tinned?

[asdjklghty]

That's not how it works. Regardless of whether a card is $45 or 5 cents, TCPi gets the same amount of money from it. They only get their money from sealed product. Singles being sold after being opened from a pack, deck, tin or whatever, none of that revenue goes to TCPi.

And pack sales drop drastically as time goes on. Meaning although Shaymin EX is very expensive and very hard to find, TCPi isn't making any extra money off of Roaring Skies from it. So if they release a tin with it, they'll be sure to make a ton of money since the demand is very high and the supply is low.

Um... you do know that well-known vendors get many of their cards sent to them by TPCi? They just sent a lot of distributors copies of Giratina EX before AO got released!

How often is the UR selling for $80 before the bulk of the orders are being filled?

Remember, the powers-that-be produce the cards and sell them to large distributors.

The large distributors place their initial orders before the set is released to the public.

They may reprint Shaymin but I highly doubt in a promo form. And going to a more relevant thing, Uxie was never reprinted, in a set or a promo. At this point, the chances for a promo Shaymin reprint is looking pretty bleak.

Also, I don't think TPCi cares too much about people not being able to get into the game. They've done this time and time again. Print a card. Maybe several times and then stop printing the card when it's still legal. This limits who can be competitive or at least fully enjoy the game and all. At least this is environmentally friendly!

 

[Tryptofaan]

Maybe a way for the new generation players is to make a similar card to Shaymin ex. The difference will be that that card is a holo rare and you can draw up to 5 cards instead of the 6 from Shaymin ex. The competitive players want the Shaymin ex and the new players, who can't afford the Shaymin, go for the holo rare.

This is in a way similar to Kecleon from Plasma Freeze and Mew ex from Dragons Exalted. Where you can copy all the attacks on the field with your Mew and Kecleon only those of the defending Pokémon.

 

[Scubasage]

Um... you do know that well-known vendors get many of their cards sent to them by TPCi? They just sent a lot of online shops copies of Giratina EX before the set got released!

They may reprint Shaymin but I highly doubt in a promo form. And going to a more relevant thing, Uxie was never reprinted, in a set or a promo. At this point, the chances for a promo Shaymin reprint is looking pretty bleak.

Do you have a source on that? This is the first I've heard of it. The only cards I know of that get sent from TCPi are prerelease promos (as part of the prerelease package they buy) and league promos (which are sent free). It's much more likely that those "well-known" vendors, like pretty much every other vendor in the business, just cracks open some of their own packs that they would have sold to get the singles ready for set release.

Uxie wasn't a Lv X or other EX equivalent back then. A more relevant example would be Deoxys EX, Lugia EX and Thundurus EX from back in the Big Basic Plasma days. Those were literally 3 EXes used in the best deck at the time, and all were reprinted in Tins. Those aren't splashable like Shaymin EX is either.

 

[asdjklghty]

Do you have a source on that? This is the first I've heard of it. The only cards I know of that get sent from TCPi are prerelease promos (as part of the prerelease package they buy) and league promos (which are sent free). It's much more likely that those "well-known" vendors, like pretty much every other vendor in the business, just cracks open some of their own packs that they would have sold to get the singles ready for set release.

Uxie wasn't a Lv X or other EX equivalent back then. A more relevant example would be Deoxys EX, Lugia EX and Thundurus EX from back in the Big Basic Plasma days. Those were literally 3 EXes used in the best deck at the time, and all were reprinted in Tins. Those aren't splashable like Shaymin EX is either.

I edited my post and quoted the source.

That's exactly why TPCi doesn't want to release it as a promo! MewTwo is slashable but it's not a support Pokemon. I don't understand why you can't see what I'm saying. Of course those 3 EXs you mentioned got released as promos. They aren't as useful as Shaymin is. TPCi wants people to either spend $30-40 for each Shaymin by which many won't want to or buy crates of booster boxes to hope to pull a couple. Either way, TPCi makes money. Whether vendors open up crates and resells them or people buy a bunch of packs, it makes no difference. TPCi wins.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

I think popular cards should be in tins for sure at some point, even more so when print runs start to dry up. It keeps the price of the card in the second market low and keeps the card around in circulation. What I think Pokemon should do is make Gold Series packs like Yugioh does where every card is a full art or something similar of rarity and make the set full of popular cards.

 

[Scubasage]

I edited my post and quoted the source.

For one, that quote isn't a source, that's just common sense. Those "initial orders" are for sealed product, not opened product. For another, TPCi makes absolute ZERO if people spend $40 for a Shaymin EX. That $40 is going entirely to the store selling the single, not TPCi. And the difference is that while they make an initial amount of money from selling the packs to vendors in the first place, they won't make more money off those packs without making another printing of them, and selling those newly printed ones to vendors. But vendors aren't selling the original packs, so why would they buy more stock that isn't moving? They wouldn't, so TPCi is printing less as demand for the packs drops, which means less money for them. Why aren't the original packs selling? Because any player who has their wits about them won't be buying packs in an attempt to get a Shaymin EX. They may buy at set launch in an attempt to get everything from the set, but after the first week people don't do that anymore, and people aren't buying packs in the hopes of pulling one specific card because the odds are way too low.

Printing Shaymin EX in a tin would be making much more money for TPCi, as they'd have an additional source of income that wasn't there before. You can say that any promo in any tin would count as an additional source of income, and while that's true, the demand for Shaymin EX is so high and the supply so low that it's a goldmine waiting to happen.

That's exactly why TPCi doesn't want to release it as a promo! MewTwo is slashable but it's not a support Pokemon. I don't understand why you can't see what I'm saying. Of course those 3 EXs you mentioned got released as promos. They aren't as useful as Shaymin is. TPCi wants people to either spend $30-40 for each Shaymin by which many won't want to or buy crates of booster boxes to hope to pull a couple. Either way, TPCi makes money. Whether vendors open up crates and resells them or people buy a bunch of packs, it makes no difference. TPCi wins.

Yes, thanks for strengthening my point. Why was that entire deck (Big Basic Plasma) made cheap by those reprints? Maybe for the same reason that Shaymin EX as a tin promo makes sense? Supply vs Demand, while making TPCi more money? Those cards certainly aren't splashable, that couldn't have been the reason they were made as tin promos. It was very likely to get more copies of those cards out there to meet the growing demand for them. Shaymin EX is in a similar boat right now.

Shaymin EX also makes sense in a tin for the reasons Mewtwo EX makes sense, by being splashable. It's just as splashable as Mewtwo, if not more so, which makes it a great choice as a tin promo by being able to fit into the deck of anyone who buys the tin, meaning the tin has a wider appeal to players in general. Competitive players who wanted a Plasma deck, for example, would buy the Plasma tins. Casual players who wanted a Plasma deck, would buy the tins. Casual players who didn't want a Plasma deck wouldn't buy the tins. In contrast, something splashable like Mewtwo EX or Shaymin EX, would have that third demographic buying the tins, because even if they didn't want to build, say, a psychic deck or a colorless deck, Mewtwo EX and Shaymin EX are very good and fit in their decks anyways.

 

[asdjklghty]

Printing Shaymin EX in a tin would be making much more money for TPCi, as they'd have an additional source of income that wasn't there before. You can say that any promo in any tin would count as an additional source of income, and while that's true, the demand for Shaymin EX is so high and the supply so low that it's a goldmine waiting to happen.

Did TPCi ever print Genesect EX in a tin? Why did they print the horrible Blastoise EX, etc for the Fall 2014 tins? Point is, why didn't they print many other things for an "additional source of income"?

Yes, thanks for strengthening my point. Why was that entire deck (Big Basic Plasma) made cheap by those reprints? Maybe for the same reason that Shaymin EX as a tin promo makes sense? Supply vs Demand, while making TPCi more money? Those cards certainly aren't splashable, that couldn't have been the reason they were made as tin promos. It was very likely to get more copies of those cards out there to meet the growing demand for them. Shaymin EX is in a similar boat right now.

You've completely missed the point of what I was saying. Were those Plasma Basics a necessity for every player? Why was there a non-Plasma deck called Black Kyurem/Blastoise/Keldeo floating around the same time? Because there were other competitive options other than Plasma. Speaking of Blastoise, care to explain Tropical Beach? It could easily have been reprinted as a league promo like other good cards. But no, TPCi wanted to limit those who could have it. Tropical Beach was necessary for Stage 2 decks even in a format faster than they ever saw before. In fact, while not perfectly similar, TB is like Shaymin in that its expensive and helped a lot of decks out. Shaymin isn't necessary for every deck like Manectric or Primal Groudon but it helps most decks out.

Is Shaymin necessary for many decks? Yes. It's a staple, but not one TPCi wants to make more accessible. Congrats for missing a crucial part of my previous post. TPCi doesn't care to make this one card more accessible.

 

[Scubasage]

Genesect EX was never in as much demand as the Plasmas were, or Mewtwo EX, or Shaymin EX now.

Blastoise EX was printed for several reasons. Nostalgia, tie in with XY giving the original starters, Mega Evolution being introduced in both the video games and the sets. Plus it made a nice set of 3 with Venusaur EX and Charizard EX, which all had the same reasons for being printed, and TPCi likes to do sets of 3 or 2 for their tins. 3 is much more common though.

Why don't they care to make it more accessible? You've stated that without providing any reasons for it, while I've provided plenty on why it would be a good idea for them to print it as a tin promo.

 

[asdjklghty]

Genesect EX was never in as much demand as the Plasmas were, or Mewtwo EX, or Shaymin EX now.

Blastoise EX was printed for several reasons. Nostalgia, tie in with XY giving the original starters, Mega Evolution being introduced in both the video games and the sets. Plus it made a nice set of 3 with Venusaur EX and Charizard EX, which all had the same reasons for being printed, and TPCi likes to do sets of 3 or 2 for their tins. 3 is much more common though.

Why don't they care to make it more accessible? You've stated that without providing any reasons for it, while I've provided plenty on why it would be a good idea for them to print it as a tin promo.

I've already stated that they want only a limited number of people to get it. See, you're on the side that hopes it should be in a tin. I'm on the side of seeing what has happened in the past since history repeats itself. Also, your presupposition is that they want to make cards always accessible but history shows this isn't the case. I guess money isn't always what drives people forward.

 

[redsky22]

It would be a really good idea I mean they are tinning hoopa ex so I think its just right for a card as good a shaymin so everyone can get it. As alot of people said though it would loose value but at this point and stage of the game every competitive deck runs 2-3 shaymins for draw support and i'm not paying 40$ to buy just 2 shaymins so I think it would be a good idea. The first time I bough a playset of shaymins it broke my bank just trying to get them to build rayquaza/shaymin.

 

[asdjklghty]

It would be a really good idea I mean they are tinning hoopa ex so I think its just right for a card as good a shaymin so everyone can get it. As alot of people said though it would loose value but at this point and stage of the game every competitive deck runs 2-3 shaymins for draw support and i'm not paying 40$ to buy just 2 shaymins so I think it would be a good idea. The first time I bough a playset of shaymins it broke my bank just trying to get them to build rayquaza/shaymin.

Wait now you agree that Shaymin will lose value?

Anyways, Hoopa EX is more specific while Shaymin is more versatile and fits more decks. That makes Hoopa less valuable and thus it can be tinned. I'm not hopeful for a tin at this point. The Fall tins were already announced and Pokemon older than 12 months don't get printed in a tin ever. A reprint in another set like an XY equivalent of Legendary Treasures is the only hope but I highly doubt it.

Also, there are competitive decks that don't run Shaymin like Primal Groudon or Mega Manectric with Garbodor which is here to stay for Fall Regionals.

 

[redsky22]

Wait now you agree that Shaymin will lose value?

Anyways, Hoopa EX is more specific while Shaymin is more versatile and fits more decks. That makes Hoopa less valuable and thus it can be tinned. I'm not hopeful for a tin at this point. The Fall tins were already announced and Pokemon older than 12 months don't get printed in a tin ever. A reprint in another set like an XY equivalent of Legendary Treasures is the only hope but I highly doubt it.

Also, there are competitive decks that don't run Shaymin like Primal Groudon or Mega Manectric with Garbodor which is here to stay for Fall Regionals.

1. I never said that i didn't agree that shaymin will lose value I understand when something gets tinned it looses value and am ok with that.
2. primal groudon is too slow in my opinion. Also garbodor will get rotated in a few days because the last reprint it had was in LTR and LTR is getting rotated to. The way I like to play is either fast and hard hitting or using lock decks so I kind of need shaymins for my fast place play.

 

[redsky22]

Maybe a way for the new generation players is to make a similar card to Shaymin ex. The difference will be that that card is a holo rare and you can draw up to 5 cards instead of the 6 from Shaymin ex. The competitive players want the Shaymin ex and the new players, who can't afford the Shaymin, go for the holo rare.

This is in a way similar to Kecleon from Plasma Freeze and Mew ex from Dragons Exalted. Where you can copy all the attacks on the field with your Mew and Kecleon only those of the defending Pokémon.

so octillery the one from breakthrough has an ability to draw up until you have 5 cards in your hand each turn the ability is called Ability: Abyss Hand. Granted its a stage 1 so its a little bit harder to get out but still its might be cheaper.

 

[asdjklghty]

1. I never said that i didn't agree that shaymin will lose value I understand when something gets tinned it looses value and am ok with that.
2. primal groudon is too slow in my opinion. Also garbodor will get rotated in a few days because the last reprint it had was in LTR and LTR is getting rotated to. The way I like to play is either fast and hard hitting or using lock decks so I kind of need shaymins for my fast place play.

Did you read my post clearly? I said in Regionals which will be in Expanded. That format will be way more relevant this year than ever before. All North American Regionals will be Expanded and Cities can be Standard or Expanded. Standard isn't that relevant except for States/Provincials and Nationals.

http://www.pokemon.com/us/play-pokemon/pokemon-events/pokemon-tournaments/

 

[Scubasage]

Wait now you agree that Shaymin will lose value?

I think you confused me with redsky22 since we both have no avatar

I've already stated that they want only a limited number of people to get it. See, you're on the side that hopes it should be in a tin. I'm on the side of seeing what has happened in the past since history repeats itself. Also, your presupposition is that they want to make cards always accessible but history shows this isn't the case. I guess money isn't always what drives people forward.

I know you've stated that. You haven't stated any reason for it though. There are reasons Uxie was never reprinted or printed in a tin that have nothing to do with whether or not TPCi thought it should be more accessible or not. I've stated them before. It wasn't a Lv. X, nor a Pokemon SP or whatever other EX-equivalent they had around at the time. It was just a regular rare, not even a Holofoil rare, on top of that.

 

[Lanstar]

I've already stated that they want only a limited number of people to get it. See, you're on the side that hopes it should be in a tin. I'm on the side of seeing what has happened in the past since history repeats itself. Also, your presupposition is that they want to make cards always accessible but history shows this isn't the case. I guess money isn't always what drives people forward.

I might point this out: TPCi might actually not want Shaymin-EX to become limited like that.

As proof, the PTCG Online did an update that added a tutorial that once you completed, you got a simple custom theme deck, and a booster pack. The odd part: the Booster Pack (A Roaring Skies one) was programmed so that it guaranteed to have... well a Shaymin EX in it. (At least all the people I asked, as well as me, pulled it! xD)

Given how much heavy usage Shaymin has in the metagame, tinning it wouldn't be a bad idea at all... Unless they find it so broken later that they'd be willing to ban it from tournaments. That would be quite hilarious if this really happened! ^_^

 

[asdjklghty]

I might point this out: TPCi might actually not want Shaymin-EX to become limited like that.

As proof, the PTCG Online did an update that added a tutorial that once you completed, you got a simple custom theme deck, and a booster pack. The odd part: the Booster Pack (A Roaring Skies one) was programmed so that it guaranteed to have... well a Shaymin EX in it. (At least all the people I asked, as well as me, pulled it! xD)

Given how much heavy usage Shaymin has in the metagame, tinning it wouldn't be a bad idea at all... Unless they find it so broken later that they'd be willing to ban it from tournaments. That would be quite hilarious if this really happened! ^_^

Omg I've said this time and time again. Was Uxie ever reprinted? No. You guys keep having the presupposition that TPCi wants to make the game still very accessible.

Update: I only got a Rayquaza EX from the pack.

 

[CYL]

That's not how it works. Regardless of whether a card is $45 or 5 cents, TCPi gets the same amount of money from it. They only get their money from sealed product. Singles being sold after being opened from a pack, deck, tin or whatever, none of that revenue goes to TCPi.

And pack sales drop drastically as time goes on. Meaning although Shaymin EX is very expensive and very hard to find, TCPi isn't making any extra money off of Roaring Skies from it. So if they release a tin with it, they'll be sure to make a ton of money since the demand is very high and the supply is low.

Think that's right. Even if they produced a whole lot more of Roaring Skies and didn't reprint Shaymin, it doesn't mean that people continue buying the packs. On the other hand, making a tin would make them a lot of profit because, let's face it, they're usually ripping us off for our tins. We're paying quite a lot for tins; even if you subtract the boosters inside, you're still paying a substantial amount for the tin and the card, which they take as the perfect reason to charge you 20 times the money needed to produce it.

 

[CYL]

I might point this out: TPCi might actually not want Shaymin-EX to become limited like that.

As proof, the PTCG Online did an update that added a tutorial that once you completed, you got a simple custom theme deck, and a booster pack. The odd part: the Booster Pack (A Roaring Skies one) was programmed so that it guaranteed to have... well a Shaymin EX in it. (At least all the people I asked, as well as me, pulled it! xD)

Given how much heavy usage Shaymin has in the metagame, tinning it wouldn't be a bad idea at all... Unless they find it so broken later that they'd be willing to ban it from tournaments. That would be quite hilarious if this really happened! ^_^

Sorry to break your point, but I pulled a Rayquaza-EX from that one. Still, I think your point stands as Ray is also a large part of the metagame now.
I doubt they would ban it. They would have to ban a whole lot of cards if they started banning one. Especially since they could reason that Lysandre 'removed a winning condition', but they can't do the same for Shaymin.

 

[CYL]

Omg I've said this time and time again. Was Uxie ever reprinted? No. You guys keep having the presupposition that TPCi wants to make the game still very accessible

Look. It's been said two times before - once by me and once by Scuba - and you're not getting the point.
On one hand, TPCi does want the game to be accessible. If you're a kid who likes playing but could equally play some other TCG game, and the one card required in the current Pokémon metagame is $50 apiece, why would you continue playing? That leads to TPCi losing revenue as players become disinterested due to its inaccessibility.
On the other hand, TPCi only cares about revenue. How much Shaymin-EX is sold for by large sites like Troll & Toad or users on Ebay doesn't change how much money they get. Tinning the Shaymin would make a lot of players pounce on it, which would increase their revenue.
Legends Awakened was released around August 2008. The next tins to come out were the 2008 Fall Collector's Tins, which featured Mewtwo LV.X and Rhyperior LV.X. Uxie was a regular rare, not a holo, not a LV.X. They simply couldn't have tinned it because it wasn't a LV.X!