Will Keldeo be the BCIF?

I love how 90%+ of the people in this thread didn't read the OP. If they did, they would have noticed the words (Pokemon wise) after BCIF.

Keldeo may or may not see a rise in play after Plasma Gale, but imo Mewtwo will definitely get worse. Blastoise Keldeo currently gets destroyed by Mewtwo, but with the new BKEX that came out it can OHKO Mewtwo easily and its nearly impossible for Mewtwo to get the revenge KO. Something nobody has mentioned though is Darkrai-after all, if Keldeo needs it or Blastoise to function, and Darkrai needs nothing to function and has several metagame decks in which it is the main attacker, AND its more splashable, I'd say Darkrai is the BPCIF.
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First off even if it regards the use of it pokemon wise it's just a tech, if it's played in it's own deck it has a better response play wise but still that doesn't change much regardless, black kyurem makes it even more as such so regardless its just a really good tech (you pretty much listed why it's not BCIF), darkrai bPcif, lol.
 
Dark Void said:
Something nobody has mentioned though is Darkrai-after all, if Keldeo needs it or Blastoise to function, and Darkrai needs nothing to function and has several metagame decks in which it is the main attacker, AND its more splashable, I'd say Darkrai is the BPCIF.
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Sableye is really the backbone that makes the Darkrai decks so good and are usually exceptionally vital in pulling off anything like T2 Night Spears, bringing back resources for later in the game, etc. Technically everything requires _something_ that makes it better. Mewtwo would be a lot weaker without Energy accleration cards like Eelektrik/Blastoise, etc. But considering all it needs is a DCE, it's much faster than Darkrai which pretty much needs Dark Patch, etc.

dmaster out.
 
Mewtwo is the best, but I think Keldeo is up there. I would rank it as the third best EX (behind darkrai and mewtwo).
 
I actually have to disagree. Mewtwo was the BCIF in BW-BC because it was a counter to Keldeo/Blastoise, the BDIF. Now, however, Mewtwo is next to useless against all the metagame decks, because Blastoise has BKEX to kill you, and X ball does almost nothing to it in return. Klinklang is immune to Mewtwo, and Darkrai resists it. Keldeo is probably the BCIF in my eyes, because it can be teched into anything, but unlike mewtwo, it's actually useful most of the time, what with HTL, catcher, and other things existing.
 
Puff-Sun said:
I actually have to disagree. Mewtwo was the BCIF in BW-BC because it was a counter to Keldeo/Blastoise, the BDIF. Now, however, Mewtwo is next to useless against all the metagame decks, because Blastoise has BKEX to kill you, and X ball does almost nothing to it in return. Klinklang is immune to Mewtwo, and Darkrai resists it. Keldeo is probably the BCIF in my eyes, because it can be teched into anything, but unlike mewtwo, it's actually useful most of the time, what with HTL, catcher, and other things existing.
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I agree with this. Catcher has been a major card this format, and if I am right then HTL will be as well. Only Keldeo can counteract HTL and catcher besides switch (without stadium retreat shenanigans, which likely won't help with Virbank Gym out now) You can play Keldeo in almost any deck while Mewtwo can just be detrimental. Sure Mewtwo can have unlimited damage output, but that's a "what if" statement. It's like when I played my Darmanitan/Eels deck. Sure I could do 200 damage and ohko anything if I flipped all heads...but that usually didn't happen (I did do 500 damage to a sigilyph once haha)

ATM if you gave me two cards to choose from, I'd take the FA Keldeo ;)
 
Like I said in my previous post, everything is based on a meta call, With no HTL in the format, isn't Darkrai an easier retreat? And people saying that Keldeo is versatile because of its colorless requirement, is ridiculous. If you are really in a position that you have to load a 3 energy Keldeo just to do 50 damage, you might as well scoop at that point. HTL is a good card but people forget that its a very difficult deck not only to operate, but to take to a tournament is well. The skill it takes to play Darkrai/Sableye is severely underrated as well as tons of people are forgetting that Darkrai has to sacrifice consistency to tech for PlasmaKlang. HTL is good, but it is not the end all be all card. People are talking HTL up like its the next Catcher and its really not. I have to agree with the folks on here that talk about cards like Juniper and N being great cards, because they are. There staples and I personally like Juniper more than Catcher. Also people saying that Mewtwo is no longer viable because BKEX is taking over Keldeo is insane. Yes Mewtwo is not nearly as effective since they discard the energy, but there are other decks in the format, as well as Mewtwo still being good in Blastoise itself. Mewtwo will still see play in most decks until it rotates. Deoxys-EX will tame it, but it will still see play. I have been playing since August and I have never played in a tournament without a copy of Mewtwo EX. I have also not gone to a tournament without at least 50% of the people I play having at least 1 copy of Mewtwo EX. There is a reason that Mewtwo EX is the most expensive of the 3 fall promos. Mewtwo EX is an extremely powerful card.

I also don't deny that Keldeo is not good, but HTL does not make Keldeo a staple in every deck. The chance of sleep sticking from a Hypnotoxic Laser into your turn is a mere 25%. It will happen on occasion, but not incredibly often. The biggest issue that HTL brings is, you have to have some way to retreat without discarding your energy. Whether that is by Dark Cloak, Switch, or Skyarrow it doesn't matter. What is important is that you get rid of that poison. I don't like decks teching in Keldeo without Darkrai simply because you still get stuck having to retreat a 2RC Pokemon. One that will likely be a sitting duck worth 2 prizes if you don't retreat it. I don't think that it is the worst idea ever, but for just that 25% chance that sleep sticks, I personally won't tech in a Pokemon that is worth 2 prizes that will do nothing but rush in and sit there. Especially since you will probably only see HTL less than 50% of the time (being broad here, but you get my point. HTL is not the only deck that exists). A tech should be fairly universally useful. Teching for your bad matchup is ruining consistency. Bad matchups are bad matchups. Accept it and move on. Teching a Virizion to beat Blastoise is a bad idea, when in the 1-3 games you face Blastoise in a tournament it might not even help. Teching a Mewtwo to counter other Mewtwos is a great idea because its universal. Teching a non-ex Dragon into decks that match the energy type is another not-so-bad idea coming into this new format. Consistency is always better than techs, however techs should be as close to universal as they can get, with the exceptions being of course ways for decks like Darkrai to get around Sigilyph and Klingklang where it is just a complete lock.
 
Keldeo is actually fantastic as a tech in Eel decks (it already was played in Rayquaza/Eels before Plasma Storm released, so there's that). Out of the three top decks (IMO), they will all most likely have a Keldeo either teched in to give options to accelerate to the Bench (Dynamotor/Dark Patch), attack (Keldeo decks) or just get rid of Poison sometimes (Darkrai). So saying Keldeo in decks without Darkrai is bad is not really correct.

The only deck that probably doesn't need it is Klinklang since they run upwards of 3/4 Switch and possibly Escape Rope, but even then, teching one with a Darkrai isn't totally bad.

dmaster out.
 
I was more talking about teching it just for the laser. I completely agree with you on Rayquaza though due to the fact that its runs Skyarrow.
 
Well, the card can have other uses besides having it _just_ for the Laser.

Obviously, that is a big bonus of the card. Being able to "retreat" without Retreating during your turn is awesome for a variety of uses. It can also 2HKO Landorus EX for three Energies of any type which can make it a makeshift attacker should you need it. Because it can serve a variety of purposes, I find it much more than a normal lowly "tech card" than some others may think.

dmaster out.
 
Maybe it is just me, but I think that Mewtwo is fairly slowly making its way out of the meta decks (it is around me), but that is largely because decks seem to be really tight after lasers and keldeo is just more versatile than mewtwo. Also doesn't always (sometimes, but not always) suffer from revengeKOitus. That being said, to give you a feel for the local players around me, Gallade is being looked at over mewtwo because you can set something else up and power up his attack. And one prize over two. I would go with Keldeo.
 
How is Keldeo more versatile than Mewtwo? The Keldeo vs. Mewtwo thing varies from deck to deck, but Mewtwo is a far stronger attacker in any deck that is not Blastoise mainly, KKK and Empoleon. Keldeo's Rush in is a great ability, but I wouldn't call it a good attacker without its support. Mewtwo can literally be played in any deck that plays energy and be a decent attacker. Mewtwo is undeniably the most versatile card in the game and arguably one of the best cards in the game.
 
As much as I feel comfortable with Blastoise/Keldeo I feel in any other deck, Keldeo could only be used as a tech and what not. Mewtwo has no reason to have a deck with it, therefore a card with just teching abilities, but still works better on colorless energy than Keldeo. I feel that Mewtwo Ex Is BCIF
 
Keldeo EX is a counter for catcher, HTL, and prlz, but Mewtwo EX is a counter for almost any pokemon in this meta, even it self. When the next set comes, we will see a lot of players dropping Mewtwo because of Deoxys EX, but until then, Mewtwo EX is the BCIF as far as Pokemons go.
 
I said that keldeo is more versatile due to that it can attack using any energy and has an ability that lets you break HTL and catcher. Mewtwo is a counter for most any pokemon in the meta, but only if that pokemon runs a lot of energy, so really mostly mewtwo and keldeo. Darkrai is resistant, landorus can use land's judgement and tornadus can discard energies by power blast. Keldeo's attack isn't dependent on your opponents pokemon. I realize that it's really only a counter to landorus though. I suppose that overall, mewtwo is probably a better card, but I definitely would prefer keldeo. Rush in and a decent attack (with prisms) mostly without the risk of a revenge KO is preferable over destroying an attacker only to lose mewtwo to another mewtwo. IMO
 
The way I see it is this topic basically is asking, ‘What will the new meta look like? And will Keldeo be really good?’
Here are some thoughts I have had maybe you guys agree or not lets find out.
HTL and Virbank will affect the meta, OHKO’s will be even more abundant and anticipating how much damage you will take on opponents turns will be very hard. When used most effectively your pokemon will not be around the next turn for you to worry about the poison or sleep conditions but occasionally you will.
Ether will have a small impact on the meta in making some decks faster and less predictable.
But the biggest impact will come from Plasma Kling Klang, and that impact will be huge. Probably bigger than Blastoise/Keldeo did to the last Meta. No I am not calling plasmaKlang BDIF but the fact that it is out there and a possible mach up has huge implications on the other decks in the format. I know we had Sygliph already that had to be accounted for but it just isn’t the same as before.
This is why I Think so, from Next Destinies through Boundaries Crossed, the outright power and speed of EX’s just dominated especially when paired with energy acceleration and the board control that is Catcher. Sygliph exploited this but just wasn’t as fast or versatile as other big basics that fit smoothly into the EX decks, to totally change the meta. Another way to say that is: decks could “tech” for Sygliph without really changing their design or consistency. Plasma Klang however can be as fast as turn two and run attackers like Cobalion and Cobalion EX with some very good attacks so it does have the speed and versitility.
Now I believe the super fast decks could hit this wall and fall apart so they have to change, as a side benefit the entire meta slows down, we will see more non EX decks introducing a wide variety of strategies that must be accounted for and a lot more prizes that have to be taken (as opposed to double prize EX KO’s). Garbedor, Gardevore/Galade, Rattatata, Empolion maybe even Garchomp could be competitive Plus a lot more rogue ideas I have seen.
On the Mewtwo front this is good and bad. One of his best features was that he won the speed EX war very efficiently and this will happen less and as was pointed out very nicely by Puff-Sun he has bad matchups with BKEX, Klingklang and Darkrai. On the other hand with more stage two decks out there there is much, MUCH more chance of Mewtwo donking that lone basic start, we all remember from before the EX era.
As for Keldeo, he is very good with Blastoise, as we all have experienced from the wrong side of the table once or twice I am sure, but even in his own deck he probably will see less play as stated above BKEX will be popular and the deck has to run answers for KlingKlang in the form of non ex attackers.
As for a tech in other decks I believe he is outshined by the fact that you can now run up to thirteen items that will either switch out your active or remove Special conditions from them.
 
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