Why is LostCario Still Underrated?

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Card Slinger J

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I don't get it, it's a great deck when you get the setup going and it can sweep for prizes despite that it's close and worst matchup is against MewGar. I know it didn't see that much play at Nats this year which I expected as much. I've managed to beat MewGar at least once with LostCario, including ReshiBoar with RDL, Tyranitar, DonChamp, among other decks as well.

So what's the deal? It's still a great Rogue Deck to play. Do you really expect every deck to run Lost World just to counter against this deck is that why everyone is afraid to play it? In other matchups Lost World is a dead card in hand just like with why Lost Remover sees less play nowadays because of deckspace. I'm probably one of the last few players in my area that still runs Rogue decks in Pokemon (sort of).
 
That still doesn't make LostCario a horrible deck, MewGar didn't even top at U.S. Nationals this year but it still saw a fair amount of play though. Just because LostCario faces against MewGar that isn't a garaunteed autoloss, If you setup fast enough before they do you still have a chance to win. I've seen how MewGar is played early game and I can beat it If I get the timing right.

Though while the potential isn't seen that much it's still there, every deck in HGSS-On will have a potential autoloss to at least 1 deck in the format but that doesn't make it not worth running at all. Unlike yourself I don't expect to force myself to go meta with what everybody else is running and try to run a deck that not very many people are playing that is still solid and has potential that can beat other good decks in the format.

True I have gone meta before in the last 2 formats with Charizard, Mother Gengar, Metal Blastoise, and FlyChamp but now I'm appreciating going rogue more than being meta but sometimes I have no choice. Sometimes you can't resist playing a Modified legal deck based on one of your favorite Pokemon as for my case it was like that. I remember when I started playing back in DP-On I used to pwn with Kingdra LA and it was a blast, heck Torterrible was solid back then as well.
 
I think the real reason is more so that Lostcario is a lot more irritating to set up than most other decks. You are basically hoping to get a Relicanth start (or maybe a Mew start) and start LZing cards in your hand - but you have to have a Pokemon in your hand to make it the most effective. And then you'll need to start setting up Lucario after Lucario without running out of supplies in your hand.

I mean, the deck idea is great; I just don't think it gets set up all that quickly, and the setup is actually more situational than most other cards...
 
Even If you don't get a Relicanth start you can always count on either Mew Prime or
Absol Prime to setup for you with a Rescue or Rainbow Energy attachment. Absol should be a last resort If you're going up against Donphan unless you hit a Collector in hand.

It's not that hard to get Pokemon in your hand to send to the Lost Zone with PONT and Pokemon Communication. PONT definitely helps but it's better than nothing, perhaps a Cleffa start might come in handy but Cleffa is just a free prize for your opponent to take including Tyrogue. Perhaps Cleffa does help make the deck faster with Eeeek, you be the judge.

Rescue Energy is supposed to help make sure you don't run out of Lucario, it has it's special niche in the deck so to speak. If you seriously think LostCario is too situational then you obviously never played the deck before or went up against it especially on RedShark. Here's the decklist of it incase you're curious, at least this is how I run my version of it:

Pokemon (24)

4-4 Lucario CoL
3-3 Zoroark
4 Relicanth CoL
3 Mew Prime
2 Absol Prime
0-0-1 Jumpluff

Trainers/Supporters (24)

4 Pokemon Collector
4 Pokemon Communication
4 Professor Oak's New Theory
4 Judge
3 Switch
3 Energy Exchanger
2 Twins

Energies (12)

4 Rainbow Energy
4 Double Colorless
4 Rescue Energy

Deck Total: 60
 
Card Slinger J said:
That still doesn't make LostCario a horrible deck, MewGar didn't even top at U.S. Nationals this year but it still saw a fair amount of play though. Just because LostCario faces against MewGar that isn't a garaunteed autoloss, If you setup fast enough before they do you still have a chance to win. I've seen how MewGar is played early game and I can beat it If I get the timing right.

Though while the potential isn't seen that much it's still there, every deck in HGSS-On will have a potential autoloss to at least 1 deck in the format but that doesn't make it not worth running at all. Unlike yourself I don't expect to force myself to go meta with what everybody else is running and try to run a deck that not very many people are playing that is still solid and has potential that can beat other good decks in the format.

True I have gone meta before in the last 2 formats with Charizard, Mother Gengar, Metal Blastoise, and FlyChamp but now I'm appreciating going rogue more than being meta but sometimes I have no choice. Sometimes you can't resist playing a Modified legal deck based on one of your favorite Pokemon as for my case it was like that. I remember when I started playing back in DP-On I used to pwn with Kingdra LA and it was a blast, heck Torterrible was solid back then as well.
Click to expand...

Mewgar is not the only kind of Lost Zone deck that exists. Someone made it top Top32 with Gengar(with Mews in it), so the deck did well.

As for the reason the deck isn't played? It requires you to start Relicanth or Mew. Then, it requires multiple turns of you wasting attacks to power up damage on a Lucario. While that is happening, the opponent can be taking prizes. Then, when Lucario is finally set up, it is so easily one-shot(only 90 HP) by most things in the format that it doesn't matter if you do a bunch of damage.

To one-shot an active Yanmega(to use an example of a very popular meta card), you need a whopping 5 Pokemon in the Lost Zone. That's 5 turns without attacking. That means, if your opponent has a Yanmega t2, they can take 4 prizes. They one-shot your Relicanth with Linear Attack, and one-shot your Mews with Sonicboom. This may be just ONE example, but this one example is also one you'll be seeing plenty of. It's not that the deck is bad, it's just that it isn't that good, either. It fails to stack up well against Meta decks. It takes 5 energy to kill a Reshiram. It takes 5 to kill Yanmega. It takes 6 to kill a Donphan. 6 to kill Emboar. 6 for Machamp. 7 for Samurott(7!). These are just a few examples of popular pokemon(not necessarily tier 1, but popular nonetheless) that your "rogue" deck would have to face. All of those Pokemon would take so many turns of removing that by the time your set up with your weak attacker, they are close to winning the game, if they haven't already.

I'm sorry. The deck is just...bad. Running Lucario in a deck where you have other attackers(like Absol, for example) isn't as bad, but again, it's still pretty bad. The card had the potential to deal the most damage when Palkia G Lv.X was in format. Unfortunately, it wasn't anything game-breaking then, and it isn't anywhere near that level now.
 
So you're telling me I should tear this deck apart and build something else
like I did with Tyranitar? What do you expect me to play that is fast and runs mostly Powerful Basic and Stage 1 Pokemon? I can get at least 5 Pokemon in my Lost Zone in just 3-4 turns setting up...

5 energy to kill a Reshiram when I could use Zoroark to Foul Play it with Blue Flare despite not having a Special Dark for a close KO? Mew Prime is my counter against Machamp with at least 2-3 Pokemon in my Lost Zone. You seriously think I'm mainly going to be attacking with Lucario the whole time while not using my other backup attackers?

You're telling me that I need to tear this deck apart when I'm getting a Mew Prime in the mail, that's a load of epic fail. You think I enjoy tearing apart decks? -____-
 
Card Slinger J said:
So you're telling me I should tear this deck apart and build something else
like I did with Tyranitar? What do you expect me to play that is fast and runs mostly Powerful Basic and Stage 1 Pokemon? I can get at least 5 Pokemon in my Lost Zone in just 3-4 turns setting up...

5 energy to kill a Reshiram when I could use Zoroark to Foul Play it with Blue Flare despite not having a Special Dark for a close KO? Mew Prime is my counter against Machamp with at least 2-3 Pokemon in my Lost Zone. You seriously think I'm mainly going to be attacking with Lucario the whole time while not using my other backup attackers?

You're telling me that I need to tear this deck apart when I'm getting a Mew Prime in the mail, that's a load of epic fail. You think I enjoy tearing apart decks? -____-
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Why make a thread asking for opinions if you're just going to complain when people tell you that your idea isn't awesome.

Lostcario is by no means a good idea, you 'do' autoloss to mewgar seeing as you're doing all the work for it, also as was the mentioned all the turns you need to drop pokemon into the lost zone to kill anything major will take too long and you're opponent will have set up and start taking prizes, pretty much giving them the game.

Additionally how should people know that you've had to de-construct a deck recently and if so then wouldn't the smart move have to get the public opinion before building a new deck instead of spending money then moaning at everyone else
 
You really don't need to give me such a hard time The Pain, I don't like it when I've had some success with a deck I recently built only to tear it apart again but that's a part of the game I've had difficulty accepting, that's what happens when players go Rogue.

You're telling me that I could've bothered building something that's already garaunteed to work well in the current metagame when I shouldn't have taken a chance to go Rogue to see how well my Rogue deck stacks up in my local metagame, well I did and it didn't work and I'll try again til I get it right.

I see that it's a money pit but I don't have the luxury of testing online decks like on RedShark or the Online version of the Pokemon TCG unless it's a necessary requirement instead of having to spend the money to play the actual deck itself through testing it in League and Sanctioned Events.
 
I'm not giving you a hard time I'm being honest and at any point did I mention testing?... no! I believe I brought up the fact that you're whining about a thread you could have created before building the deck.

Also I don't think I ever stated don't go rogue either my current deck is a rogue build, the difference is I'm not coming online with it then complaining when the rest of the world doesn't agree with me.

Finally I don't test online in the slightest, in place of that I proxy cards for deck and make sure I have the real thing by the time we hit a tournament
 
Yeah you have a point with the proxies, true I shouldn't be complaining about my deck however at least I got the hard details I needed out of it to build a better deck that isn't nearly as flawed...
 
Well the only decks that will give you a headache are Donphan and LostGar. Donphan is very common and Yanmega is also a pain especially when they snipe off your Riolus.
 
I run my mewcario deck totally differently. I get out Mew as fast as possible, see off a crobat prime, and start skill diving for cheap prizes. If they opponent brings in a powerful pokemon like zekrom, reshiram, donphan, etc. I sever poison it and it only lasts one more turn. Lucario is more for back-up. I generally never see off more than 1 card, the only way lucario gets powered up more is if I use absol or relicanth to LZ more stuff. As such I have a chance of beating Lostgar (not advantageous, but not autoloss) because I only need 1 card LZed to begin sweeping.
 
I tried lostcario recently and found that my opponents only gave me on average two pokemon in the lost zone before they started knocking out relicanths. Which only gives me a measly 70 damage with lucario. Now if there were a better way of lost zoning pokemon, then yes, lucario has potential.

I think your best bet is to use absol and get some damage while powering up lucario.
 
Even If you use Absol Prime early game, Donphan Prime will still OHKO it including Zekrom fully charged on T1 or T2. This deck is terrible because it risks itself into setting up before they get rid of your setup and most likely they will get rid of your setup while not having a chance to make a comeback while they will be ahead on prizes. I've been having similiar test results with LostCario as well too amisheskimoninja and while it did great against some decks I played against it just doesn't cut the mold.

There's also a problem with attacking with Absol Prime, it needs 2 energies to attack while Donphan Prime only needs 1 and Yanmega Prime needs none with the backup of Copycat and/or Judge with Insight to basically use Linear Attack and Sonicboom for no energy attachments. By the time you have energies set up it would already be too late as they can OHKO before you have a chance to attack at all. Then If you add Pokemon Catcher to that, they can 2HKO just about anything on your bench.
 
Card Slinger J said:
So you're telling me I should tear this deck apart and build something else
like I did with Tyranitar? What do you expect me to play that is fast and runs mostly Powerful Basic and Stage 1 Pokemon? I can get at least 5 Pokemon in my Lost Zone in just 3-4 turns setting up...

5 energy to kill a Reshiram when I could use Zoroark to Foul Play it with Blue Flare despite not having a Special Dark for a close KO? Mew Prime is my counter against Machamp with at least 2-3 Pokemon in my Lost Zone. You seriously think I'm mainly going to be attacking with Lucario the whole time while not using my other backup attackers?

You're telling me that I need to tear this deck apart when I'm getting a Mew Prime in the mail, that's a load of epic fail. You think I enjoy tearing apart decks? -____-
Click to expand...

Mew CAN be used in other decks, you know. And yes, yes I am telling you that. Tear the deck apart. If you really think going rogue means you wont ever have to build a new deck, then you really fail at grasping the concept of a rogue. The deck isn't that good. I don't care if your attacking in 3-4 turns. Again. A single Yanmega can rip through the deck. "Oh no...a Mew! I'll use Sonicboom." Against Lucario, it takes a bunch of lost zoned Pokemon.

As for 5 Pokemon in 3-4 turns...I ask you this: how? Unless I've missed some epic combo...I would know that there is no way to get multiple Pokemon into the lost zone, with your own attack, in a single turn. You cant see off Pokemon equal to the amount of energy...you cant remove more than one and draw 3 extra for each you removed...you cant double damage and remove 2 with Absol...so how, Card Slinger, do you remove 5 Pokemon in UNDER that amount of turns?

Also, attacking against Reshirams or Zekroms. Yes, you can Foul Play them. So you MUST knock them out. Because putting damage on them instead of knocking them out is useless. They'll take a prize every turn. Unless you can somehow keep the stream of Zoroarks coming, with Doubles, AND strike the first KO on their basic Zekrom or Reshiram, I find it difficult to see how you win in a prize race against that matchup, I really do.

Back up attackers? That's what Lucario is; a back-up attacker. Starting Pokemon so you can specifically attack with Lucario is a bad deck to play, and a bad way to play. A friend ran Mew Absol, and attacked with Absol with the intent of taking prizes with Absol and Mew, and then FINISHING with Lucario. Lucario IS the back-up. He's a terrible main attacker.

Trust me, the deck is just...bad. It's rogue, not meta, for a reason. No good Mew decks ran Lucario at all. It's wasted space on a weak attacker that requires to much to "get set-up".
 
LostCario (Or as I like to call it, MewCario), is yes, very very underrated. But overall, it is not a Tier 1/2/3 deck, and is more rogue.

Having played against one, it really isn't hard to catch it off guard with Reverals to drag up things that aren't set-up (At times, Mew/Absol/Bouffalant).

Also, you can't get too much in the LZ before your opponent is completely setup, which can hurt you a lot.

Underrated, yes. Meta/Tier, no.
 
The biggest problem with LostCario is that you can only LZ 1 Pokemon a turn. You sacrifice a prize in order to get set up, which normally isn't bad, but you can only get about 2 Pokemon Lost Zoned within that time. How I find Mew decks run better is to Relicanth for the first couple of turns while I get a Absol powered up. Then you can start to take Prizes, and Mew is there for support (along with Boufalant, Zoroark, and Lucario). Just Lost Zone a Crobat Prime, Zoroark and Cinccino and your set. But a T2 Yanmega/Donphan just sweeps through this deck. Those decks are just too fast and hard hitting. Its possible to win, but extremely difficult. The meta decks just tear it apart.
 
Like most others have said, Lucario has a really low damage output for what you have to give into it. It also has low HP, so you can't really stabilize anything for a long time. You're better off just using Mew as a sort of tech, or a side attacker.
 
I actually think cardslingers got a point,hes got counters for many decks here(machamp<-mew) and even for lostgar(absol->ggar)while you oneshot them...and mews too...and zoroark for RDL,reshi,zeek...as a rogue..it does have a goodlist..and if only it had somthind to hit for consistent decent damage and having more than 100 hp...it might be playable...
 
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