'VMAX Rising,' Japan's February Set!

Discussion in 'Pokémon Trading Card Game' started by Water Pokémon Master, Nov 30, 2019.

  1. Yaginku Aspiring Trainer
    Yaginku

    Member

    Because you're dumbing down gameplay and deckbuilding significantly. We already have a balanced baseline in "one energy per turn", there's no need to look for another one.
     


  2. CrownAxe Aspiring Trainer
    CrownAxe

    Member

    What is there to dumb down? Attaching energy isn't exactly a big brain move just because you do it manually. It's not the interesting part of the game. As long as the game is consistent and balanced about the rate of energy attachment then it doesn't matter how fast or slow it is. And frankly I find slow to be a snooze fest
     
  3. Yaginku Aspiring Trainer
    Yaginku

    Member

    Resource managment is a core aspect of any game of this type. If I can consistently power up any attack from any situation, you're throwing out that entire aspect of the game out of the window.
    "As long as the game is balanced" - it already it balanced, because everyone attaches one energy per turn. It's literally impossible to balance 8+ different types of acceleration, unless everyone get an in-color Welder or something.
     
  4. The Rhyperior I am still Mr. Rhyperior
    The Rhyperior

    Member

    Didn't realize until someone on the YT comment section comments it. Do you really need to play Marnie every turn just to spam 160+?
     
  5. Wechselbalg *****
    Wechselbalg

    Member

    I think it beats having to play Judge every turn + having to set up at least 2 squishy bench sitters. But yeah, it's not a great card.
     
  6. Wynter Griffing 49/500 CP
    Wynter Griffing

    Member

    I like tech cards like this. It's not amazing, but I'd be stonked if I saw this in a list for a legit deck.
     
  7. AbyssalHand Surge Double Bellelba
    AbyssalHand

    Member

    we should revert to all non-gxs/vs, etc. less money for the execs but at least the game would be more tactical and fun overall
     
    Wynter Griffing likes this.
  8. CrownAxe Aspiring Trainer
    CrownAxe

    Member

    It's not resource management either way. When you only have your manual attachment for the turn then the only thing you're managing is "did I draw an energy for the turn Y/N?" That's not actually managing anything nor is it more skill intensive.

    Energy in pokemon isn't an intriguing part of the game because it's so restricted inherently. Having to attach directly to your pokemon means there's no decision making because the only choice is "attach enough energy so that my pokemon can attack". It's not like magic where you need to budget your colors of mana each turn or consider not spending mana to have land open during your opponent's turn (you know, actual resource management). Which is why there is no difference between acceleration or not because you're going to doing the same exact thing either way it's just going to take 3-4 turns if you have to do it manually.
     
    NicoNoo likes this.
  9. Yaginku Aspiring Trainer
    Yaginku

    Member

    Managing resources is not limited to just playing Energy/Lands. Your access to and maintenance of resources plays a role also, and yes, that also includes any form of acceleration.
    This is a completely faulty comparison and you could make the exact same argument going the other way, by stating "Lands in Magic aren't that intriguing, you either have them or you don't, in Pokemon you must decide where the energy goes and expect to lose them when your Pokemon gets KO'd". Truth is, both play a part and both are probably overrated. If you take a glance at your hand in Magic, you know which resources you must leave open. If you look at your board in Pokemon, you know where the energy goes. The actually interesting part happens in deckbuilding, where you have to calculate your resources. This part will always be more complicated in Magic, but it doesn't mean it can be completely ruined in Pokemon by having auto-include engines that basically make your deck for you.
    3-4 turns is around 6-8 attacks, that can completely change the board state. I think that pretty much just makes my argument.
     
  10. pokemon64 Semi-Ace Trainer
    pokemon64

    Member

    Why call Sirfetch'd "Galarian Sirfetch'd" when there is only one variant of Sirfetch'd to begin with?
    Also fudge Twin Energy what was wrong with Double Colorless?
     
  11. Clam Almost decent
    Clam

    Member

    so whats going on with the name it is to future proof the cards in case they do release non galarian (like they should with multi prize pokemon) As for twin energy its just weaker DCE because DCE is strong
     
  12. CrownAxe Aspiring Trainer
    CrownAxe

    Member

    Ok so then why do you claim resource managment goes out the door when theirs energy acceleration? That's what you're claiming so can you please explain

    You're missing the point. Yes in both games the getting energy/land on board is boring, but magic at least has interesting game design revolving around its mana system and the player choices that come from it. An example is there is a clear mana curve that you generally want to play to effeciently but you can choose not spend all you mana to have some open lands during your opponent's turn but you can do that even if you don't have an instant speed spell in hand. So you can choose not to play your mana as efficiently as possible to bluff your opponent into not doing certain plays. That is an interesting option for player choice and is one that does exist because of the limited amounts of lands one can play.

    Pokemon has nothing of the sort. Energy only exists to meet the cost of your pokemon attacks and until you've attached enough to meet such cost your pretty much doing nothing. until you've attached enough energy you don't get to do anything that actually results in interacting with your opponent's side of the board. Which to me is why energy acceleration is a good thing because the interesting part of the game happens when you've got a pokemon fully set up and attacking and having to wait 3-4 turns until then is pretty boring.
    I would hope 3-4 turns would change the board state. Isn't that kinda the point? I don't see how this is a negative
     
    NicoNoo likes this.
  13. Yaginku Aspiring Trainer
    Yaginku

    Member

    If your acceleration is ubiquitous and reliable, it stops being nuanced. If your acceleration is limited (like Patches), then it involves actual choices.
    I don't know which format you're playing, that you're sitting there for four turns doing nothing and just attaching an energy per turn until you can use your blowout four-energy attack. Certainly not any that I've played.
    Most playable attacks in Pokemon cost 1-3 energy, with 3 being on the expensive spectrum and 4 being basically unobtainable without acceleration. One of the issues for the current format is that there's so many decks where energy doesn't matter at all - you can KO a massive Tag Team with four energies on it and another one will immediately take its place. This is why the format is extremely linear and not very nuanced.
    Your argument is that we should skip these 3-4 turns of set-up (which is greatly exaggerated, when it's actually 1-2) and just get straight to swinging 4-energy attacks. I hope you do understand your own argument, that you essentially want energy costs to be gone.
     
  14. CrownAxe Aspiring Trainer
    CrownAxe

    Member

    How are Patches not "ubiquitous and reliable"? What makes patches nuanced when other unnamed examples of acceleration stop being nuanced?

    I don't see the problem here namely because you are VASTLY overstating how linear the format is.

    Yeah why not? Set up is just playing solitare which last time i checked most people found boring
     
    NicoNoo likes this.
  15. Yaginku Aspiring Trainer
    Yaginku

    Member

    Because reshuffling items and special energy is usually extremely limited, whereas acceleration from abilities is usually repeatable. This format also has a ton of ways to reshuffle Supporters.
    If I'd have to explain the basics behind why Energy and resources exist and how they influence the game, I say we call off this discussion here. I believe you're just looking to argue and this has already taken way too much space in this thread.
     
  16. CrownAxe Aspiring Trainer
    CrownAxe

    Member

    Seems like a pretty arbitrary distinction. It's not like decks are in dire need of recycling their supporters and items to get set up
    Yeah I get the why energy exists. But I played back in DP format where there were only 1 prizers and no good energy acceleration. And I prefer the fast acceleration. It's the reason why I play this game over MtG and such
     
  17. Water Pokémon Master I like Pokemon more than you. :D
    Water Pokémon Master

    Webmaster News Head Activities Head Elite Member Advanced Member Member

  18. xTITAN Training Aspirer
    xTITAN

    Member

    even with frosmoth, it seems like way too much work for a 200 damage payoff
     
  19. The Rhyperior I am still Mr. Rhyperior
    The Rhyperior

    Member

    • Gyarados - 200 for 5 is too much for these Pokemon with high HP nowadays. Not even enough to KO a frilin Zacian V because of that. Frosmoth plus Lady is too much but still. 3 Geodudes
     
  20. RHowford Aspiring Trainer
    RHowford

    Advanced Member Member

    One attachment of triple acceleration energy and only two waters from frosmoth and you're swinging for 200. Could see niche play as a casual budget deck but I'd be surprised if anyone tries anything more with it.

    Overall, not my favourite but I'll give it a shot at a locals.
     

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