^Arceus-Donk? Those words don't sound like they belong to the same deck, can you explain?
The Set Rotation Discussion Thread
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Sure It's just like the name says, you basically donk with Arceus instead of Sableye by Turn 2 due to the needed energy attachments to achieve the win being Rainbow and DCE. It doesn't matter too much which version you're running possibly.
Arceus does go down to 70 HP with a damage counter from Rainbow Energy on T1 and T2 get the DCE needed to win. You can use Beginning Door and Pokemon Collector to get an Arceus Lv. X (with Omniscient) and 3 other Arceus cards into your hand on T1.
Arceus does go down to 70 HP with a damage counter from Rainbow Energy on T1 and T2 get the DCE needed to win. You can use Beginning Door and Pokemon Collector to get an Arceus Lv. X (with Omniscient) and 3 other Arceus cards into your hand on T1.
^So that doesn't mean arceus will be a donk deck that just means it will be considerably fast, it can't take out 3-4 pokemon like sableye decks can.
The Wii Man1234 said:
Correct cause your opponent will still have a chance to get around Arceus cause it needs 2 energies to setup early game being the Rainbow and Double Colorless Energy in order to donk. I remember my friend SPIRE_FAN was also freaking out about this deck besides Beedrill G as a Donk Deck in a Rising Rivals-On format once SableDonk is done and through. The case with Beedrill G how is it a donk deck?
It can't go first by itself like Sableye SF can with Overeager, it's Raid attack seems to be the most devastating with an Expert Belt attached and 1 {G} but it only gets that boost If it's played from your hand so If it's your Starting Active it's not really much of a threat at all.
Someone explain to me how Beedrill G is a devastating Donk deck Post-Rotation cause Pre-Rotation I can see it being devastating but not as much as SableDonk in the current format. As with Zekrom being a threat as a Donk deck it's not, but granted once it gets the right setup it can be devastating unless you
counter with Donphan Prime.
the ONLY way to hit for damage turn 1 with Arceus is to DCE the active, bertha's warmth a Lucario GL, and ultimate zone the energy to your active. Since Luke is the only non Arceus pokemon worth running in an arceus deck. And there are 90 HP Arceus as well. So rainbow only drops you to 80.
but usually you'll beginning door for some Arceus and pokeon collector or PONT for the rest. Then ripple swell for massive energy attachment T1. Then either rainbow, DCE, or Ultimate zone the needed energy, level up, warp energy, level up another Arceus, warp point, level up again, retreat, then level up again. And then kill whatever they send out. Since lv X has 120 HP, it can usually survuve a hit no problem. Then bench active lv X, ultimate zone energy, then seeker damaged Arceus, re bench Arceus, and level up active. Bear in mind this is mostly possible because of poke radar potentially being better than a collector and beginning door allowing you to get a lv X.
Arceus has always been kind of fast, collector just makes it faster.
my build after rotation will lose poke radar and pokemon rescue.
(assuming it's RR-on)
what cards will your decks lose post rotation? (other than pixies, crobat G's, Cyrus, and Poketurns)
but usually you'll beginning door for some Arceus and pokeon collector or PONT for the rest. Then ripple swell for massive energy attachment T1. Then either rainbow, DCE, or Ultimate zone the needed energy, level up, warp energy, level up another Arceus, warp point, level up again, retreat, then level up again. And then kill whatever they send out. Since lv X has 120 HP, it can usually survuve a hit no problem. Then bench active lv X, ultimate zone energy, then seeker damaged Arceus, re bench Arceus, and level up active. Bear in mind this is mostly possible because of poke radar potentially being better than a collector and beginning door allowing you to get a lv X.
Arceus has always been kind of fast, collector just makes it faster.
my build after rotation will lose poke radar and pokemon rescue.
(assuming it's RR-on)
what cards will your decks lose post rotation? (other than pixies, crobat G's, Cyrus, and Poketurns)
I have a feeling the most likely rotation at this point will be HGSS-on, or maybe Arceus-on. However, I personally am really hoping for a Black/White-on rotation. Forces all of us to start over and rethink everything. Plus, it'll be quite fitting.
As for what I will lose post-rotation? I main Gigas, so I will lose everything, and thus I will have to get as much play out of Gigas as possible. My sub is Blastoise, which in a format that is not Undaunted or newer, will lose only Bebe's Search and Call Energy (otherwise it will lose everything). Oh, and Jirachi. Even so it'll survive.
As for what I will lose post-rotation? I main Gigas, so I will lose everything, and thus I will have to get as much play out of Gigas as possible. My sub is Blastoise, which in a format that is not Undaunted or newer, will lose only Bebe's Search and Call Energy (otherwise it will lose everything). Oh, and Jirachi. Even so it'll survive.
also, sableye donk is survivable if you've got a 90HP active, two 90 HP benched, and one or two 80HP benched. If built right, Arceus can consistently opening hand that (or something similar)
DNA said:
Umm, you do realize that Black/White-On would kill the game right? Not enough sets to build decks off of meaning a boring metagame with everyone basically running the same decks making it more like Yu-Gi-Oh! back in the old days.
Cards that players have already invested in prior to Black/White would decrease in value and playability, LOTS of decks that had a chance to be competitive without SP's and SableDonk in the format would die, Stage 2 decks would die as well since Rare Candy would be out of the format.
Not gonna happen, there's just too much at risk.
DNA said:
Quoted for truth, it works better that way. The cards need to be rebooted because in my opinion, B/W's set is quite balanced. Even though I play unlimited for league and all that, It'd be nice to start fresh with B/W for limited format.
Yeah DNA but don't go saying we need Black/White-On like it will help cause it won't. The end result of it would cause the majority of the Pokemon TCG's playerbase to quit entirely. I'm dead serious, why would they do that If they are wanting to make money? That kind of rotation would cause Pokemon USA/TPCi/P!P to lose more money.
As for your statement earlier DNA, If that was the whole point then why did you suggest it since it would force everyone to quit the game? Starting off on a clean slate is one thing but not giving players enough playable cards to build good decks off of is another. Rotating 12 sets instead of just 4-7 is extreme in my book.
What would we lose with a BW-On Rotation? Rare Candy oh that's right you're in favor of axing Stage 2 decks to be less competitive than they are now in our current format and make them almost unplayable. Flower Shop Lady gets the boot since we don't have any way to get energies and Pokemon back into our decks.
I could go on and on about why Black/White-On is such a terrible idea...
As for your statement earlier DNA, If that was the whole point then why did you suggest it since it would force everyone to quit the game? Starting off on a clean slate is one thing but not giving players enough playable cards to build good decks off of is another. Rotating 12 sets instead of just 4-7 is extreme in my book.
What would we lose with a BW-On Rotation? Rare Candy oh that's right you're in favor of axing Stage 2 decks to be less competitive than they are now in our current format and make them almost unplayable. Flower Shop Lady gets the boot since we don't have any way to get energies and Pokemon back into our decks.
I could go on and on about why Black/White-On is such a terrible idea...
b/w - on would only suck for me cuz I have absolutely no money to buy b/w cards.. =( and with that kind of rotation, nobody will want any of my cards, so trading for b/w cards will be even less likely.
now, onto what Card Slinger said, we don't know everything that's in the set. there is energy restore that'll bring energy back.. and potions and max portion, or whatever it's called.. it'll just focus more on healing rather than letting the KO just happen and pokemon rescue, palmer's, flower shop, or rescue energy for it to come back into play. which isn't entirely a bad thing.. it's how it was in the olden days. sure we had revive and scoop up.. but those were limited in what they could do. potion, super potion, and pokemon center were our old healing methods. since scoop up only scooped the basic and not the whole line and discarded everything attached to it. Alakazam was cool for it's poke power.. but kadabra was immensely weak with only 60 HP
we just need two sets to work with. making a deck that is one set specific is hard, but doable. example: mightyena, Skuntank G, and Muk.. all from Platinum, all work in a deck just fine. working with one more set, makes it better..
what's more creative? working with a plethora of cards to make something that works? or being confined to specific cards and still making something awesome?
now, onto what Card Slinger said, we don't know everything that's in the set. there is energy restore that'll bring energy back.. and potions and max portion, or whatever it's called.. it'll just focus more on healing rather than letting the KO just happen and pokemon rescue, palmer's, flower shop, or rescue energy for it to come back into play. which isn't entirely a bad thing.. it's how it was in the olden days. sure we had revive and scoop up.. but those were limited in what they could do. potion, super potion, and pokemon center were our old healing methods. since scoop up only scooped the basic and not the whole line and discarded everything attached to it. Alakazam was cool for it's poke power.. but kadabra was immensely weak with only 60 HP
we just need two sets to work with. making a deck that is one set specific is hard, but doable. example: mightyena, Skuntank G, and Muk.. all from Platinum, all work in a deck just fine. working with one more set, makes it better..
what's more creative? working with a plethora of cards to make something that works? or being confined to specific cards and still making something awesome?
Let them quit. We don't need crybabies in our tournaments. People who like Pokemon and enjoy it for what it really is will want to stick through any sort of wacky rotation.Card Slinger J said:
We were willing to spend enough money to start playing the PTCG in the first place. You're saying we aren't willing enough to start it over again?
We didn't have any solid cards like that back in the EX era (to my knowledge). We'll live without them.
Believe me - Black/White-on is a much better idea than you give it credit for. I never said it was likely (hence why every time I post you always address the wrong issue), but I did say that it would be a good interesting idea. Look at what Grave just said - it's a nice fresh start if we got a B/W-on rotation, which is actually pretty good.
QFTcarlitosbob said:
DNA said:
You don't get it do you? Why would everyone want to start over again especially If they are forced to run Pokemon they don't even like? I mean nostalgia does play a big factor in this TCG and not being able to run classic Pokemon with the new Pokemon puts it on a downward spiral.
So no, nobody should have to start all over again. You look at other TCG's like Magic: The Gathering and
Yu-Gi-Oh! and they never started over from scratch cause eliminating past sets especially for tournament play would cause the companies responsible for those TCG's to lose money.
Fact of the matter is, a BW-On rotation would result in less innovation in deck design, very few playable decks, and a bigger stagnation on the metagame itself. Bottom line you're in denial...
DNA said:
Sure it might be interesting to some people like yourself but I don't think everyone is going to welcome this with a friendly gesture. Also how am I addressing the wrong issue? Are we just going to pretend that the HeartGold/SoulSilver and late Platinum sets never existed? -___-
According to TPCi and P!P's track record, there hasn't been an expansion in the game that has been rotated out of the format that's been in the format for less than a year, If they've been in the format for at least 2 or 3 it's due time to kick them out. The HeartGold/SoulSilver Expansions and Call of Legends have been in the format for less than a year so it would be unreasonable to rotate those sets out.
Rising Rivals and Arceus I could see get rotated out, but then again TPCi and P!P will most likely stick to their agenda of going RR-On like they promised last year after Worlds 2010. We will just have to wait and see to find out I guess but I can assure you that a Black/White-On Rotation will NEVER happen cause it would be very bad for the TCG itself at least that's the way I see it.
Card Slinger J said:
So basically all this is another "Fifth gen's Pokemon are terrible" statement?
All a matter of opinion, but it's not like we're gonna stay with 5th gen Pokemon forever.
off topic: I was about to talk about how I don't like some of the new pokemon cuz some don't look like creatures.. Then I remembered that gen 1 had jynx, Mr. Mime, ditto, magnemite/ton, and porygon.. Then I got creeped out by porygon. It's essentially a robot, not a pokémon.. Yet it evolves! And isn't the info on porygon Z say something like it's lost its code?... I dunno, AI that can evolve and go against its programming is frightening.
anywho, RR-on or AR-on.. So long as I can play my Arceus deck next year, it's all good.
anywho, RR-on or AR-on.. So long as I can play my Arceus deck next year, it's all good.
It's not a stagnation; it's a reboot. I'm sure you've noticed by now all the attention Gen 5 is getting because of all the different things it's doing: a radically different plotline, new changes to TCG cards (including some errata), absolutely zero Pokemon related to prior gens present in the Unova Dex, reverting back to primitive names...I could go on but you get the idea.Card Slinger J said:
(Also, when it comes to Base Set days, Haymaker and Raindance was the play. Were we restricted to just a few sets again, we would once again get a handful of decks that are the play. I predict good things for Klinklang and Reshiram, but that's just me.)
I just don't like you bashing the idea that a BW-on rotation would be 100% bad, because it wouldn't. Yes, an HGSS-on would probably be a better idea, because we're keeping a lot of vestiges from the old format, but at the same time, before we get any rotation, we are going to be getting BW2. And we have absolutely no idea about every card in that set - so it is potential that it will release cards that will make a BW-on rotation totally feasible.
QFT because people that bash Gen 5 without a good reason annoy me.GraveTheUndead said:
^While I would actually like a Base like feel in the game again, and BW would bring that, I think HGSS on is the most reasonable rotation. It's far more balanced than anything from the Plat block staying and does reboot the game somewhat while giving players something to mess around with that they already own.
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