The Next Rotation
- Thread starter Eron
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Takezo_Kensei said:
I am more than happy for this. I'm just getting back into the game after taking a hiatus after HGSS. I don't like going into a match seeing my opponent play 1/3 cards and knowing who will win. Over-reliance on BBB's and EX's can leave and I wouldn't be sad about it. So many good stage 1/2's get overlooked because they are "too slow".
helti said:
That's only 2 decks in the format out of over a dozen. Fairy Garden is neutral against other Fairy decks, since neither player has to set up Darkrai. Against Plasma, yeah, I guess it can be a little helpful for them, but sometimes the extra bench space will be worth the sacrifice.
It's not like there won't be a Tool Scrapper opt-out come May. Flashfire will bring us the card "Surprise Megaphone" which discards all Pokemon Tool cards attached to your opponent's Pokemon. Basically OP Scrapper
Rotation: What should stay/go/be reprinted.
With a possible rotation coming up, I thought it would be fun to list what cards you think should be saved from rotation (or reprinted as something different ie: Juniper/Sycamore) and cards that you'll be happy to see go. Here are my general thoughts (I'm assuming a Plasma Storm on rotation)
Saved
Skyla: I think it's the best supporter in the game. You can set your deck up in such a way that you can get any card you need for the situation (even draw cards thanks to items like Bicycle). Some may call this broken, but I don't think so (you trade speed for consistency). I couldn't imagine playing a deck without four copies of this.
Superrod: Okay, we have sacred ash, but that doesn't let you put energy back in, which is one of my favorite uses for SR.
Switch: I just couldn't imagine a format without this card. It may have been reprinted as some promo in which case it has been saved.
Computer Search: While I think dowsing machine is the better ace spec overall, Computer Search is still pretty nice. If we lose this but keep dowsing, than there isn't much competition for the ace spec slot.
Heavy Ball/Level Ball: Both of these were nice cards that balanced out the massive drawbacks of other cards. A pokemon with only 90HP or 3 retreat could at least have the advantage of being able to be searched without discard.
Devo Spray: One of the best cards for rogue decks. Losing this would mean losing a lot of fun combos.
[/u]Get Lost!
Prism Energy: "Hey, I got a great idea, lets make a card that doesn't work on evolved pokemon, you know, the ones that are already struggling to see play as it is. That should balance the game just fine!".
Skyarrow Bridge: Same reason as prism energy. I wouldn't mind this being reprinted as a card that gives all pokemon one less retreat, but to limit this to basic pokemon just seems so counter productive.
Hammers (Enhanced and Crushing): Items that discard energy should not exist. Unfortunately, crushing hammer has been reprinted in legendary treasures and enhanced is an up and coming promo.
N: Way way too powerful of a card. It punishes players for conserving their hand (same problem with red card), ruining strategies in the cheapest way possible.
Lasers: Not that it's not a fun card, but it IS too broken. There needs to be other ways to add damage that's not nearly as broken. That said, I wouldn't object to virbank gym staying (rogue deck potential and all).
Those are my picks.
With a possible rotation coming up, I thought it would be fun to list what cards you think should be saved from rotation (or reprinted as something different ie: Juniper/Sycamore) and cards that you'll be happy to see go. Here are my general thoughts (I'm assuming a Plasma Storm on rotation)
Saved
Skyla: I think it's the best supporter in the game. You can set your deck up in such a way that you can get any card you need for the situation (even draw cards thanks to items like Bicycle). Some may call this broken, but I don't think so (you trade speed for consistency). I couldn't imagine playing a deck without four copies of this.
Superrod: Okay, we have sacred ash, but that doesn't let you put energy back in, which is one of my favorite uses for SR.
Switch: I just couldn't imagine a format without this card. It may have been reprinted as some promo in which case it has been saved.
Computer Search: While I think dowsing machine is the better ace spec overall, Computer Search is still pretty nice. If we lose this but keep dowsing, than there isn't much competition for the ace spec slot.
Heavy Ball/Level Ball: Both of these were nice cards that balanced out the massive drawbacks of other cards. A pokemon with only 90HP or 3 retreat could at least have the advantage of being able to be searched without discard.
Devo Spray: One of the best cards for rogue decks. Losing this would mean losing a lot of fun combos.
[/u]Get Lost!
Prism Energy: "Hey, I got a great idea, lets make a card that doesn't work on evolved pokemon, you know, the ones that are already struggling to see play as it is. That should balance the game just fine!".
Skyarrow Bridge: Same reason as prism energy. I wouldn't mind this being reprinted as a card that gives all pokemon one less retreat, but to limit this to basic pokemon just seems so counter productive.
Hammers (Enhanced and Crushing): Items that discard energy should not exist. Unfortunately, crushing hammer has been reprinted in legendary treasures and enhanced is an up and coming promo.
N: Way way too powerful of a card. It punishes players for conserving their hand (same problem with red card), ruining strategies in the cheapest way possible.
Lasers: Not that it's not a fun card, but it IS too broken. There needs to be other ways to add damage that's not nearly as broken. That said, I wouldn't object to virbank gym staying (rogue deck potential and all).
Those are my picks.
RE: Rotation: What should stay/go/be reprinted.
Dark Patch. Thanks god it will be gone this year.
"Dark Pokémon? Ok, take a discarded energy, and this is an item that Sableye (which is in Darkrai decks) can recover with Junk Hunt"
But N.... N is a card that everyone likes, and it will stay for at least 1 year more. It's promo 100.
Dark Patch. Thanks god it will be gone this year.
"Dark Pokémon? Ok, take a discarded energy, and this is an item that Sableye (which is in Darkrai decks) can recover with Junk Hunt"
But N.... N is a card that everyone likes, and it will stay for at least 1 year more. It's promo 100.
RE: Rotation: What should stay/go/be reprinted.
I agree with Eron on both parts. Dark Patch makes Darkrai decks unnecessarily fast since Yveltal has come into the picture. And N is a great card that will definitely be staying for at least another season.
I agree with Eron on both parts. Dark Patch makes Darkrai decks unnecessarily fast since Yveltal has come into the picture. And N is a great card that will definitely be staying for at least another season.
RE: Rotation: What should stay/go/be reprinted.
Alright whoever suggested not running Juniper/Sycamore, I can agree that it should be run less but there's always chance in the game. Take out all the risk of your deck and your sure to fail. I mean, what if someone else is using junipers gets the cards needed KO's you.
It comes down to that, considering we may be losing Skyla I would look into equivalent fractions and throw in variables of possible situations to decide upon the Supporters, Trainers your going to run.
It depends if you are a competitive player, but that's what I think will happen, I'm just going to stick with Team Plasma Hybrid Decks for now. The whole format seems pretty up in the air, you know?
Alright whoever suggested not running Juniper/Sycamore, I can agree that it should be run less but there's always chance in the game. Take out all the risk of your deck and your sure to fail. I mean, what if someone else is using junipers gets the cards needed KO's you.
It comes down to that, considering we may be losing Skyla I would look into equivalent fractions and throw in variables of possible situations to decide upon the Supporters, Trainers your going to run.
It depends if you are a competitive player, but that's what I think will happen, I'm just going to stick with Team Plasma Hybrid Decks for now. The whole format seems pretty up in the air, you know?
RE: Rotation: What should stay/go/be reprinted.
Pretty sure there's Switch in X/Y Starters (Chespin/Froakie/Fennakin).
Or at least in the Trainer Kit.
I would guess that they would make similar cards to N/Skyla in the future.
Just with different character names.
N could be that Az guy.
Skyla could be either the Champ or roller skate girl Gym Leader.
(Sorry it's been so long since I fought either of them to remember their name).
Pretty sure there's Switch in X/Y Starters (Chespin/Froakie/Fennakin).
Or at least in the Trainer Kit.
I would guess that they would make similar cards to N/Skyla in the future.
Just with different character names.
N could be that Az guy.
Skyla could be either the Champ or roller skate girl Gym Leader.
(Sorry it's been so long since I fought either of them to remember their name).
RE: Rotation: What should stay/go/be reprinted.
As soon as Laser leaves, I'll be a very happy player. I will also personally host a ceremony for burning every Laser I can find.
I've never really been a fan of N either--I think comeback potential is a good thing to have in the game, but I hate how N can turn games into a luckfest of who can draw better. Sure, you can prepare for N, and yes, it's a strategic card, but in the end, the only way N functions is if your opponent gets unlucky.
I'd love for both hammers to be gone and for ACE SPECs to be gone, but at this point, I hope we just rotate PF-on to kill laser. I know it isn't going to happen, but I think Laser is one of the stupidest cards ever printed and I have lost more games than I can count due to sleep flips (and looking at it from an objective standpoint, it's a card that speeds up the game to unnecessary levels combined with an unnecessary luck factor).
As soon as Laser leaves, I'll be a very happy player. I will also personally host a ceremony for burning every Laser I can find.
I've never really been a fan of N either--I think comeback potential is a good thing to have in the game, but I hate how N can turn games into a luckfest of who can draw better. Sure, you can prepare for N, and yes, it's a strategic card, but in the end, the only way N functions is if your opponent gets unlucky.
I'd love for both hammers to be gone and for ACE SPECs to be gone, but at this point, I hope we just rotate PF-on to kill laser. I know it isn't going to happen, but I think Laser is one of the stupidest cards ever printed and I have lost more games than I can count due to sleep flips (and looking at it from an objective standpoint, it's a card that speeds up the game to unnecessary levels combined with an unnecessary luck factor).
RE: Rotation: What should stay/go/be reprinted.
I feel the same way about Tropical Beach, but knowing that it will still be legal for the new BW-On format that P!P made for the TCG that's separate from Standard/Modified and Unlimited makes me cringe. For better or worse, Laser helped non-Basic decks actually stand somewhat of a chance against Basic decks until we got Silver Bangle and Muscle Band.
I think the loss of Skyla in a Plasma Storm-On format next rotation will be the death knell for Stage 2 decks from ever becoming competitive again unless that forces more players to run 2-3 Tropical Beach which is more than likely to finally get rotated out. If it doesn't rotate out next season then decks like Empoleon/Dusknoir will need to run 2-3 Beach to get the consistency they lost from Skyla getting rotated out which I think is a bad direction for the TCG in general.
I'm not happy about Level Ball getting rotated out either since the Ultra Ball/Level Ball engine to get Basics is much more consistent than
Pokemon Fan Club since it's a Supporter while the Ultra Ball/Level Ball engine at least saves you a Supporter to play for that turn like a Draw Supporter. There's a reason why Dual Ball was the play to get Basics out early to mid game back in HGSS-On over Pokemon Collector, sure it was a 50/50 chance of getting at least one Basic Pokemon especially doubling your chances of getting another with Junk Arm but it was better to play that and then PONT for something better.
The loss of Super Rod is going to hurt as well, Sacred Ash is a decent replacement for it but it punishes decks that only run 7-8 Energy when everyone runs heavy Trainer/Supporter/Stadium lines that takes up two-thirds of entire decklists. However it could also mean that players need to play their energies more conservatively unless they're running a Fire deck with Blacksmith while Darkrai/Yveltal takes a huge hit from the loss of Dark Patch and Sableye (Junk Hunt) getting rotated out. Much like with Switch I can't imagine a format without Super Rod much like how Night Maintenance was a staple in DP-On and MD-On going forward until it got rotated out.
Blah said:
I feel the same way about Tropical Beach, but knowing that it will still be legal for the new BW-On format that P!P made for the TCG that's separate from Standard/Modified and Unlimited makes me cringe. For better or worse, Laser helped non-Basic decks actually stand somewhat of a chance against Basic decks until we got Silver Bangle and Muscle Band.
I think the loss of Skyla in a Plasma Storm-On format next rotation will be the death knell for Stage 2 decks from ever becoming competitive again unless that forces more players to run 2-3 Tropical Beach which is more than likely to finally get rotated out. If it doesn't rotate out next season then decks like Empoleon/Dusknoir will need to run 2-3 Beach to get the consistency they lost from Skyla getting rotated out which I think is a bad direction for the TCG in general.
I'm not happy about Level Ball getting rotated out either since the Ultra Ball/Level Ball engine to get Basics is much more consistent than
Pokemon Fan Club since it's a Supporter while the Ultra Ball/Level Ball engine at least saves you a Supporter to play for that turn like a Draw Supporter. There's a reason why Dual Ball was the play to get Basics out early to mid game back in HGSS-On over Pokemon Collector, sure it was a 50/50 chance of getting at least one Basic Pokemon especially doubling your chances of getting another with Junk Arm but it was better to play that and then PONT for something better.
The loss of Super Rod is going to hurt as well, Sacred Ash is a decent replacement for it but it punishes decks that only run 7-8 Energy when everyone runs heavy Trainer/Supporter/Stadium lines that takes up two-thirds of entire decklists. However it could also mean that players need to play their energies more conservatively unless they're running a Fire deck with Blacksmith while Darkrai/Yveltal takes a huge hit from the loss of Dark Patch and Sableye (Junk Hunt) getting rotated out. Much like with Switch I can't imagine a format without Super Rod much like how Night Maintenance was a staple in DP-On and MD-On going forward until it got rotated out.
RE: Rotation: What should stay/go/be reprinted.
Ace specs and lasers are both great cards, it comes down to flip to put to sleep anyways. If you really hate status conditions run keldeo EX or virizion EX.
Ace specs and lasers are both great cards, it comes down to flip to put to sleep anyways. If you really hate status conditions run keldeo EX or virizion EX.
RE: Rotation: What should stay/go/be reprinted.
Exactly--laser sleep comes down to a flip. That means it's a card that often revolves around luck. While luck is an inherent part of any TCG, when that luck can decide games, it's really stupid and bad for the game. You can't just run Keldeo EX or Virizion EX--you often have to base decks around them. And even then, cards like Garbodor can get around them. Laser is a very powerful card to begin with because of poison + Virbank, and the sleep flip not only made the card far too good but it can decide games on coin flips.
I'm pretty much alone on disliking ACE SPECs, but I don't like them because of the fact that they aren't really a one-time use for most decks. If Yveltal decks got one use out of their Dowsing Machine, fine. If Genesect could only G Booster once per game, again, fine. But when you can re-use them again and again and again, they can decide games. As Eron said, using them as "defensive" cards would be fine, but at the moment they're often used as a primary form of search or, in G Booster's case, damage. Combined with Skyla, they're also very easy to search out and become far more powerful than the mechanic should be. To be honest, I don't mind Dowsing and Computer Search as much as I mind G booster, because it seems pretty ridiculous that half the strategy of Genesect decks are based around the use of one card that could be prized, discarded after one turn, etc.
Exactly--laser sleep comes down to a flip. That means it's a card that often revolves around luck. While luck is an inherent part of any TCG, when that luck can decide games, it's really stupid and bad for the game. You can't just run Keldeo EX or Virizion EX--you often have to base decks around them. And even then, cards like Garbodor can get around them. Laser is a very powerful card to begin with because of poison + Virbank, and the sleep flip not only made the card far too good but it can decide games on coin flips.
I'm pretty much alone on disliking ACE SPECs, but I don't like them because of the fact that they aren't really a one-time use for most decks. If Yveltal decks got one use out of their Dowsing Machine, fine. If Genesect could only G Booster once per game, again, fine. But when you can re-use them again and again and again, they can decide games. As Eron said, using them as "defensive" cards would be fine, but at the moment they're often used as a primary form of search or, in G Booster's case, damage. Combined with Skyla, they're also very easy to search out and become far more powerful than the mechanic should be. To be honest, I don't mind Dowsing and Computer Search as much as I mind G booster, because it seems pretty ridiculous that half the strategy of Genesect decks are based around the use of one card that could be prized, discarded after one turn, etc.
RE: Rotation: What should stay/go/be reprinted.
The problem with tropical beach is it's cost. It shouldn't be that expensive, especially when so many decks seem to depend on it. I would like to see a similar draw stadium released, but perhaps for less cards without having to skip your turn (like Electrode or Empoleon's ability in stadium form).
The problem with tropical beach is it's cost. It shouldn't be that expensive, especially when so many decks seem to depend on it. I would like to see a similar draw stadium released, but perhaps for less cards without having to skip your turn (like Electrode or Empoleon's ability in stadium form).
RE: Rotation: What should stay/go/be reprinted.
I agree that if lasers didnt have the sleep aspect they would be less broken. I also agree about the G booster it should not be the whole strategy of the deck.
I agree that if lasers didnt have the sleep aspect they would be less broken. I also agree about the G booster it should not be the whole strategy of the deck.
I'm hoping and praying that the format is BCR-On. Skyla is way too important of a card to lose. If it does wind up being PLS-On, then They'll need to replace Skyla with some X and Y card. I can imagine a Trevor or Clemont card being the new Skyla. Finally decks like Darkrai/Yveltal will be much slower with the loss of Dark Patch.
I think they'd know better than to not reprint some form of Skyla. For an example of how people freaked out unnecessarily, look at when before we saw Startling Megaphone. Everyone was freaking out about Tool Scrapper going away and how it would rule the format, then, lo and behold, we got a buffed Tool Scrapper in Flashfire. I predicted it to happen with Tool Scrapper, and I'm betting it'll be the same with Skyla too. Until then, we have the whole rest of the season to use Skyla.