PMJ
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A Holon Circle reprint or re-imagining would be very effective in nerfing Seismitoad.
P!P/Rules Should Seismitoad EX be Banned for Standard and Expanded?
- Thread starter Carmen Sandiego
- Start date
PMJ
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No need to go that far. Playing trainers (items) isn't the problem; not being able to is the problem. Chaos Gym would not help with that.
Besides, Chaos Gym was already re-imagined as Venomoth PHF's Dizzying Wind attack.
Besides, Chaos Gym was already re-imagined as Venomoth PHF's Dizzying Wind attack.
PMJ said:
I can see reimagining, but it'd be horribly broken if it just got reprinted; instead of locking items, it'd lock attacks with only one partner: PRC (PCL?) Ninetales.
That's besides the point, however; that's the kind of cards that do need print in order to have a chance of beating out Toad right now.
If we can just a decent grass Pokemon with a colorless attack, we'd be set. Something like the Red Genesect promo card, but a bit more tech-able.
There's gotta be a way to make it work. Maybe someone please come up with a deck idea! We need to find away to have Yanmega on the bench then switch back or to another then bam-- 50 X 2=200 damage!
bbninjas said:DarkMatterGaming said:
Ninetales doesn't block the discarding of Stadiums. Ninetales blocks the playing of them.
It's still a turn enough, and with how many Turbo draw engines there are.. I still wouldn't put it past that.
Still, my understanding was off. My bad.
When VirGen goes I think PTCG is going to have a lot more opportunity when it comes to grass pokemon and a very splashable seismitoad EX killer is going to be released. atm i think they are completely locked when it comes to grass types because virgen (virizion EX in particular) is incredibly powerful and more support might push it over the edge.
Personally i stopped playing because of seismitoad EX because its an absolute chore to play against and the game stopped being fun. im not an expert at the card game so ill talk about what would happen in the videogame meta when considering a ban (i think the principles are justified and can easily overlap). In the regular pokemon meta they usually ban pokemon to the uber tier when they completely overcentralize teambuilding- for instance aegislash pushed half of the psychic types out of OU and banning it allowed for like 20 crippled otherwise strong pokemon back into the metagame, plus similar to seismitoad it had a chance to beat several of its "checks" with luck, and was also powerful as well as all of the above (not just a nuisance card). the chokehold that seismitoad EX has on deckbuilding is very comparable to this and i think it would be totally reasonable to see it banned, especially since the checks it has are not all that splashable and it pushes a huge number of decks out of play even without being completely unmanageable- in addition the splashability of seismitoad itself does not help its cause at all, as it could pop up anywhere unlike some other very powerful cards which require support and a deck built around them.
However i dont think PTCG will issue a ban/change on such a popular card that seems to attract so many people...
Personally i stopped playing because of seismitoad EX because its an absolute chore to play against and the game stopped being fun. im not an expert at the card game so ill talk about what would happen in the videogame meta when considering a ban (i think the principles are justified and can easily overlap). In the regular pokemon meta they usually ban pokemon to the uber tier when they completely overcentralize teambuilding- for instance aegislash pushed half of the psychic types out of OU and banning it allowed for like 20 crippled otherwise strong pokemon back into the metagame, plus similar to seismitoad it had a chance to beat several of its "checks" with luck, and was also powerful as well as all of the above (not just a nuisance card). the chokehold that seismitoad EX has on deckbuilding is very comparable to this and i think it would be totally reasonable to see it banned, especially since the checks it has are not all that splashable and it pushes a huge number of decks out of play even without being completely unmanageable- in addition the splashability of seismitoad itself does not help its cause at all, as it could pop up anywhere unlike some other very powerful cards which require support and a deck built around them.
However i dont think PTCG will issue a ban/change on such a popular card that seems to attract so many people...
Sure, Toad is one tough cookie who some think should be banned now, but after Roaring Skies becomes tourney-legal, in my opinion, I expect Set Up Shaymins combining w/ Skyfield and Wally + Ninetales to power up M Ray and/or Shiftry(as soon as it gets out of its preovo stages) on turn 1 to take Toad down easily on turn 2 after Shaymin is AZ'ed and put back down to put as many pokemon on bench as possible for massive bench-induced damage and a KO that finally will give such people the counter that will convince them to stop arguing about a Toad ban that they obviously won't get... Then again...
^ I'm not sure if the above will work as a post-Roaring Skies counter that makes Toad more beatable and less ban-worthy according to Toad's critics, but what do you think?
^ I'm not sure if the above will work as a post-Roaring Skies counter that makes Toad more beatable and less ban-worthy according to Toad's critics, but what do you think?
Toad is a problem, it stops most evolved pokemon (no rare candy) plus is not fun. PTCG should ban him or errata him, with 1 item per turn or change is cost to 1 w and 1 colorless.
gaby2kbarrage said:
One item per turn will not help and will make the whole game worse. The only way to have a splashable Seismitoad EX counter. But back on topic, no it shouldn't be banned. I and I'm sure many others don't mind it as a staller but to build a deck around it is annoying. The mentality of "ban Seismitoad EX" will ruin the game for the rest of us. Because of one card? The solution is to have extreme powerful counters to Seismitoad EX that can be put in any deck.
THIRTEEN said:
So you're tired of people complaining about Seismitoad but freely admit that it's an issue?
I don't have much faith that a silver bullet answer is anywhere on the horizon, so I would be fine with banning it from standard but keeping it in expanded where there are more counters.
They are not going to ban seismitoad EX the card is just to popular and the TCG business is about making money. Its almost like saying ban Mewtwo EX because it could be splashed into any deck and has been of the best attackers in the game. An errata to Seismitoad EX like making the card cost a water and a colorless will only make the card more powerfull because it will not be susceptable to Xerosic. If the the Seismitoad EX player goes first then they will still be using quaking punch on their second turn, which in turn still leaves only one turn of tools to be played. Maybe instead of complaining about the card players need to learn how to counter it, instead of playing against the card once and saying it should be banned. Practice playing against the card and you will learn how to beat it. Another thing that will help is if people stop building their decks around so many items, with a card like Seismitoad EX in the meta decks need to be built differentl so they can function without being dependant on items.
There will be more pokemon draw as well as versatility in deck building. Cards like Shaymin EX are going to be played by almost everybody (Should they be banned), so item support will be less needed. Wally is going to make stage 2 decks so much better it would be able to set up evoultions just as quickly as rare candy did before Seismitoad EX. Evoultion decks will play 3-4 wally so they can start with it in their openening hand more often and it will alow them to get their stage 2's out turn 2.
A really good counter to Seismitoad EX is Seismitoad EX. If they are unable to play their items the deck slows down massivly because a lot of Seismitoad EX decks are dependent on their item based draw power.
There will be more pokemon draw as well as versatility in deck building. Cards like Shaymin EX are going to be played by almost everybody (Should they be banned), so item support will be less needed. Wally is going to make stage 2 decks so much better it would be able to set up evoultions just as quickly as rare candy did before Seismitoad EX. Evoultion decks will play 3-4 wally so they can start with it in their openening hand more often and it will alow them to get their stage 2's out turn 2.
A really good counter to Seismitoad EX is Seismitoad EX. If they are unable to play their items the deck slows down massivly because a lot of Seismitoad EX decks are dependent on their item based draw power.
PMJ
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Ironman131 said:
As true as this is, I don't think that's a fair argument. Using Seismitoad to counter Seismitoad isn't really solving the problem (the fact that he is everywhere and so debilitating).
THIRTEEN said:
VirGen usually beats Toad. But not always- if Toad gets some good flips off hammers and VirGen player gets a slow start. But few Toad players go into the matchup expecting to win- especially not a best of three.