P!P/Rules Should Seismitoad EX be Banned for Standard and Expanded?

As long as there are Pokemon-EX in the format, the format will always favor them, barring a card that severely nerfs them (like Claydol GE for Absol SW, or Battle Frontier for Pidgeot FRLG).

Salamence RSK and its 170-damage bomb of an attack is nice, but it costs four energy and, since Salamence is Dragon and likely to utilize Double Dragon Energy, is hugely susceptible to hammers/Xerosic. But it's a start.
 
DarkMatterGaming said:
Basically... Juniper and Trump Card. That's it.

Why's it so effective? Because Random Receiver nearly guarantees a new hand if you want it, or you can shuffle yourself back in. It's terrifying and Toad can abuse it.
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That method sounds pathetic. Acro Bike, Roller Skates and Bicycle is where it's at. You basically cycle your deck every turn and it's awful.

On a different note; no, Seismitoad should not be banned. It's not that good. It's the sort of card that is rather easy to counter but really annoying if you don't have a hard counter.
 
I get a little annoyed whenever anyone responds to the Toad problem with "Just play VirGen", because the problem is that if you are playing VirGen, you will be lucky if you can get off an Emerald Slash, due to Head Ringer and Crushing Hammers (And Slurpuff+Item draw making it easy to grab all of these things).
 
Seismitoad EX decks suck. The "[removed]" is so cheap; just Item lock, put Virbank City Gymn in play, spam Hypnotoxic Laser, Crushing Hammers and Enhanced Hammers to prevent people from attacking. That's so cheap and takes no skill. Just mindless spamming. Any "[removed]" that relies on preventing people from attacking is stupid. "What about Cobalion?" Well Iron Breaker is balanced because your opponent's Pokemon can just go to the bench and undo the effect.
 
Blui said:
DarkMatterGaming said:
Basically... Juniper and Trump Card. That's it.

Why's it so effective? Because Random Receiver nearly guarantees a new hand if you want it, or you can shuffle yourself back in. It's terrifying and Toad can abuse it.
Click to expand...

That method sounds pathetic. Acro Bike, Roller Skates and Bicycle is where it's at. You basically cycle your deck every turn and it's awful.
Click to expand...

Oh no, you run damn near all of those cards for more draw. The only reason you run 4 Juniper and a Trump Card is for more consistent draw.
 
First, I haven't read what other people have said.
Second, this is my opinion : Seismitoad is a great card with a lot of potential and uses. BUT although it has LIMITED weaknesses it is overpowered. I have played AS Seismitoad and Against it and I ended up disliking the card because it took the whole fun from the game. Nobody wants an overpowered gimmick card. If "Quacking punch" was like Dragonite or Zebstrika (back in the day) I am fine. But Print this card in a EX and DCE to attack ? That's brutal and unfair. Therefore, (for me) I understand the hate. I hate this card too. It disrupts many popular decks and to be honest EVERY deck in the years of TCG 'cause always decks relied on items. What's the next step ? Zygarde EX with DCE attack that's : "(attack)": 30 dmg = "Your opponent can't play supporters" (?)

This card should be stopped or banned, like the catcher. Too OP means change the rules! Make it "one per deck" or 3 energy all water... Make it have a drawback that Will balance the game, like dragonite and zebstrika.
 
Green778 said:
First, I haven't read what other people have said.
Second, this is my opinion : Seismitoad is a great card with a lot of potential and uses. BUT although it has LIMITED weaknesses it is overpowered. I have played AS Seismitoad and Against it and I ended up disliking the card because it took the whole fun from the game. Nobody wants an overpowered gimmick card. If "Quacking punch" was like Dragonite or Zebstrika (back in the day) I am fine. But Print this card in a EX and DCE to attack ? That's brutal and unfair. Therefore, (for me) I understand the hate. I hate this card too. It disrupts many popular decks and to be honest EVERY deck in the years of TCG 'cause always decks relied on items. What's the next step ? Zygarde EX with DCE attack that's : "(attack)": 30 dmg = "Your opponent can't play supporters" (?)

This card should be stopped or banned, like the catcher. Too OP means change the rules! Make it "one per deck" or 3 energy all water... Make it have a drawback that Will balance the game, like dragonite and zebstrika.
Click to expand...

I like this opinion because it's the most valid one I've seen and sounds like it comes from a lot more experience, and shows someone recognizes how bad it breaks the game.
 
Green778 said:
First, I haven't read what other people have said.
Second, this is my opinion : Seismitoad is a great card with a lot of potential and uses. BUT although it has LIMITED weaknesses it is overpowered. I have played AS Seismitoad and Against it and I ended up disliking the card because it took the whole fun from the game. Nobody wants an overpowered gimmick card. If "Quacking punch" was like Dragonite or Zebstrika (back in the day) I am fine. But Print this card in a EX and DCE to attack ? That's brutal and unfair. Therefore, (for me) I understand the hate. I hate this card too. It disrupts many popular decks and to be honest EVERY deck in the years of TCG 'cause always decks relied on items. What's the next step ? Zygarde EX with DCE attack that's : "(attack)": 30 dmg = "Your opponent can't play supporters" (?)

This card should be stopped or banned, like the catcher. Too OP means change the rules! Make it "one per deck" or 3 energy all water... Make it have a drawback that Will balance the game, like dragonite and zebstrika.
Click to expand...

Please rush to Japan so you can tell them this. PLEASE.
 
I pretty much agree with everyone calling it OP...the thing with item-locking in the past is that it was somewhat difficult to set up;

Gothitelle was a stage 2 and had to be in the active slot, plus the combo was with Accelgor which was a stage 1.
Trevenant is a stage 1, so slightly easier but it still needs to be active and only has 110 HP.
Vileplume was a stage 2, I believe it was easier to set up because of Broken Time-Space (if not, general stage 2 support) but it locks BOTH players' Trainer cards.

Seismitoad is a Basic, 180-HP EX that not only does damage, but only locks its opponents' items. The only requirement is a DCE, which I suppose is a weakness but the pros far outweigh the cons.

Pokemon is a game about setup, and using item-lock in the past has required plenty of setup and work. Seismitoad just doesn't need it.
 
I was about to say what you just posted. Well it's too late for TPCI to edit the card I think. I don't think it's like Pokemon Catcher where you can just reprint the card; we're talking about a Pokemon EX.
 
If TPCi really feel Seismitoad EX is having a severely negative effect on the format I think their only course of action would be to put a card in a future set that would act as a direct counter to Seismitoad.

Perhaps a Pokemon with an ability that functions similarly to Espeon's Solar Flare (or Wonder Energy) except it negates ALL effects of attacks, except damage, done by the Defending Pokemon. This would probably be overpowered on it's own so maybe it has a requirement?

Maybe something like this:
"Once during your turn, before you attack, you may discard an energy attached to this Pokemon. If you do, prevent all effects of attacks, except damage, done by your opponent's Pokemon during his or her next turn."

If this was on a low-ish HP basic or a Stage 1 I think it would be an effective counter to Seismitoad EX by allowing you to get back your items for a turn when you need it, without being completely overpowered itself.
 
Is Seismitoad-DX stupidly broken? Of course.
Are there any logical and simple counters to it? Sadly, no.

I was the first from my area to have a fully built Seismitoad deck, and I gotta say it was extremely good. I even managed to beat a VirGen deck on a Bo3, which I thought was impossible. It was my best deck until I built Flareon.

But why did I stop playing it? Because, even though it was good, it was absurdly boring for me to play. It was basically "Play Seismitoad, use Quaking Punch, win slowly as your opponent slams his head against the table because there's nothing he could do". And this takes away the fun away from both me and my opponents, and this is supposed to be a game to have fun.

Now, should it be banned? No. It's already too late to ban a card like that. PCL wasn't supposed to print it in the first place.

Can an Errata be issued? Yes, but not this season. I'm 90% sure that TPCi knew how OP the card was long before the errata was issued, but you can't change something like that in the middle of the season. If we're getting an errata, it will be to be applied after Worlds.
 
I think the best errata that could be issued after worlds would be to simply add a coin flip to the attack. By doing this Seismitoad will no longer be able to be teched into almost every deck ever made, but still be able to act as a stand alone deck.
 
Maximinn said:
Perhaps a Pokemon with an ability that functions similarly to Espeon's Solar Flare (or Wonder Energy) except it negates ALL effects of attacks, except damage, done by the Defending Pokemon. This would probably be overpowered on it's own so maybe it has a requirement?

Maybe something like this:
"Once during your turn, before you attack, you may discard an energy attached to this Pokemon. If you do, prevent all effects of attacks, except damage, done by your opponent's Pokemon during his or her next turn."
Click to expand...

Ability - Table Flip: Once during your turn, if your opponent has any Seismitoad EX in play, flip a table. If heads, you win. If tails, you win.

Jokes aside, have they ever issued an errata for a Pokemon? I can't think of any, but maybe they have. The only ones I can think of off the bat are all Trainers--Pokemon Catcher, Fighting Stadium / Jamming Net, and Rare Candy.
 
http://compendium.pokegym.net/compendium-bw.html

It has been done in the past, but not to the extent that trainers have been errata'd.
 
From what I'm noticing, too, it's also trying to bring the cards in line with Japanese prints; I imagine that Japanese players would also have to find Toad EX brokenly overpowered to receive the reprint.

Can anyone dig up the original Japanese text for Toad EX? I'm having a bit of trouble finding it myself, and I'm very curious to see what the original print says. While I doubt this is a typo being as it's been in the season for a good while, curiosity's getting the best of me.
 
This needs to be printed in the set after Roaring Skies.

3lg1ZmI.jpg
 
DarkMatterGaming said:
From what I'm noticing, too, it's also trying to bring the cards in line with Japanese prints; I imagine that Japanese players would also have to find Toad EX brokenly overpowered to receive the reprint.

Can anyone dig up the original Japanese text for Toad EX? I'm having a bit of trouble finding it myself, and I'm very curious to see what the original print says. While I doubt this is a typo being as it's been in the season for a good while, curiosity's getting the best of me.
Click to expand...

Seismitoad-EX – Water – HP180
Basic Pokemon

[C][C] Goo Punch: 30 damage. During your opponent’s next turn, they cannot play Item cards from their hand.
[W][W][C]: Grenade Hammer: 130 damage. This attack does 30 damage to two of your Benched Pokemon.
When a Pokemon-EX has been Knocked Out, your opponent takes 2 Prize cards.

Weakness: Grass (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 3

Looks like the exact same thing to me.
 
Frost Mage said:
DarkMatterGaming said:
From what I'm noticing, too, it's also trying to bring the cards in line with Japanese prints; I imagine that Japanese players would also have to find Toad EX brokenly overpowered to receive the reprint.

Can anyone dig up the original Japanese text for Toad EX? I'm having a bit of trouble finding it myself, and I'm very curious to see what the original print says. While I doubt this is a typo being as it's been in the season for a good while, curiosity's getting the best of me.
Click to expand...

Seismitoad-EX – Water – HP180
Basic Pokemon

[C][C] Goo Punch: 30 damage. During your opponent’s next turn, they cannot play Item cards from their hand.
[W][W][C]: Grenade Hammer: 130 damage. This attack does 30 damage to two of your Benched Pokemon.
When a Pokemon-EX has been Knocked Out, your opponent takes 2 Prize cards.

Weakness: Grass (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 3

Looks like the exact same thing to me.
Click to expand...


...Wow.

I wonder if they did this deliberately just to spike the prices for FuF up online...?

Now I'm curious about something else; what decks are topping at Japan regionals? Is Toad as dominant there, or are they doing something we just haven't looked at yet...?
 
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