Scoop Up Net Banned in Japan!

I mean if we had the format we could recognize what needs balancing. Like I just hate how boring and ugly multi prize cards are. I'd like a pretty format
 
I do not miss the constant debates during COVID between "what should be banned? Shaymin-EX or Scoop Up Net?"

Shaymin-EX was busted and Net highlighted that.

Net, in Expanded--currently--isn't a problem. I think this is Japan getting ahead of the 8-ball before an ex deck comes along and highlights that Net should have been banned earlier. Unless some tournament happened in Japan and Net was shown to be extraordinarily problematic to warrant a ban in their territory--between set releases--and not extend the ban outside of Japan

This is going to be interesting for LIVE when Expanded gets the full-on update for 2024 because 'Net was super integral for Fast Raid Donk. F.R. Donk CAN still work, but their damage output is severely hamstrung, combined with the power creep of higher HP Pokemon, it almost seems not worth playing since Fast Raid donk has a "damage ceiling", and Net was important for both damage infliction, switching, and I think drawing effects.

The only meta deck that the ban of Scoop Up Net affects would be Wall Stall. And it was a one-of. So how much this actually hurts the deck is debatable. At worst, they just switch their Ace Spec to Scoop Up Cyclone and call it a day.
 
Mudkipster07 said:
agreed
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You can thank Japan for failing to address the very cards that turn people away from the format: Tinachomp GX and Electrode GX. Lots of reasons why they didn’t, but massive favoritism towards Lugia VSTAR and to a lesser extent, Alolan Raichu is a huge reason why. But they don’t care because much less people over there aren’t turned away from it because of Tina and Trode, despite basically everyone else thinking otherwise.
 
Deseus said:
You can thank Japan for failing to address the very cards that turn people away from the format: Tinachomp GX and Electrode GX. Lots of reasons why they didn’t, but massive favoritism towards Lugia VSTAR and to a lesser extent, Alolan Raichu is a huge reason why. But they don’t care because much less people over there aren’t turned away from it because of Tina and Trode, despite basically everyone else thinking otherwise.
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Eh, it's a TPCi decision to not host any Expanded Regionals. If they did they'd likely also care about the banlist.
 
Hukutus said:
Eh, it's a TPCi decision to not host any Expanded Regionals. If they did they'd likely also care about the banlist.
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No you don’t get it, Creatures Inc is responsible for the TCG and merchandise in Japan. If they ban Net then it will/should get banned internationally. You can’t ban a card in one region for a format and have it not banned in another, not how it works. The Expanded circuit in Japan, along with international players, are very well aware of how problematic Tinachomp and Electrode have been. Even if these cards weren’t officially banned internationally yet, it would eventually set the precedent that it should get banned or at the least, recognize their inherent problems for the healthiness of the format. Japan very easily could have recognized this and included Tina and Trode as part of the band. But it’s become very obvious why they didn’t.
 
Deseus said:
No you don’t get it, Creatures Inc is responsible for the TCG and merchandise in Japan. If they ban Net then it will/should get banned internationally. You can’t ban a card in one region for a format and have it not banned in another, not how it works. The Expanded circuit in Japan, along with international players, are very well aware of how problematic Tinachomp and Electrode have been. Even if these cards weren’t officially banned internationally yet, it would eventually set the precedent that it should get banned or at the least, recognize their inherent problems for the healthiness of the format. Japan very easily could have recognized this and included Tina and Trode as part of the band. But it’s become very obvious why they didn’t.
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Creatures and TPCi have different ban lists, and we've had bans happen for TPCi regions before they were banned in Japan. IIRC Lusamine and Wally were never even banned in Japan.
 
Gethbert said:
Question to everyone: what would we have to ban from expanded to make it fun and/or balanced.
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I don't play expanded much but i guess electricity generator might be broken with electropower for them lightning GX's. ?⚡

Prism Jirachi could be crazy with chansey, Giovanni's Exile and the dice. But i don't want them to ever get banned. ?
 
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Hukutus said:
Creatures and TPCi have different ban lists, and we've had bans happen for TPCi regions before they were banned in Japan. IIRC Lusamine and Wally were never even banned in Japan.
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That doesn’t mean that Net can’t won’t be banned internationally. Considering the lack of attention Expanded has gotten, highly unlikely. But that doesn’t change anything about the fact that if Japan had banned Tinachomp and Electrode it would set future precedent for them to be banned altogether if TPCi decides to give Expanded some attention. But clearly this is not the case.
 
Bewear The TERRIBLE said:
I don't play expanded much but i guess electricity generator might be broken with electropower for them lightning GX's. ?⚡

Prism Jirachi could be crazy with chansey, Giovanni's Exile and the dice. But i don't want them to ever get banned. ?
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Electricity Generator + Max Elixir + Electropower
 
Bewear The TERRIBLE said:
I don't play expanded much but i guess electricity generator might be broken with electropower for them lightning GX's. ?⚡

Prism Jirachi could be crazy with chansey, Giovanni's Exile and the dice. But i don't want them to ever get banned. ?
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There’s a funny Jirachi prism Star deck that was a meme a while ago with greedy dice and will. Wasn’t overpowered and it won’t get banned bc it’s pretty booty cheeks but still funny lol.

E-Gen and E-Power exist in expanded miraidon but it’s not as overpowered as it sounds in theory.
 
I play Live, scoop is only available on expanded anyways. live hasnt implemented the full card list for expanded yet to be playable, all the rewards are only played on standard anyways, eg the ladder. the daily challenges are the only reason you would play expanded for the most part because you can use cards in expanded to finish the challenges faster. its not really an issue, since pokemon has been allergic to releasing cards similar to scoop up.

ADP isnt that good without double dragon energy, which is not implemented in live yet, so its really not an issue, it dies before it gets to use it gx attack anyways. they should just errata rule the iron valiant, or whatever that card is. you can shut down the donk decks, by using wobbufett, and klefki.
right now only standard is competetive, people only play expanded for daily challenges anyways
 
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Deseus said:
The only card on here that’s bannable is Electrode GX. Gengkyu GX isn’t that problematic anymore and it’s reflected in tournament standings on Limitless and Japan. For the average player, it seems overpowered but it’s really not that difficult to play around on the grand scheme of the game. In fact, Shadow Rider is on a heavy decline because Lugia Drago and Palkia all gained so much within the last few sets while Rider has virtually remained the same. Ban Electrode GX and Tinachomp GX because those are the two main issues.

Net was absolutely not a good call because no ex’s that were printed have been problematic like Shaymin EX was. Iron Valiant ex was only used for FTK decks, which aren’t even viable decks in the first place and exist strictly for ladder grinding (which isn’t a real thing IRL). Japan’s priorities towards FTK and not the real issues is very telling of the clear bias they have towards their own decks. The fact they don’t want to address and solve the REAL issues (Tinachomp and Electrode), despite the greater Pokemon community having a clear issue with these two cards, tells you all about the bias they have towards Lugia VSTAR and Alolan Raichu. It’s simple, they don’t want those decks to be worse/become irrelevant because Lugia VSTAR is practically the poster boy of Expanded over there. This is an issue that I and many other US players have had with Japan within the last year or so, which has only gotten worse and worse.
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electrode gx, tinachomp, and ALOLAN RAICHU was the most annoying thing to run into.
 
Deseus said:
This is the main issue I have with a lot of people who look at Expanded. ADP is NOT problematic in any way and being “forced” to play Ranger isn’t really a valid reason to ban it. People are too emotionally reactive to things that seem too good or annoying, rather than being a truly smart, critical thinker. Using AC on ADP isn’t as problematic so let’s look at decks that use it: ADP Dragonite and ADP Palkia.

ADP Dragonite, basic deck that can attack turn 1. AC + KO + KO is nothing noticeably different from KO + KO + KO. Your opinion and many others is largely affected by perception bias because you aren’t focused on sequencing, but what the cards do themselves.

ADP Palkia, an Evolution deck that takes time to setup but has higher damage potential. AC takes up the turn that you have “evolution sickness” during your early turns. But it doesn’t matter because it’s still the same: AC + KO + KO. Three turns to win, so it does shave off the # turns you have to win by 1 turn but Expanded is a lot more about sequencing and resource management, not just simply taking prizes. Your opponent effectively takes 3 prizes off the ADP which evens the game out for both players anyways all while you still have to setup your board.

ADP is only good against a slower deck like Shadow Rider and Wobb Stall which is very good but sees little play.

This is one of my frustrations with Expanded is the players themselves. It’s not entirely their fault, the way Japan markets Lugia and Regidrago is an issue because it doesn’t incentivize critical thinking or focusing on the real skills you need to hone. It’s all about playing cards that require minimal thinking or skill to be adept at. Ofc, all decks require some thinking. But the decks Japan uses, and the way they market them, don’t really require too much thinking or thought into resource management/sequencing which are the two most fundamental skills to being good in Expanded. Lugia, A-Raichu, and Regidrago are all made out to be extremely overpowered when they really aren’t. Yet, because they prioritize less thinking and more linear play, these decks are problematic to new/average Expanded players.
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ADP isnt good with double dragon, which isnt even available on live yet
Merovingian said:
I do not miss the constant debates during COVID between "what should be banned? Shaymin-EX or Scoop Up Net?"

Shaymin-EX was busted and Net highlighted that.

Net, in Expanded--currently--isn't a problem. I think this is Japan getting ahead of the 8-ball before an ex deck comes along and highlights that Net should have been banned earlier. Unless some tournament happened in Japan and Net was shown to be extraordinarily problematic to warrant a ban in their territory--between set releases--and not extend the ban outside of Japan

This is going to be interesting for LIVE when Expanded gets the full-on update for 2024 because 'Net was super integral for Fast Raid Donk. F.R. Donk CAN still work, but their damage output is severely hamstrung, combined with the power creep of higher HP Pokemon, it almost seems not worth playing since Fast Raid donk has a "damage ceiling", and Net was important for both damage infliction, switching, and I think drawing effects.

The only meta deck that the ban of Scoop Up Net affects would be Wall Stall. And it was a one-of. So how much this actually hurts the deck is debatable. At worst, they just switch their Ace Spec to Scoop Up Cyclone and call it a day.
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are they get a full expanded release on 2024, havnt heard of news of that yet. in any case, super scoop up and cylone will have to be a substitute for scoop up net. and probably using recycles, old computer to recycle those cards. right now expanded in live isnt really played much except for daily challenge since most of the rewards and grinding ladder is only for the standard format anyways.

expanded isnt really fun if there is no incentive of a ladder for it, like with PTGCO.
 
Deseus said:
There’s a funny Jirachi prism Star deck that was a meme a while ago with greedy dice and will. Wasn’t overpowered and it won’t get banned bc it’s pretty booty cheeks but still funny lol.

E-Gen and E-Power exist in expanded miraidon but it’s not as overpowered as it sounds in theory.
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ive seen that used many times, its a very iffy deck, and ca easily be shut down by things like klefki, and wobbufet. additionally wally and boost shake can evolve into galarian weezing or garbotoxin, to counter such a strategy. or have silent lab.
 
pokeraider123456 said:
ADP isnt good with double dragon, which isnt even available on live yet

are they get a full expanded release on 2024, havnt heard of news of that yet. in any case, super scoop up and cylone will have to be a substitute for scoop up net. and probably using recycles, old computer to recycle those cards. right now expanded in live isnt really played much except for daily challenge since most of the rewards and grinding ladder is only for the standard format anyways.

expanded isnt really fun if there is no incentive of a ladder for it, like with PTGCO.
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If you read what they announced when PTCGO was sunsetting, they stated that BW/XY cards will transfer over and be fully implemented into the game eventually. No timetable has been given but they will work on it once they’ve finished polishing the client. Last thing you want are two big formats riddled with bugs.

And yeah, the Jirachi Prism deck was more of a mental exercise, solitaire deck than anything viable. Gimmick decks in general aren’t good.

And finally someone acknowledges ADP is really not as good as people have made it out to be lol. Most people just fall into the clickbait titles you see in YouTube or social platforms like Twitter. It’s really annoying because when they showcase these decks, it creates the idea that these decks are overpowered or problematic when in some cases they aren’t. Lugia Dragons for example, is a good deck but it’s not broken (although it still warrants a Tinachomp ban), yet everyone acts like it’s unbeatable when it doesn’t do as well in BO3 format, and isn’t as favored against things like Palkia, Wobb Stall, Basic decks, etc.
 
pokeraider123456 said:
ADP isnt good with double dragon, which isnt even available on live yet

are they get a full expanded release on 2024, havnt heard of news of that yet. in any case, super scoop up and cylone will have to be a substitute for scoop up net. and probably using recycles, old computer to recycle those cards. right now expanded in live isnt really played much except for daily challenge since most of the rewards and grinding ladder is only for the standard format anyways.

expanded isnt really fun if there is no incentive of a ladder for it, like with PTGCO.
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ADP w DDE is like mew, if your teched (pokémon ranger.) Then yeah sure its buns. If you don't the deck almost immediately sreamrolls you, over all quite problematic and toxic.
 
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