Originality disappeared?

I see this going 2 ways:

1-The format is not original. I see that some cards are used in almost every deck, meaning your deck has to have those same cards(or similar) to "even" out the power. Claydol and Roseanne's are in most to all decks, because they are required to keep up with your opponent. You can't be creative with draw, because there are so few draw cards out there.

Now let's be honest, there aren't many draw cards, but there are about 100-150 unique offensive cards that I can pull right off of the top of my head. Why aren't some of these being used? Because of net decking. It's easier to just get a deck that's tested many times, and use it. And for those people who are talking about putting "their" spin on the deck, well, that's Tauros poo. I know, because I'm guilty of it too. Until you change the deck with a different strategy, it is (in my book) net decking. "Oh, you changed a Roseanne's to a Pokemon Collector. You changed a night maintenance to Time-Space-Distortion. Whop-dee-do. You are amazing. I salute your cheapness." Now, if you change the line AND strategy (because variants are the lazy man's term for "I couldn't make my own deck, so I stole one and replaced one card with another that does exactly the same job, so that I could say I made mine up), I don't mind. Flychamp, while unoriginal and overused, is not the same as Flygon Lock. However, Flychamp, and FlyPhan, are almost the same, and therefore, uncreative.

2-Original is not the correctly used term, it should be either repetitive or redundant.


----
I do say though, that there are some cards which are simply difficult to defeat. These cards force you to either use other over-used cards, or fight fire with fire.
 
SPIRE_FAN said:
my last year in seniors this year and 2 kids first year, all the kids do is copy decks, win, brag, be rude during the game and say stuff like (can you hurry it up please). they have won at every tournament which im fine with but they brag about it and they are extremely rude probally cuase of all the power (they think is) on there side.
Alright, this is ridiculous. Firstly, these kids are great sports. They don't copy decks, they play decks that WIN. How is saying "can you hurry up please" rude? And yeah he wanted you to hurry up. You were taking like an hour to shuffle and he was trying to deck you. People who win should brag a little. It took them a LOT of hard work to get there, and playing a "meta" deck does not make them scrubs in any way. They deserve recognition for their achievements. Just cause you like to try to fit in every single grass Pokemon in existence into the same deck, doesn't mean you should hate on the people that end up winning. If nothing else, they are at least above a poor sport that can't even win.
 
I've only read pages 1 and 6, but from what I'm getting here, there's a tension between mindsets. I remember reading an article from the Magic: The Gathering card designers separating people between Timmy, Johnny, and Spike, and it seems that the Johnnies and Spikes in this topic are butting heads, unable to see eye to eye. The Johnny is the person who wants to win with style; he (or she) makes up a deck that's intentionally against the grain of the metagame. The Spike is the person who wants to win, period; he (or she) looks for the best possible deck other people have created, then hones himself (or herself) to strive to win tournaments. The big difference is that Johnny wants to exercise his (or her) creativity whereas Spike sees creativity as unimportant compared to winning. You'll see Johnny and Timmy more often at League play and Spikes at tournaments. As this place seems to be largely competitive, this site is Spike-dominated, with a smattering of Johnnies and Timmies here and there.

I am a Johnny player myself; I am a nonconformist. My goal is to create an archetype, rather than following within one. I have not been able to place above the middle ranks in any tournament I've been in, but I have beaten people who use archetypes with them. I'll be heading to the Regionals in Long Beach this year with a Raticate deck I've put together I call "Oh Rats." I tried it out against the local league, and it seems I'll have to do some tweaking for it to deal with Donphan. I hope it hasn't been put into wide use... I'm not as concerned about winning as most people here are though; I'm typically at a tournament to see how the competitive culture has grown. I'm there to observe, and there's no better way to observe than to participate.

That being said, I'll drop a concept here: Every deck that's ever become an archetype was a rogue when it began. A new deck cannot come into being, let alone the metagame, until someone has the guts to give it a try and it happens to do well.

Omastar said:
Alright, this is ridiculous. Firstly, these kids are great sports. They don't copy decks, they play decks that WIN. How is saying "can you hurry up please" rude? And yeah he wanted you to hurry up. You were taking like an hour to shuffle and he was trying to deck you. People who win should brag a little. It took them a LOT of hard work to get there, and playing a "meta" deck does not make them scrubs in any way. They deserve recognition for their achievements. Just cause you like to try to fit in every single grass Pokemon in existence into the same deck, doesn't mean you should hate on the people that end up winning. If nothing else, they are at least above a poor sport that can't even win.

Wow, there were enough straw men in that single paragraph to keep Central Park free of crows.

Being polite means you tolerate your opponent unless they're breaking the rules, you speak like a gentleman or a lady, and most of all, you respect and understand the decisions your opponents make. Shaking the opponent's hand and wishing for a good game is good sportsmanship. Yelling at them to hurry up is bad sportsmanship.
 
(ok this going to be a long post so bear with me I got alot to say)

Ok I think I will join the thread this now because I can relate to this subject to to the fullest degree. would have commented sooner but the Home PC was being fixed and had toused the time limited Local Library PC :(

Anyway I posted in thread like this mouth too ago and Qnetykz was the same guy that answered my question about how this lovey game's of are is. By the way dude you Again you just seem to come up with right and most logical answers IMO. and see you still doing it...so I will give my best shot here to do the same

I will Admit that I too had problems with seeing the same deck styles, I still do to a point but my problems lays with the copy of other decks idea for the sake of winning not the everyone that useing the same Core cards for decks. I been playing a very long time, I'm 28 been playing from Base set Etc. took a long lay off but not by choice then got back in a year ago and like many in this thread had problem because I was getting beat and saw the same card beating my rear end down and when you lose a lot its gets to you and things race through your mind and ya start acting like a sore loser because can't understand why there stale idea's win and your's don't..and hurts even more you have the money and resources to get cards you need and work hard and still lose.

I had very hard time excepting that fact "I" was reason for losing "I" was the reason why I was not having fun. I pointed the finger at the players better then me for the reason why I was losing and not myself.

Then I had a talk with good friends and players in my area, and with players like "qnetykz" and then at last I saw the truth. and I had become much better Player and Example for other players, Now I'm no Elite Player by any means I still lose as much as I win, After I lose I look what I did, what mistakes I made and fix my play and my decks, I play alot of rogue. and I"m one of those player that like play for fun at leagues, and play the good players to get better. its how you get better

The way look at things now and because Run my own league. I come to see the biggest challenge to any card game and qnetykz and other players touched on this is "DECKBUILDING" It it this most important and hardest thing pick up one and it can become very frustrating because of too reasons. 1. you have no money or resources or have no luck in trades to give yourself a chance to learn 2. you have the first thing and have nothing to show for it because you lack the common Sense and Patients to learn from your mistakes.. I was number 2 for a long time. If I didn't have good friends I still be acting like a small child. and now I've won respect because of the change of my mindset. believe me Guys and Gals I been there, you just have the will to fight through the frustration..

I'm no meta gamer now but I look at metagame differently now, I still don't like it, but it not going anywear, So I continue to my thing with my decks but look at thing this alot different from the norm, I take Meta game Idea's and still my own idea's and pokemon and still make my own decks useibg mix those idea's and mine. I look at meta game decks as "I know whats coming and that an advantage because I build my decks to fight them of the match up is right and my deck are to my own style" not "I hate them I will not play them because there better"

IMO I think the biggest issues are Deck-building, and if don't have the patients to do it, you start net-decking because you want win so bad and prove yourself. Its an EGO thing, human nature.

My other issue Is how People deal with success. I had to suspend one of my nephews from my league because of his unacceptable behavior, with help mosty me and my friends at league he got good but then he land few big wins over myself and other good players and then his head blows up.

To me if your a good player and your peers see that, there going to watch you and young players starting off will look up to you and copy you. it simple old saying of "monkey see monkey do" IMO when your good player, you have to be Humble about it, remembering who helped you get those cards, who teached you how deckbuild. ETC and passing that down new players.

Have a Humble and Respectful mindset is one things I talk about up and coming good players. but not just about this card game it about life as well.

I'tx ok to have some swagger in you step and confidants, you worked hard to get to your skill level "hours and money put into your hobbie" went into your play. but when you start disrespecting your opponent with non stop trash talk and you know let them know yourbetter then them. you beat them then rub in there face, or asking them hurry up so there can destroy you and gives you that look that you your 3 inches tall to them and there a pokemon GOD (trust me i speak from getting the look from people and not in playful way). you know that uncalled for, but worse is when they show that just just as good as them and hurts there ego to the point were winning becomes At as costs no losing to lower player and given them credit when it do and tell them "well played you got me"

My nephew had this happen to him and he been got caught cheating after his Excessive trash talking and Excuses didn't work on the better players at my league. and it hurt to see this good kid became a Egomaniac, and all did was make himself look bad

My point when you very good player you like a Pro Athlete or Movie or Rock star of pokemon. and other players like myself will look up to you and ask you for advice and want learn from you, If you act like a jerk and look down at people lower then you in skill and disrespect the players better then you talking too much junk, the lower skill players will be frustrated with you and better players will laugh at you. (I can bet Qnetykz you see what I'm tlaking about in many card games you judged over the years)

now I;m not talking about anyone are here, I am pointing what I've seen over the years and goes on's at my league, everyone at my league Respect each other, and our idea's and we respect when we are given constitutive criticism. unless were talking of our butts, but also have few problem players that had to deal with and it not easy when the game itself no matter up is in the the end "a game"

IMO I believe I think if your the best player at you league to the player that won states and has gone to worlds more then few times or the frustrated new player that just can't seem get bone thrown your way for once. no one likes a Egomanic or Poor sport. and there never and time for that type of behavior and it don't matter if you back every word that come our mouths, let your play do your talking, and keep the EGO or poor sportsmanship at the door. and lighten up

And thats my view of things. I don't think its the Originality that making players frustrated, other then mindless netdecking but it going to happen and can't control it, that frustration and Finger pointing comes from Deckbuilding and Lack of Respect and Poor sportsmanship.

and that's my view sorry this being so long.. thanks
 
I prefer to play archetype decks with my own spin on them, they tend to work rather well.
I play to win, having fun comes 2nd.
 
Ok please tell me this bitter old tread isn't being brought back. isn't 6 pages enoght room to vent.

This is to all of you saying us who uses meta decks have no creativity. Guess what, we don't care. Hey i'm sure you hit the nail on the head for a lot of people. If you want to be mad at us for using meta decks and not thinking of our own, well you obviously dont look very deep into tournaments. If you ever saw the depth that goes into every move these people make in the big top cut games, you could never say that they dont have creativity and resourcefulness. We plan our moves from the beginning of the game, constantly changing and adapting our game plan. Have you ever thought that your crappy rouge decks just don't give USE enough room for our creativity, our strategic thinking. The best meta decks are the adaptible ones.

And if you dont like it well fine. You dont have to play us at league. But the second you enter a premier event you've entered OUR world, the world we put hundreds of hours into over the years. And the next time you finish 1-4 in a big tourney, instead of running home crying, do l what I do. Go watch them play in the top cut. And see just how creative we truly are.

TREAD CLOSED PLEASE!
 
Lolmonster said:
but why play knowing you'll always lose?

Hope. And noncompetitiveness. Remember that not everybody plays to win, first and foremost.

The Timmy/Johnny/Spike article mentions that a Johnny is happy if he can win even once. Me, that's exactly where I stand. I don't care how many times I lose; I'd like to see some interesting matches. I only use rogues, but very seldom is there, as TV Tropes put it, a "Curb Stomp Battle." As long as I can play a complete game and learn more about how my opponent and I work, that's good enough.

I respect the metagame and I can understand the psychology of it, but it's something that I choose to stay out of as I derive no fun from it.
 
See, I'm all for originality, as I've said. But running Claydol and Uxie is a lot different from running a FLychamp or Gengar. I mean, staple cards are good. You wouldn't not run Rosy's because everyone uses it.
 
I got a feeling everyone's gonna start running 2-2 Staraptor FB Lv. X tech's in the next Modified Season, but it's still just a hunch...
 
Card Slinger J said:
I got a feeling everyone's gonna start running 2-2 Staraptor FB Lv. X tech's in the next Modified Season, but it's still just a hunch...

I think so too - it's the claydol replacement.

THERE IS NO ORIGINALITY - everyone's strategy is to draw, nothing more...
 
Omastar said:
Alright, this is ridiculous. Firstly, these kids are great sports. They don't copy decks, they play decks that WIN. How is saying "can you hurry up please" rude? And yeah he wanted you to hurry up. You were taking like an hour to shuffle and he was trying to deck you. People who win should brag a little. It took them a LOT of hard work to get there, and playing a "meta" deck does not make them scrubs in any way. They deserve recognition for their achievements. Just cause you like to try to fit in every single grass Pokemon in existence into the same deck, doesn't mean you should hate on the people that end up winning. If nothing else, they are at least above a poor sport that can't even win.

lol...calm down, I understand where he was coming from, however...his ire is directed at the wrong players...there are plenty of players out there that do take their winning completely to their heads...while pokemon has a varitible low percentage of poor sports, they do exist...but to be honest, imo, I think that most of those that are poor sports are more on the losing side of the spectrum...his issue with those boys is really just frustration on his part due to his poor deck building skills

and SPIRE...you do play kinda slow, even when you try to play fast, you are still fairly slow
 
Most players when they start any game rely on netdecking to help understand what can be done with the cards, and what is staples. I run a flygon donphan nidoqueen deck, my own version that I started developing when donphan was first announced. After some autolosses by Kingdra and rogue blastoise decks in my meta I changed it to help counter water, etc. While many people use flygon it does not mean that everyone netdecks. I refuse to run uxies and azelfs (except in my SP decks for emergencies). I also run rogue decks (like an absol G Lv. X that I am developing), and a water rogue using the blastoise and energy acceleration. Staples are staples and I admit to using claydols, etc... but the people who tend to pull lists and play them exactly are not the top tier.

BTW I have the most fun playing little Jrs. using my unlimited decks that were developed for that purpose (I love holon engine). If the point is to win then come up with some secret deck that will kill all or run a proven combo, just do not rely on the net for thinking.
 
I'm very certain that next rotation after Worlds this year originality will flourish. Cause let's face it we've already went through 2 Seasons of DP-On, it's time for a change.

My only main concern is having to tear apart 2 of my decks, one of which I don't mind tearing apart. I've already built 2 of my decks to keep up with the possible upcoming rotation later this year.

Never hurts to plan ahead.
 
Omastar said:
Alright, this is ridiculous. Firstly, these kids are great sports. They don't copy decks, they play decks that WIN. How is saying "can you hurry up please" rude? And yeah he wanted you to hurry up. You were taking like an hour to shuffle and he was trying to deck you. People who win should brag a little. It took them a LOT of hard work to get there, and playing a "meta" deck does not make them scrubs in any way. They deserve recognition for their achievements. Just cause you like to try to fit in every single grass Pokemon in existence into the same deck, doesn't mean you should hate on the people that end up winning. If nothing else, they are at least above a poor sport that can't even win.

ok ok first of all i dont mind them using copied decks it is "in the game" but this and yes my friend Ambi agrees is wat they 1 of them (not going to name who) did
1) everytime i took my turn he would look at his watch, look around the place, and keep on saying "can you hurry it up please"
2) the boasting is extremely full of stupidity,

now i will say they are nice kids but when it comes to the game they are nothing but rude and boasting kids.

now i do know you are his older brother (which i actually thought you where pretty nice) but the thing is its not the losing i hate it's them being horrible sports. IMO i think its always better to lose and be a good sport then to win and gloat,brag,etc.

but hey thats just me ;)
 
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