Article New Kids on the Block: New Decks from Ancient Origins in XY-On

Oh man, not sure about that Vespiquen list.

DCE alone is suicide at this point of the game. You definitely need even 3 Basic Energy IMO, even if it slows the deck.

A slightly slower deck > Auto-loss if they run an Aegislash or Two. Hex Maniac is not gonna be able to save you imo.
 
TheStrictNein said:
Oh man, not sure about that Vespiquen list.

DCE alone is suicide at this point of the game. You definitely need even 3 Basic Energy IMO, even if it slows the deck.

A slightly slower deck > Auto-loss if they run an Aegislash or Two. Hex Maniac is not gonna be able to save you imo.
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Like I said, it's up to you! A lot of it is going to depend on the meta; if there isn't really any Aegislash, it won't be as much of a problem, obviously. Also, another issue is that taking the turn to manually attach can easily get you KO'd. However, I included the suggestion because I thought it was a good plan, I just prefer having the speed from personal testing.
Thanks for the feedback!
 
Yeah, Hex Maniac plus maybe splashing a Silent Lab can help against Aegis. But I agree that DCE alone can get you in trouble with so many Enhanced Hammers around that don't need coin flips, 3-4 basic energy is a great thing. Or even a Ranbow energy to use the Eeveelutions as attackers is an option against Fire decks that would tear the V-queen apart.

Metal decks and Aegislash were all over nationals and I'm seeing a lot of metal in the local scene too... any deck running 2v Flareon to hit metal should also be looking at hitting Aegislash.
 
What about Miltank/Vileplume? It can probably be a thing... i dunno. At least it's worth testing
 
jpaulo.fh said:
What about Miltank/Vileplume? It can probably be a thing... i dunno. At least it's worth testing
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I like that idea! The only problem I can see is the low damage output, but Im sure we'll be able to figure something out. Thanks for the deck idea!
 
I think Bad Energy actually isn't bad. Let's say you take a 3-5 split of special-basic darkness energy. Even if you get the bad energy in the discard, there's generally some basic energy to get back with turbo or oblivion wing. These are also the ones you compress, or discard for ultra balls. Meanwhile, the TTar deck is probably the best one to run Bad Energy in, since the threat of 2 damage counters may keep the opponent from attacking at all if he cannot afford the guaranteed follow-up knock-out.
 
Alexander Degtyarev said:
I think Bad Energy actually isn't bad. Let's say you take a 3-5 split of special-basic darkness energy. Even if you get the bad energy in the discard, there's generally some basic energy to get back with turbo or oblivion wing. These are also the ones you compress, or discard for ultra balls. Meanwhile, the TTar deck is probably the best one to run Bad Energy in, since the threat of 2 damage counters may keep the opponent from attacking at all if he cannot afford the guaranteed follow-up knock-out.
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The main reason I ended up cutting bad energy from the build was that I preferred to be able to get energy in the discard, then on TTar, as soon and as easily as possible. I honestly think the bats and Yveltal can set up KOs just fine, and I'm not sure anyone would deter to the point of not attacking from fear of bad energy when it's entirely possible they could just drop a bat anyway. However, if you like them, don't let me stop you! Run the deck however you're most comfortable.
Thanks for the feedback!
 
Everyone forgets or ignores Ampharos :( and I think it has the potential to be a real trouble with the paralysis and 170 damage output. Alongside MegaMan it can be set up in no time! And you have Rough Seas or Protection Cube to avoid the own damage :)
 
Not much added in this set deck wise, but a lot of great techs and additions to current decks is going to what makes the new format feel even more fresh. Like TheStrictNein said, in our current meta without Trump Card, ONLY playing DCE is super risky, especially when Wailord-EX has a lot of hype (although I'm sure it will die down a bit with the lose of Hugh and rise of grass deck usage). I'm surprised you didn't mention Machamp EX or Giratina EX(as a stand alone deck). I don't really think these decks are necessarily amazing, but a lot of people are hype about them. Overall a very nice article, great work!

Ratpool said:
Everyone forgets or ignores Ampharos :( and I think it has the potential to be a real trouble with the paralysis and 170 damage output. Alongside MegaMan it can be set up in no time! And you have Rough Seas or Protection Cube to avoid the own damage :)
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I've been thinking about this deck a lot, because honestly Paralysis is OP af now that Keldeo is gone. And with Rough Seas the damage to yourself can be easily played around. My only fear is that it's weakness to Fighting will give it a fair amount of bad match ups (although the special energy from this set helps out with that), but we'll just have to see how the next few months play out (but if I get enough of the line I'll definitely build one just for fun)
 
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Giratina EX and M Sceptile in the same deck why?

No mention of vileplume + giratina ex deck really?

What is with the lack of stadium cards? It doesnt really seem to be a good idea to use Giratina without actually having a stadium of your own, as well as Giant forrest of plants makes you able to put down M Sceptile turn one which seems devastating.
 
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Ratpool said:
Everyone forgets or ignores Ampharos :( and I think it has the potential to be a real trouble with the paralysis and 170 damage output. Alongside MegaMan it can be set up in no time! And you have Rough Seas or Protection Cube to avoid the own damage :)
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I played around with Ampharos for a little while, but I discovered that it just wasn't worth the investment, and I'll explain why:
Say you choose to take the damage and paralyze the Defending Pokemon. Now, assume your opponent doesn't have a switch card or you play trainer lock, either way. Pretty favorable, right? Well, now your opponent has a turn to help set up a new Pokemon for after the unusable active is KO'd. You've basically invested that much energy in something little better than an OHKO. If you'd been able to KO the defending Pokemon in the first place, they couldn't have gotten that advantage.

TL;DR: Paralysis lock is great when and only when you have some way to manipulate damage (such as dusknoir) that makes it better than a OHKO
Thanks for the input though! If you really like Ampharos, play it anyway! This game is all about fun, right?

DevinTheWelf said:
Not much added in this set deck wise, but a lot of great techs and additions to current decks is going to what makes the new format feel even more fresh. Like TheStrictNein said, in our current meta without Trump Card, ONLY playing DCE is super risky, especially when Wailord-EX has a lot of hype (although I'm sure it will die down a bit with the lose of Hugh and rise of grass deck usage). I'm surprised you didn't mention Machamp EX or Giratina EX. I don't really think these decks are necessarily amazing, but a lot of people are hype about them. Overall a very nice article, great work!



I've been thinking about this deck a lot, because honestly Paralysis is OP af now that Keldeo is gone. And with Rough Seas the damage to yourself can be easily played around. My only fear is that it's weakness to Fighting will give it a fair amount of bad match ups (although the special energy from this set helps out with that), but we'll just have to see how the next few months play out (but if I get enough of the line I'll definitely build one just for fun)
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I did mention Giratina EX in the second list! As for Machamp EX, I didn't have a build I was happy enough with in all honesty. I like the deck, but it's still in development. Thanks for the input! :)

exxtrooper said:
Giratina EX and M Sceptile in the same deck why?

No mention of vileplume + giratina ex deck really?
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Honestly, without some kind of acceleration, Giratina isn't really fast enough to be used on its own. As for Vieplume/Giratina, the deck just struggles in the fact that Giratina is slow and damage output isn't great. With Sceptile, this is offset by healing and the 110 from setting up.
Thanks for the input!

EDIT: after you added the bit about stadiums, I felt the need to add this. I seriously considered Giant Plant Forest, but short of Turn 1 it isn't quite as useful (still good, but not that good). It came down to consistancy, though I am playing around with throwing a couple in there! :)
 
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Liriane said:
I did mention Giratina EX in the second list! As for Machamp EX, I didn't have a build I was happy enough with in all honesty. I like the deck, but it's still in development. Thanks for the input! :)
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I meant as a stand alone deck, people are stupidly hype about it. Sorry I wasn't more clear, edited my post :p
 
DevinTheWelf said:
I meant as a stand alone deck, people are stupidly hype about it. Sorry I wasn't more clear, edited my post :p
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No problem! I was just confused haha. As for that, I honestly just prefer to partner Giratina; it's strong, but not as fast as I'd like. Also, if your opponent happens to be playing a hard hitting non-mega (Vespiquen, Dialga-EX, etc) you just end up getting rolled. At least, that's how I understand it! Thanks again for the input!
 
Liriane said:
The main reason I ended up cutting bad energy from the build was that I preferred to be able to get energy in the discard, then on TTar, as soon and as easily as possible. I honestly think the bats and Yveltal can set up KOs just fine, and I'm not sure anyone would deter to the point of not attacking from fear of bad energy when it's entirely possible they could just drop a bat anyway. However, if you like them, don't let me stop you! Run the deck however you're most comfortable.
Thanks for the feedback!
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My point is that fewer basic energy is still enough to do anything you want to do with it. You can only have 4 Mega Turbo in the deck. Realisitically speaking, that means you don't need more than 4 basic energy in the discard pile. You only need 2 to attack, as well. The math is simply in favor of Bad Energy, is what I'm saying, since there are no downsides. Give them a try sometime. Use 2-6 if you're more comfortable with that. I generally find 6 basic energy more than enough for Dark type acceleration.
 
I personally wish there were more/better tools in the Mega TTar list. You definitely need hard charm in there as well as possibly lucky helmet and/or sparkling robe (depending on how big ariados gets). I think EXP share is interesting, but with Yveltal, Mega Tubo, and a regular energy attachment, you should be fine to get up M TTar by turn 2, 3 latest.
 
Elbow said:
I personally wish there were more/better tools in the Mega TTar list. You definitely need hard charm in there as well as possibly lucky helmet and/or sparkling robe (depending on how big ariados gets). I think EXP share is interesting, but with Yveltal, Mega Tubo, and a regular energy attachment, you should be fine to get up M TTar by turn 2, 3 latest.
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Well, to be honest I would agree on more variety if you could have 2 'utility' tools attached to M TTar, but since you need link, you only get one. That's why I felt that EXP Share was the best choice, however if I had a second option I would, as I mentioned, include Lucky Helmet, or, as a meta call, weakness policy. EXP share isnt in the deck to help get M TTar up faster, it's to help with the 2nd and even 3rd M TTar, which normally can be a sore spot for the deck.
Thanks for the input!

aernold said:
any thoughts on giratina/vileplume?
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Vieplume/Giratina, well, the deck just struggles in the fact that Giratina is slow and damage output isn't great. I don't know if Vileplume really helps with any matchups, but I know that Sceptile can. With Sceptile, the lack of damage is offset by the 110 from setting up. Not to mention healing is pretty cool too!
Thanks for the input!
 
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Looking at the Vespiquen Deck... Yeah, I'd say having only 4 Double Colorless Energy is too risky these days for pretty much any deck right now. But if you want to keep it that way, try adding in a Bunnelby to get your energies back from the discard pile.

Now, one idea for energy acceleration: With Flareon out and Fire energy in your discard, use Blacksmith on Vespiquen near the endgame. You'll still be able to get consistent energy support, even with all the Double colorless discarded. I made up a deck the uses this technique with AT Golurk, and it could work quite well with Vespiquen too.
 
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