Mega Metagross Revealed in ‘CoroCoro’ [7/10]
- Thread starter Water Pokémon Master
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In my opinion, Mega Metagross is very cool, HP will be the same, Attack, Defense, SP. Attack and Sp. Defense will be updated (or increased), and Speed will fell
Total of Metagross: 600
Total of Mega Metagross: 700
Here is the video I saw this information:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrVyRZHfyA8
Total of Metagross: 600
Total of Mega Metagross: 700
Here is the video I saw this information:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrVyRZHfyA8
Keeper of Night said:
..by adding a spike. I didn't even notice there were holes underneath. Now it looks as though they just reorganized Metagross. I do want to see the proper model and official artwork though. A bad scan isn't enough to judge. Maybe it has some new attacking animation.
Keeper of Night said:
Mega Evolution.
Also most of the current Mega Evolutions have shown new and interesting designs. Why shouldn't we expect new things?
So when is the full scan supposed to come out?
Metagross is a space ship now, we're all doomed.
I actually think this Mega is pretty good, it's no Mega Houndoom, but it's good! I can understand people disliking it as the spike is kinda just out of no where, but come on guys, what were they suppose to do with a Pokemon that evolves by getting new limbs from it's buds? As KoN said, I think the spike thingy under Metagross is a Metang. I can't wait for a better shot of it, I feel like this one isn't doing it justice.
I actually think this Mega is pretty good, it's no Mega Houndoom, but it's good! I can understand people disliking it as the spike is kinda just out of no where, but come on guys, what were they suppose to do with a Pokemon that evolves by getting new limbs from it's buds? As KoN said, I think the spike thingy under Metagross is a Metang. I can't wait for a better shot of it, I feel like this one isn't doing it justice.
Delta said:
Regardless of what they're called, that doesn't change what they are. They are temporary form changes that are only seen in battle and not evolutions.
An evolution is Turtwig > Grotle. The entire form changes. The name changes. While they are similar, they are not the same Pokémon at all.
A Mega Evolution is simply Charizard > Mega Charizard. It's obvious there what Mega Charizard really is. It's a bigger, better Charizard. The Mega Charizard. But it isn't a completely new Pokémon.
As far as I can tell, besides maybe Pinsir, no Mega has changed any Pokémon drastically. Some of them may be enough to be considered cheap evolutions ("Lets make it BIGGER!") but not really.
What Megas have added more than Metagross, really?
Swampert? Ok. Let's look:
Dont get me wrong, I love Swampert and its Mega. But honestly, Swampert just gets bigger, as I said. Its been emphasized forever that an evolution shouldn't be just a bigger form of the last stage (like Mantyke > Mantine), so if you consider Mega Evolution an evolution, why are you satisfied with this?
I do, however, agree. This could easily have been a real evolution. But if it was, I wouldn't be happy with it. For a real, actual, evolution, there's so much more they could do.
But every Mega is the same. They took the design of the original Pokémon, added enough to it to call it a "Mega Evolution", and that's it. The only mega that I, personally, would ever see as more than a form change would be Mega Pinsir. But even that is more like its just opening its shell to let wings out.
To begin with, the change in appearance between Beldum > Metang > Metagross wasn't very drastic. It was more conceptual than anything, like Klink > Klang > Klinklang. Also like that line, the Beldum line's theme is combining, and Mega Metagross faithfully follows that. Presumably, two more Beldums and one more Metang fuse with it. It's exactly what I would expect the next stage of Metagross to be and it's exactly what we got.
CMP said:
As keeper just said, that's pretty much the concept of megaevolution, aesthetically speaking; adding to an existent design without changing its original meaning; that is translated into more flamboyant, complex or exaggerated designs. most pokemon change significantly upon evolution; megas only change many small details, or reinforce existing, significant features.
Let's take a look, shall we?
Abomasnow gets some huge tree-looking icicles growing from its back. As a result, it has to walk in four legs; not much difference there.
Absol gains a pair of wings that are not useful to fly; however, they also work towards the concept of bad-good it always had going, where it was taken as a carrier of catastrophes but he actually was just misunderstood. Not much change, just a concept reinforcement and some stylistic change.
Aerodactyl... well, I don't know. They gave it rocks jutting out of it because... it didn't look stupid enough?
Aggron gets bulkier and pure steel, gains a chestplate, the things on its shoulders grow and it gets a wicked shredder-like helmet. So, just a more badass aggron.
Alakazam uses its incredible intellect to grow a beard and gets some shiny new silverware; I can't say there's anyhting wrong with that.
Interesting detail, look how its legs got smaller and underdeveloped, like it doesn't even needs them now.
Ampharos, of course, took some classes in the "thor school of kickassery and having great hair" which is grand. It's also the return of mareep's fluffy coat, but now in a thor-like manner. Do you really see megaampharos with a giant afro?
I didn't think so.
Banette developed zippers out of nowhere and then opened those zippers to grow hands and legs; it's kind of out of nowhere, really; personally, I would have had the limbs just break through the fabric it's body is supposed to be.
Blaziken just got some black color (he did need it; that yellow was too cheery for him) and the flames in its wrists are now like whips. I always felt blaziken's fire wrists were just an afterthought; now they make a bit more sense; more fighting-like.
Blastoise changed two back cannons for one weapon of mass destruction and got two nice hand cannons in the process.
Oh, and a goatee. The goatee is crucial.
Charizard Y just becomes sleeker, loses the beer gut and grows some wing-like spikes; looks great. Charizard X looks like it guards the gates of hades, but it was essentially some fanservice to make charizard a dragon. One of them seems redundant; the fact that they didn't just scrap charizard Y in favor of hte much awaited dragon-fire charizard speaks volumes of the value that style of mega evolution has to gamefreak.
Mega diancie, in my opinon, at least, ruined it; it was already perfect; but that huge dress/bottom diamond just threw its vertical proportion to hell.
It was decidedly an exaggeration of diancie's features.
Garchomp is another exaggeration. "what do you mean? it doesn't have enough teeth? well, make its chest full of teeth then. And make its scythes bigger too, we don't want anyone thinking garchomp can't cut you in half with one blow". I think a great improvement would be removing either both yellow and red, or just the yellow. Maybe replace something with black.
Gardevoir is like ampharos; just a more formal-looking dress, another spike in its chest (superflous change, in my opinion) and its elf-like protrusions join in its temple like a crown. It's also freakishly thin now; reminds me of myself so much.
The only thing I might find strange is the lack of green, but the shiny makes up for that.
Gengar phases through the floor, but keeps its overall shape and changes is palette to lose volume, now it's more like a shadow. The third eye is crap, and its color should have changed to a much darker shade of its regular color, but not a big change overall.
Mega gyarados gets more buff and grows some sail-y wings, nothing more. It does gain the color red, that is... something?
heracross gets bigger forearms... for some reason. It also gets a more mechanical look and some ugly orange. put its old arms in there, and it's all set; before it had to use its horn as a lariat, now it can just grab with its nose and horn.
Houndoom gets metal as f***, but not much else; it is still a hellhound.
Kangaskhan is genius; such a simple change with so much meaning behind it (it is a bit overpowered, though)
I don't know what they were smoking when they made this, but I would like to know, and avoid it if possible; latias and latios are so good, and they come and ruin it with that monstrosity. But the overall shape is still recognizable; you can even guess it's a shared mega based on its color.
Lucario becomes super saiyan and rastafari, not much else.
Its spikes are now in the direction of his fists, so they actually hurt now.
Manectric gets a bad hair day; just that, an exaggereation of the idea that it stores electricity in its mane.
Mawile gets a pink kimono and grows another mouth, maybe more hair-like than before; another concept reinforcement.
So with medicham; the yoga posture, the turbant, the skirt and beads and the extra hands reinforce the notion of the mind as a means to the perfection of the body, like yoga and all that hindu stuff.
I have no idea what to make of mega mewtwo X; Y at least looks like a further refinement of mewtwo, becoming less mew-like, but X... I guess it's the physical counterpart to Y
Pinsir is pinsir... with wings. The eyes are the worst part.
Sceptile becomes more badass, and now it can launch its tail and regenerate it, like many lizards; now it came full circle.
Scizor becomes more mechanical, there seems to be a trend in bug-type megas to make them more mechanical; heracross's vents, pinsir's spikes propping up its back to release the wings, plus its arm wings, and now scizor gets a lot of straight, sharp angles and changes its yellow color for more black and a cool blue (a great change). but it just exaggereates scizor's scizorness, albeit less than others (coughlucariocough).
Swampert hits the gym and goes from some lean-looking mudfish-thing to full "the rock". It just reinforces its concept of a bulky, physically strong pokemon (which I don't really know where it came from)
Tyranitar I don't quite get it yet; it seems to follow aggron's pattern, but the chest face throws me off; there was no need for it. Some scary thing in the head would have been better to make it more scary; the red in its chest makes it look too clownish.
But, exaggeration, flamboyance, all that.
Venusaur gets fatter, and it grows a small jungle on its back, vines and all; again, reinforcement; not much change.
Then, you have mega metagross, who goes from being a quadruped tank with three small metal claws in each leg to:
Levitating
Moving its hind legs to the front and lower body, facing front
Growing three shovel-like, enormous claws in each of its old legs
Gaining a giant steel spike in its lower front body
Getting four (four!) beldum-like appendages, facing backwards
Those are huge, regular-old-evolution-worthy changes; the only change similar to the other megaevolutions is the steel spike and the golden X in its face; the others, at least two should go.
I get that the change appears to reinforce the concept of combination that is the gimmick of the beldum line, but it's still too much, aesthetically speaking; the only reminiscence between each stage of the line and its component stages were a familiar, scraggy shape and its color; now they just mashed them all together into a voltron of needless complexity and exaggeration. Yes, it looks like metagross still. But it would have looked just as much as metagross without the giant claws, the steel spike and the beldum turbines, or withouth the repositioned arms and the steel spike. Or any combination of the elements that compose the entire beldum line.
They took it too far this time.
Even pokémon forms have to show some difference... Not all do that, but things like Giratina-O, the Kami Trio Therian formes or the Kyurems are different enough from the old forms... and they're just forms... Even if Mega Evos are just supposed to be stronger forms and not actual evolutions, they must present different enough additions to their designs to make them unique and differentiate them from their "weaker forms"... That's what the Kyurems I mentioned above do...
I already hate actual evolutions that are not much different from the base form (Cinccino, Klinklang, etc.)... I don't hate the pokémon, but by some people's logic, Cinccino and Klinklang should be Mega evos, not actual evos...
Mewtwo Y is one of the best examples to me... We still recognize it as Mewtwo, yet, it is different enough to distinguish it from regular Mewtwo, whether you prefer to consider the concept an evolution or just a super form...
And honestly, I don't know what I would do different to some of the Megas (I mean, thinking right off the bat), but I've seen better fan art on the internet of possible (or even existing) Megas than some of the official Megas...
I already hate actual evolutions that are not much different from the base form (Cinccino, Klinklang, etc.)... I don't hate the pokémon, but by some people's logic, Cinccino and Klinklang should be Mega evos, not actual evos...
Mewtwo Y is one of the best examples to me... We still recognize it as Mewtwo, yet, it is different enough to distinguish it from regular Mewtwo, whether you prefer to consider the concept an evolution or just a super form...
And honestly, I don't know what I would do different to some of the Megas (I mean, thinking right off the bat), but I've seen better fan art on the internet of possible (or even existing) Megas than some of the official Megas...
I use "form" for a lack of a better word. Mega Evolutions aren't specific form changes like the ones you mentioned, nor are they evolutions. What are they then? I suppose the only way to describe them is Awakened. When a Pokémon Mega Evolves, its "true potential" is brought out. When a Pokémon simply changes forms, its potential isn't brought forth, it's changed.
Rotom changes type upon form change. It doesn't get any better, but it becomes different from the original.
Thundurus is great in either form, they are just different.
Kyurem isn't a viable example. Its a fusion of two Pokémon. Honestly, the Kyurem forms look more like Reshiram/Zekrom than Kyurem (which, I believe, is the whole idea).
Klinklang is metallic, maybe even invented by humans, or a byproduct of them in some way. Most of the Pokémon following this patteren just increase, or change little (Trubbish/Garbodor, Voltorb/Electrode, Magnemite/Magneton, ect.).
Cinccino is another example of what I said before with Mantyke/Mantine. If people are unhappy with evolutions that are just bigger forms, why do they accept Megas as evolutions?
However, they really couldn't have made Minccino without an evolution. They could have done more, sure, but how much? I suppose some Pokémon don't have to evolve too much to achieve the perfection their species allows.
Mewtwo is man-made. It makes sense that one of its forms breaks the shell humans put over it. Its other form is... What a normal Mega Evo is. Pretty much just adding stuff to Mewtwo, instead of changing it more dramatically.
I believe there are better threads for this conversation, and this thread should stay on-topic.
Metagross as a Mega is technically redesigned, just like MewtwoY. People don't like it for the Metang nose it gained? It should have been in the original design in the first place, given that it is fused Metang anyway.
^Actually, Rotom does get better... Its forms have a higher BST...
Darmanitan Zen Mode also gets a higher BST (even if it actually sucks in battle)...
So does Kyurem, although, like you said, they're fusions, they're supposed to be stronger... but that was Kyurem's purpose anyway... an empty shell that gets more power from its "brothers"...
I predict the same will happen with Zygarde... If its "secret power" (as mentioned in the dex) is not a Mega evo, then it will be a stronger form...
Darmanitan Zen Mode also gets a higher BST (even if it actually sucks in battle)...
So does Kyurem, although, like you said, they're fusions, they're supposed to be stronger... but that was Kyurem's purpose anyway... an empty shell that gets more power from its "brothers"...
I predict the same will happen with Zygarde... If its "secret power" (as mentioned in the dex) is not a Mega evo, then it will be a stronger form...
Metalizard said:
I mean, from a perspective of the Pokémon itself. The original form is what it is, it cant get any better through evolution. But by going inside an appliance, its power goes up because it draws power from the appliance as well.
^lol? How is it any different from stronger forms like Megas who, as you say, are not supposed to be taken as actual evolutions? Because they draw power from within themselves? If I recall correctly, officially, it is stated Mega evolution requires a strong bond with the pokémon's trainer, so it's not just hidden inner power...
Actually, what you just described about Rotom sounds just like the premise of Primal Reversion, which even though we don't know all the details yet, seems to be nothing more than glorified Mega Evolution...
Also, how can you say Rotom couldn't get any better through evolution? GF could very well made an evolution for Rotom instead of the forms... They do what the hell they want...
Actually, what you just described about Rotom sounds just like the premise of Primal Reversion, which even though we don't know all the details yet, seems to be nothing more than glorified Mega Evolution...
Also, how can you say Rotom couldn't get any better through evolution? GF could very well made an evolution for Rotom instead of the forms... They do what the hell they want...
It's entirely different from Megas. A Mega is a bigger, better form of the Pokémon. A form change is a different form of the Pokémon. Any Pokémon can potentially have a Mega form, but not every Pokémon can just get a form change out of the blue. I mean, I'd love to see vampire Swoobat, but that simply doesn't make sense.Metalizard said:
Rotom is the Pokémon embodiment of plasma energy (or something like that). On its own, it is in its most powerful state. It cannot evolve (that we know of), and really has no reason to. What would an evolved Rotom even look like?
No, Rotom is perfect as a Pokémon. That does not mean it has to stay in its current form. It gets inside electronics, takes them over (possessing them) and makes the appliance's powers its own (which is why it gains a special move with each form change and gains a BST boost).
I already stated before, but a form change does not necessarily make the Pokémon any better than what it already is, it simply changes the appearance, maybe stats and abilities, of certain Pokémon. In other words, its a different way to look to the same Pokémon.
A Mega Pokémon is proof that we know so much yet so little about the Pokémon world. Even Pokémon that have already evolved to reach "perfection" can go the extra mile and still get stronger. And yes, the power comes from the Pokémon reacting to its Mega Stone while in the midst of battle. Like an energy surge.
Megas are, however, the exact same Pokémon. Just like a form change in that sense, and not an evolution.
However, Megas are the hidden potential many Pokémon possess. To become the warrior they just weren't before (just look at Kangaskhan, or Mawile even).
Form changes are the potential those Pokémon possess. Rotom's niche is it can change forms. Landorus and co. change forms with a mirror (seriously, that alone should tell you that form changes are reflections of the Pokémon. Same... But different). Giratina changes forms in its own dimension. Ect.
With your last point, I just cant agree. In the games, you can go out, catch any Kangaskhan, give it a stone, and evolve it.
It may or may not require a "bond". If it did, I would have expected it to have something to do with the Amie or something.
As far as I am concerned, Mega evolution requires a Mega Stone, a Pokémon that matches said stone, and a Mega Ring/Item of your own to react with the stone in battle.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
We don't even know what Primal Evolution is, really. All we know is that Groudon and Kyogre were stronger when the Pokémon World was new. They had the power to create seas and continents for crying out loud. After a long battle with each other, they were injured, and had to rest. They had used up their power, and never could recover their full strength... Until ORAS. We still don't know how. But I do know it has nothing to do with Rotom.
I didn't say couldn't. I said can't.
As far as I know, I cannot evolve Rotom in Gen5 or Gen6, and certainly not Gen4. So it can't get better through evolution.
I'm all for a Rotom evo come Gen7/8. But it is highly unlikely we'll see one given the forms it has. In fact, its far more likely we'll see more Rotom forms before we see an evolution for it.
Keeper of Night said:
Ok, this actually makes sense...
But after all that you said, you say this:
Now, you're looking only at the technical side of the thing... In that case, I could also say, all that hidden potential thing they presented as the concept of Mega evolution, is just an excuse GF found to improve older pokémon due to the increasing power creep or give something new to already popular pokémon (like Garchomp... did it really need a Mega? Not really, but it is cool anyway...)
What I meant was...
you said this:
That is not very different from the official statement regarding Primal Reversion where the official site says Kyogre and Groudon draw power from the sea or land, respectively, to regain their original power... While Rotom wasn't any stronger before than it is now, it draws power from something to get stronger, which is what I find similar to Primal Reversion... which in turn, like I said, by watching one of the ORAS trailer, the animation for Primal Reversion is very similar to the one for Mega Evolving, hence why I think it is technically just a glorified Mega Evolution (But I know I may be wrong, it's just an assumption)...
Going back to Rotom, all this comes full circle to me in the sense that, whether it is a forme, a "fusion" (Kyurem), a Mega or a Primal, they're all just forms. Yes, they're the same pokémon, but they always look different than the regular pokémon, some more, some less.
And for me, whether it's a form or a Mega, I prefer those which still resemble the original but are different enough to be considered unique and not just the same pokémon with a few minor details added...
There is a difference between the potential a Pokémon has to Mega Evolve, and the requirements still necessary to do so.Metalizard said:
I'm not looking at this from a real-world perspective. GF can, as you said, do whatever they want.
However, a Pokémon that I now refer to as "complete" could easily change and gain an evolution. My logic applies to things like Qwilfish, Dunsparce, Dedenne, ect. All of which could gain an evo later.
That does not make me wrong. Six generations in, and these Pokémon have not yet needed to evolve. At this point, they cannot get any better.
Now, Megas are different. They prove that the Pokémon that Mega Evolves (lets say, Mawile) cannot get better through evolution, but it does have a hidden potential waiting to be brought out. It can evolve, with the proper stone, trainer, ect. bring out its true power.
Now, bringing out their true potential is very different from changing it, which is what form changes and evolutions do.
When Rotom enters an appliance, it possess that appliance and takes over its powers. Thus changing type, stats, and gaining a new move.
The land and sea are not appliances that Groudon and Kyogre are possessing. They are simply drawing power from their
Going back to Rotom, all this comes full circle to me in the sense that, whether it is a forme, a "fusion" (Kyurem), a Mega or a Primal, they're all just forms. Yes, they're the same pokémon, but they always look different than the regular pokémon, some more, some less.
And for me, whether it's a form or a Mega, I prefer those which still resemble the original but are different enough to be considered unique and not just the same pokémon with a few minor details added...
[/quote]
There is a difference between the potential a Pokémon has to Mega Evolve, and the requirements still necessary to do so.Metalizard said:
I'm not looking at this from a real-world perspective. GF can, as you said, do whatever they want.
However, a Pokémon that I now refer to as "complete" could easily change and gain an evolution. My logic applies to things like Qwilfish, Dunsparce, Dedenne, ect. All of which could gain an evo later.
That does not make me wrong. Six generations in, and these Pokémon have not yet needed to evolve. At this point, they cannot get any better.
Megas are different. They prove that the Pokémon that Mega Evolves (lets say, Mawile) cannot get better through evolution, but it does have a hidden potential waiting to be brought out. It can bring out this power with the proper stone, trainer, ect.
Now, bringing out their true potential is very different from changing it, which is what form changes and evolutions do.
When Rotom enters an appliance, it possess that appliance and takes over its powers. Thus changing type, stats, and gaining a new move.
The land and sea are not appliances that Groudon and Kyogre are possessing. They are simply drawing power from what they created when the earth was new. The power they had before was used to create the land/sea, so they are simply drawing that power back out.
That's pretty much what I'm point at.
The difference being that a form (forme, whatever) change is a different way to look at the same Pokémon, whereas a Mega is a perfected (or at least, better) form of the Pokémon.
Well, form changes can become more drastic because they are reimagined Pokémon, but the same. As I said, they just change the way you look at them.
Megas have to resemble the Pokémon more because they are exactly the same, just better. The Mega form of a Pokémon. Not the Therian, Origin, Wash/Heat/Mow/ect, Sandy/Trash/Plant, East/West, whatever form.
So mega Metagross is confirmed to have Tough Claws. It also gets a sharp increase in speed while getting a boost to its other stats "balancing" it out.