Finished Mafia XXXVIII: Battle for the Republic (Congratulations Darth Sidious!)

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Day 6 will end on Tuesday 3rd of December @10:30pm AEST.

Vote Count:

No Votes have been made!!

The Senate Order Absolutism is still in play, meaning unvoting is not allowed!
 
Sorry, I forgot to put a heads-up that I'll be dragged away to new years parties >_<

Here's the role.

Squirtle Squad said:
Obi-Wan Kenobi

Alignment: Republic (Jedi)

Master of Anakin Skywalker and one of the most prolific generals of the Republic. You are one of the most loved Jedi and well respected, earning you a spot on Mace Windu's team of Jedi to bring the Separatists down.

Passive Ability: Revered General
With a rank of General in the Clone Army, you have proven yourself as the most successful general, tactician and warrior the Republic has seen. Throughout the game you will have a Day Vote of 2.

Active Ability: Force Blocked
Your Force powers have been growing ever stronger since the death of your Master Qui-Gon. Every Night you may PM me a player name. That player's Active Abilities will be blocked during that Night Period.

Win Condition: All anti-Republic aligned players are eliminated.
Click to expand...

Usage: (didn't mention the night number when used and the PM/conversations was messy as a whole. I've asked Squirtle Squad to break it down properly/clarify for me)
PikaMasterJesi
scattered mind
NinjaPenguin

I'm guessing he forgot to submit on some nights... Since he was busy/inactive I suppose.

Anyway, that voting list by double o squirtle is nice, and I made a few additions to my reads list based on it.

Reads:
bbninjas - neutral leaning potentially scummy - He was pretty neutral/townie to me at the first couple of days, bar that weird "slip" of being a Senator. He's active and contributing to the discussion a lot, but that voting list has me a little suspicious of him. Kinda WIFOM but if he is a Senator, I find it weird that scum haven't killed him yet after several days. It's probable that he's town and scum are holding off on killing him to go after other players first. But if gambits are at work here, it might be a town gambit to attract the scum kill. Or, the "slip" was a scum gambit to gain town credits/status. I know it's a weird thing to focus on, but it's just really odd to me. It was a very newbie, strange "slip" for bb to make, since I know he's an experienced player. If he's scum, he's playing town like a fiddle again like in PMJ's game lol
Vracken: Neutral - I haven't played a game with him yet so I'm still figuring out his playstyle. It has a newbie feel to it, so I'll just be watching out for his posts.
simsands: scummy - Okay, I won't deny there's likely some OMGUS in here because he's been pushing Robin/me very hard, but I think town simsands is more logical and calm than he is acting in this game. That constant push on a particular player even with evidence of a much better lynch option is something scum tend to do (like bb was in my game), and I see several other players already taking notice. Aside from D1 RVS, he has only voted for Robin, most tellingly on a day scum flipped, which could be an attempt to divert attention away from his scumbuddy, and then on the Jesi lynch that reading back was a highly probable scum lynch from the slips.
NinjaPenguin: Slightly scummy but leaning town - I figure Robin thought you were scummy so he blocked you, but your recent posts have been more town-y to me.
Lord o da rings/double o squirtle: Neutral/Town - Lord o da rings didn't really stand out or take my notice, but dos has been really active and contributing and scumhunting with whatever method he could, I think he's very likely town.
Robin Aisaga/me - Town: Yup.
scattered mind: possibly scummy - His posts are neutral but the voting patterns give a point of suspicion. Wouldn't mind looking into him more and re-reading his posts.
Scorched Feathers/GM Draclord - Scummy/neutral: I know SF's posts tend to give scummy vibes in both alignments, but you never know. GM Drac is unknown for now, as a sub, need more posts from him too.
 
Obi-Wan Kenobi is a very central part of the canon at the time period this game seems to be taking place, so I think it's unlikely this is a safe-claim. Also, if Reinforce is scum and providing they actually do have a blocking Ability, then this would be the second blocking role that scum would have, which I think is even more unlikely as quaking's role was a passive block. It's still possibly a safe-claim, but it's unlikely enough for me to not want to lynch Robin/Reinforce this day phase, considering how I'm becoming more and more uncertain that they will flip scum.

Reinforce said:
bbninjas - neutral leaning potentially scummy - He was pretty neutral/townie to me at the first couple of days, bar that weird "slip" of being a Senator. He's active and contributing to the discussion a lot, but that voting list has me a little suspicious of him.
Click to expand...
Please explain why that voting list is scummy... >.>

Kinda WIFOM but if he is a Senator, I find it weird that scum haven't killed him yet after several days. It's probable that he's town and scum are holding off on killing him to go after other players first. But if gambits are at work here, it might be a town gambit to attract the scum kill. Or, the "slip" was a scum gambit to gain town credits/status. I know it's a weird thing to focus on, but it's just really odd to me. It was a very newbie, strange "slip" for bb to make, since I know he's an experienced player. If he's scum, he's playing town like a fiddle again like in PMJ's game lol
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This is completely fair, since if I was you, I'd be thinking the same thing! The truth is that I didn't realise that scum needed to kill off all the Senators until after I posted, when I went back to check the OP. But that's the response you'd expect from both town and scum. xD

Reinforce's logical reads are also making me lean towards town, since they don't really feel forced. I think that's also largely because their reads are similar to mine, and list a lot of the same reasons, which I guess I wouldn't expect from a scum who have only just subbed in. I also think that the fact that they haven't listed anyone as "very town" a pretty good town-tell, because I also think that there isn't anyone alive who can be said to be "very town". (Scum would easily get this mind-set because they know who are town.) The thing I am cautious of is that aside from me and simsands, their points do echo a bit, but there's also not much else to say about a most of everyone else. >~>

So, @simsands, please claim!
 
bbninjas said:
Nope.
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Not at all? You don't think a person has to have done something scummy for them to ping your scumdar?

scattered mind said:
You two think that simsands is more likely towny because of the case he made and his confidence on it, but you neglect the main point, which is why would he not try to prove his case when there is another case being more supported by others? I'll be still waiting for his answer.
Click to expand...

You will have to keep on waiting, because I don't have an answer to your question. There was no particular reason why I didn't post the quotes before I did. No secret objective. No ulterior motives. I saw Jesi flip town and realized that I needed to push harder for who my top scum read was. Although with the following quote, I'm not so sure about that anymore.

bbninjas said:
This is especially suspicious because they were pushing for town instead of the scum wagon Day 4.
Click to expand...

Did you, by any chance, forget that Robin/Reinforce has yet to flip? You letting us know that he's town is actually pretty helpful.
 
bbninjas said:
So, @simsands, please claim!
Click to expand...

No, I don't particularly feel like claiming, with the only one expressing an interest in my claim being pretty scummy himself. I would prefer to keep my being Jedi or Senator to myself as long as possible. If other players start asking for it, I might give some hints.
 
bbninjas said:
Obi-Wan Kenobi is a very central part of the canon at the time period this game seems to be taking place, so I think it's unlikely this is a safe-claim.
Click to expand...
This logic is ridiculously flimsy, and you know that.
bbninjas said:
So, @simsands, please claim!
Click to expand...
Stop trying to force unnecessary claims.

##VOTE: bbninjas
You've backpedaled, played completely against your meta, committed some of your previous scumtells, attempted to force unnecessary claims, and used strange logic that you lynch people for using when you are town. I'm conflicted on RF/simsands, so I consider you the better lynch. I'll get quotes later.
 
Here are some posts I could find:
bbninjas said:
Ugh, I'm not too sure right now. I'm not going to go with my gut and continue voting for rainy; instead I'm going to trust the judgement of PP on this one. ##UNVOTE; ##VOTE: TSM.
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bb always says to stick to your convictions, but he voted for TSM even though he though Rainy was more scummy. This looks like a play to get towncred when TSM flips scum.
bbninjas said:
"I don't think Rainy should be lynched today, but I'm going to vote for his lynch to today."
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This is a very direct word twist. Jesi said she wanted more discussion in the day.

bbninjas said:
And anyone that jumps all over my scumdar is scummy.
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This directly contradicts what you said right here (in response to post #702):
bbninjas said:
Nope.
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If anything jumping on his scumdar is scummy, how is the point against DoS not a scumtell?

In addition, Quaking tries to get the lynch off of bb here:
quakingpunch73 said:
So, you want bb lynched but agree with the points he's brought up?
Click to expand...
quakingpunch73 said:
Also, why do you want bb lynched in the first place other than the fact that he wants you lynched?
Click to expand...

Professor P. also made some good points here, which are worth looking at:
Professor Palutena said:
FOS on bbninjas here because I can only recall him being this insistent on a lynch candidate when he's scum. It's too different for me and I don't like it.

Also, all lynches give info. But we don't lynch for info - that's anti-town play. We shouldn't lynch a player because they give us the most info; we should lynch them because we think they're scum. You haven't provided anything that suggests rainy is scum.

And how would rainy's lynch provide info on Jesi and TSM? They haven't been associated with him and have no connection to him, so how would we get info off of them. The only player that could be associated with rainy is myself, as I suppose my defense of rainy could be seen as buddying. A scum rainy flip would, naturally, turn heads towards myself given my actions today.
Click to expand...
 
simsands said:
Not at all? You don't think a person has to have done something scummy for them to ping your scumdar?
Click to expand...
*Inherently scummy; yes.

Did you, by any chance, forget that Robin/Reinforce has yet to flip? You letting us know that he's town is actually pretty helpful.
Click to expand...
That is obviously an assumption?

simsands said:
No, I don't particularly feel like claiming, with the only one expressing an interest in my claim being pretty scummy himself. I would prefer to keep my being Jedi or Senator to myself as long as possible. If other players start asking for it, I might give some hints.
Click to expand...
Okay. I think you're more likely scum than Reinforce and I'm not going to be around to vote later, so you have my vote now. ##VOTE: simsands

NinjaPenguin said:
This logic is ridiculously flimsy, and you know that.
Click to expand...
No it isn't. It's ridiculously flimsy on its own, but it's not on its own.

Stop trying to force unnecessary claims.
Click to expand...
These claims are not unnecessary.

##VOTE: bbninjas
You've backpedaled, played completely against your meta, committed some of your previous scumtells, attempted to force unnecessary claims, and used strange logic that you lynch people for using when you are town. I'm conflicted on RF/simsands, so I consider you the better lynch. I'll get quotes later.
Click to expand...
I do not think I've backpedalled, since when was I playing completely against my meta, I don't even know what this next one means, the claims are not unnecessary, huh?

NinjaPenguin said:
Here are some posts I could find:

bb always says to stick to your convictions, but he voted for TSM even though he though Rainy was more scummy. This looks like a play to get towncred when TSM flips scum.
Click to expand...
Except TSM didn't flip scum, so I don't know how I'm trying to get towncred for doing this. I'm also logically not going to stick to my convictions when I'm not certain on my convictions.

This is a very direct word twist. Jesi said she wanted more discussion in the day.
Click to expand...
Hmm, she could have meant that. I think you can see how I interpreted it the way I did considering how she says "don't want to lynch rainy just yet", but goes ahead to lynch rainy. Because she was voting rainy, I was assuming "not this Day" instead of "we need to discuss more before lynching rainy".

This directly contradicts what you said right here (in response to post #702):
Click to expand...
Sorry, how?

If anything jumping on his scumdar is scummy, how is the point against DoS not a scumtell?
Click to expand...
I said "jumping around". For someone saying that I'm twisting words, your are being quite hypocritical.

In addition, Quaking tries to get the lynch off of bb here:
Click to expand...
This is one of the only legit points you have brought up.

Professor P. also made some good points here, which are worth looking at:
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Look to my defense to him then. We have different perspectives on what is anti-town, and is perhaps why we consistently find each other scum even when we are both town.

You've brought this case up awfully late, NP, and I'm not going to be around for most of the rest of the day to respond to any follow ups because of a family trip.
 
bbninjas said:
Except TSM didn't flip scum, so I don't know how I'm trying to get towncred for doing this. I'm also logically not going to stick to my convictions when I'm not certain on my convictions.
Click to expand...
You can get towncred by being able to say "I just trusted Prof. P."
bbninjas said:
I said "jumping around".
Click to expand...
I read "around" and "on" as meaning the exact same things. What would you consider the difference?
bbninjas said:
It's ridiculously flimsy on its own, but it's not on its own.
Click to expand...
It shouldn't even be used as an argument, and makes your defense of RF look more like desperate buddying than a townie.
 
##VOTE:simsands

Nice way to ignore my real point (by dumbtelling I guess)

The case on bb is mainly over a contradiction that is not a contradiction at all... The quaking point is interesting though. I think simsands' flip can shed further light on bb's case since right now this is the only point I agree about. Claiming is also very helpful for days like this where you cannot unvote, and need to choose wisely.
 
If bb flips scum, lynch scattered. I have no idea what his "real point" was if it's not what simsands defended against, and there were many points on bb didn't acknowledge. The case on simsands is incredibly weak when compared to the case on RF, and is pretty obviously led by scum.
If simsands flips town, lynch scattered or bb, not RF "because simsands made a case on him." This town is apathetic if they don't realize that will give scum an easy endgame.
 
Wonderful... With that vote by DoS, it looks like I'll have to coax some inactives out of hiding.
@simsands You need to vote bb, and not RF. There is no chance you survive if that happens.
I'll see if I can improve the case on bb by the end of the day.
 
NinjaPenguin said:
There is no chance you survive if that happens.
Click to expand...
To clarify, if you vote RF, there is no chance he gets lynched unless he votes himself, which looks very unlikely.

@GM DracLord @Reinforce Please ask me to clarify any part of the case before you lynch simsands. It's pretty obvious that case is gaining steam for no reason (the case on bb at least has more grounding than that).
 
simsands said:
I want to point out that what you brought up in the post with quotes from bb are kind of weak, but the summary of bb's scummy points that you posted before that holds up.
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Those posts were what I could find in the first couple of days. He wasn't really that scummy then (the things I mention in the post above are much more scummy, but they happened recently so I figured people would remember what I had said about them in separate posts).
 
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