XY Learnable moves revision

[Pokequaza]

And tail glow is "firefly light" in japanese, and phione (which is no firefly) learns it, so your argument is invalid (I always wanted to say that).

No, my argument still stands, just because some moves don't make sense, doesn't mean you can unleash the illogicality and nebulosity on every move. Just be glad there is at least some thought behind some of the game mechanics.

And if dancing is a theme for lilligant, which (not really) explains her being able to learn quiver dance, why meloetta (the singing/dancing pokemon) does not learn it? or dragon dance, for that matter? or petal dance, or swords dance? they fit meloetta a lot better than they do lilligant.

That would be your opinion. But I want you to remind that Meloetta is known as the ''melody Pokémon'', this and her Pokédex entries only refer to her singing skills. There is no mention of dancing.

 

[Drohn]

I guess what moves benefit pokemon in competitive battles is a criteria to assign moves, based in what we know about them, as is bringing attention to combinations with moves the pokemon has currently to support the suggested moves or the stats those pokemon have to take advantage of the moves, right?

No. You must support why the Pokémon should be able to use an attack with other reasoning (think of Design, Pokedex entries, etc.). Saying it would be good competitively is irrelevant. We could then just come up with ridiculous move sets for a Pokémon that has the Base Stats we want.

 

[leecario]

And tail glow is "firefly light" in japanese, and phione (which is no firefly) learns it, so your argument is invalid (I always wanted to say that).

No, my argument still stands, just because some moves don't make sense, doesn't mean you can unleash the illogicality and nebulosity on every move. Just be glad there is at least some thought behind some of the game mechanics.

And if dancing is a theme for lilligant, which (not really) explains her being able to learn quiver dance, why meloetta (the singing/dancing pokemon) does not learn it? or dragon dance, for that matter? or petal dance, or swords dance? they fit meloetta a lot better than they do lilligant.

That would be your opinion. But I want you to remind that Meloetta is known as the ''melody Pokémon'', this and her Pokédex entries only refer to her singing skills. There is no mention of dancing.

Other than one of its forms being called the pirouette form

 

[professorlight]

And tail glow is "firefly light" in japanese, and phione (which is no firefly) learns it, so your argument is invalid (I always wanted to say that).

No, my argument still stands, just because some moves don't make sense, doesn't mean you can unleash the illogicality and nebulosity on every move. Just be glad there is at least some thought behind some of the game mechanics.

The argument thing was a joke, but I think tail glow and quiver dance are the same case, and I don't think I've unleashed the "illogicality and nebulosity" just by pointing out that since a pokemon that is not a firefly learns "firefly light" and a pokemon that is not a butterfly learns "butterfly dance" other pokemon could get access to them.
I sure am glad there is thought behind the game mechanics, If i didn't, I wouln't be here talking with you, sweetie.

And if dancing is a theme for lilligant, which (not really) explains her being able to learn quiver dance, why meloetta (the singing/dancing pokemon) does not learn it? or dragon dance, for that matter? or petal dance, or swords dance? they fit meloetta a lot better than they do lilligant.

That would be your opinion. But I want you to remind that Meloetta is known as the ''melody Pokémon'', this and her Pokédex entries only refer to her singing skills. There is no mention of dancing.

She is the "melody" pokemon because her main form is her aria forme, and species mean jack s***: gardevoir is the "embrace" pokemon, and I've never seen what gardevoir has to do with embracing. So meloetta is the melody pokemon except for her pirouette (from ballet, if I'm not mistaken) forme that is part fighting and has a skirt that looks like a tutu, and it's awesome. Also the fact that meloetta learns acrobatics, teeter dance, close combat and u-turn, moves that require agility and nimbleness (traits of a dancer) that wouldn't make much sense if there were not a pirouette forme. Also remember that relic song and her form changing capabilities are something of a (badly kept) secret, never directly adressed in the game, not in her pokedex entry, not in relic song's description, not even when she learns the damn move (in BW, in BW2 she transforms in the overworld, but no one seems to take notice of that).
So, oficially this time:

MELOETTA.
QUIVER DANCE. DRAGON DANCE. SWORDS DANCE. PETAL DANCE. FEATHERDANCE? FIERY DANCE just kidding
F*** YES.

I think she should learn petal dance at fifty-ish and the boosts all at the same level, forty-ish, so you get to choose one and adapt her moveset to a single strategy from that point on: a physical meloetta? swords dance/dragon dance (more power vs better speed). A special meloetta? quiver dance, petal dance, defensive meloetta? quiver dance/featherdance (this is stupid, I think this is the only dance meloetta shouldn't have, but I'm putting it in anyway) mixed meloetta? quiver dance/dragon dance. high coverage? petal dance, acrobatics, close combat, psychic, relic song, thunder, stone edge, etc.
I hope this oversight is corrected in the 6th gen.
F*** (I felt I owed you guys some language)

 

[Phoenix29]

I would love that Hydreigon gets Nasty Plot...also, i would like that Salamence could learn Dragon Dance by leveling up.

 

[Drohn]

I also feel like more Pokémon should be able to learn Nasty Plot. Sword Dance is a TM, and I think Nasty Plot should be too. A lot Pokémon should be able to learn that move in my opinion.

Also I feel like Venusaur should be able to learn Power Whip by level up. It was one of the first Pokémon to use vine whipping based attacks.

Also, Ninetales has been known to have psychic powers, I think it would make sense for it to learn Psychic.

 

[Rusty Sticks]

Bronzong can't learn Heal Bell.

 

[Metalizard]

First of all, it's Manaphy which learns Tail Glow, not Phione. Phione doesn't learn it at all.

Second. Quiver Dance, like someone said, is Butterfly Dance in japan. It's not for any bug. It's specifically for butterflies and moths. Lilligant learns it too. Why? Like someone above said, Lilligant has dance as a theme for it. Meloetta's Aria forme is more prominent than its Pirouette forme btw. Don't agree? I got another example: Why does Lucario learn Dragon Pulse? Lucario is associated with the Aura concept, so it learns everything with Pulse (Hadou in japan) in its name.

Also, do you wanna know why Arcanine learns Dragon-type moves? Arcanine is based on the Shisa. And the Shisa legend basically says something like this: A village was being terrorized by a sea dragon and some guy with a shisa-dog necklace faced the monster by holding the necklace high. Then, a giant roar was heard and a giant boulder fell from the sky and smashed the dragon's tail and it died. So, Arcanine learns Dragon-type moves (even Dragon Pulse) as a reference to this legend. They gave it dragon-type moves so it can hit Dragon-type pokémon for super-effective damage and defeat them.

Anyway, most of the movepool issues I have a problem with have already been mentioned, specially the Tao Trio not being able to learn Earthquake, which really pisses me off.

But I remembered one case: Aggron is Steel/Rock but doesn't learn any Rock-type moves by level-up. They gotta change that (as in, put Head Smash in its level-up learnset!).

 

[Zapydos2]

Gyarados needs to learn Fly!

Okay, kidding aside. What bothers me is that Tropius can't learn Dragon Dance AND Leaf Blade together due to breeding conflicts. It's kind of silly and would make Tropius awesome, maybe a bit too awesome. =P

I always wondered why Umbreon could learn Bite but not Crunch? It's a decent dark move.

And is it just me, or is Outrage been overused as a Move Tutor attack in BW2? I thought something was weird when it was added to a bunch of Pokemon's move pool.

 

[Pokequaza]

I always wondered why Umbreon could learn Bite but not Crunch? It's a decent dark move.

Umbreon only gets Bite through Eevee, it isn't even ''its own'' move, Crunch usually requires a pretty big set of teeth; Feraligatr-size.

 

[Ohman177]

Gyarados needs to learn Fly!

Okay, kidding aside. What bothers me is that Tropius can't learn Dragon Dance AND Leaf Blade together due to breeding conflicts. It's kind of silly and would make Tropius awesome, maybe a bit too awesome. =P

What kind of conflicts?

 

[Zapydos2]

What kind of conflicts?

It doesn't have a parent that can learn Dragon Dance AND Leaf Blade.

 

[Mitja]

Gyarados needs to learn Fly!

Okay, kidding aside. What bothers me is that Tropius can't learn Dragon Dance AND Leaf Blade together due to breeding conflicts. It's kind of silly and would make Tropius awesome, maybe a bit too awesome. =P

What kind of conflicts?

You cannot breed both at the same time onto it.

But this might change whenever a new pokemon is introduced that learns one and can be bred the other I believe.
For example if Sceptile got Dragon Dance as an egg-move Tropius could inherit both from it.

 

[professorlight]

I needed to add something:

MAREEP. FLAAFFY. AMPHAROS. MEGAAMPHAROS B****ES!
TAIL GLOW. FLASH M********G CANNON
SHIT.

I know tail glow's japanese name is "firefly light", but WHY? WHY IN THE FLIPPIN' F*** CAN'T THEY LEARN IT? phione manaphy learns it, and it's not a firefly, it's a marine creature with bioluminiscence, so why can't the light giving sheep pokemon shine like one of the few real world animals that can give light? they even learn signal beam, formerly volbeat's other signature move (and why exactly volbeat had not one, but TWO signature moves? what's soooo special about him?).
And giving them a unique sp. attack double triple (triple! f***** triple! this move is awesome!) boost can make them competitively viable, as a bonus (point negated by the blonde awesomeness that is... *gitar riff* MEGAAMPHAROS B****ES!).
Also, flash cannon is literally the pokemon focusing all the light it is capable of reflecting/refracting (or creating) in a single point, It actually should be retyped as fire. WE NEED A LASER MOVE. NOW. frickin' lasers, man, frickin' lasers.
Here's hoping that, as megaampharos gets dragon pulse, she also gets at least tail glow.

First of all, it's Manaphy which learns Tail Glow, not Phione. Phione doesn't learn it at all.

My mistake, I stand corrected. I always confuse those two. It's interesting, though, that tail glow is the only difference between those two, moves-wise.

Second. Quiver Dance, like someone said, is Butterfly Dance in japan. It's not for any bug. It's specifically for butterflies and moths. Lilligant learns it too. Why? Like someone above said, Lilligant has dance as a theme for it. Meloetta's Aria forme is more prominent than its Pirouette forme btw. Don't agree? I got another example: Why does Lucario learn Dragon Pulse? Lucario is associated with the Aura concept, so it learns everything with Pulse (Hadou in japan) in its name.

Is dancing a primary theme for lilligant? she seems to be based on a garland and a southern belle, I don't see dancing related to any of those things. Meloetta's aria forme is her primary form, true, but that doesn't make it any more relevant, she can change forms at will, there are entire movesets based on keeping meloetta as pirouette form, and, unlike lilligant, meloetta P is directly inspired in dancing, ergo, the dancing moves make perfect sense, even though they would leave her natural movepool a little crowded.
I have no objections to the lucario example, but the fact that the pulses are hadou in japanese doesn't prevent other pokemon with no relation to hadou from using them, doesn't it?

Also, do you wanna know why Arcanine learns Dragon-type moves? Arcanine is based on the Shisa. And the Shisa legend basically says something like this: A village was being terrorized by a sea dragon and some guy with a shisa-dog necklace faced the monster by holding the necklace high. Then, a giant roar was heard and a giant boulder fell from the sky and smashed the dragon's tail and it died. So, Arcanine learns Dragon-type moves (even Dragon Pulse) as a reference to this legend. They gave it dragon-type moves so it can hit Dragon-type pokémon for super-effective damage and defeat them.

I never mentioned arcanine... actually, I didn't even know arcanine learned outrage and dragon pulse by move tutor, I always thought of arcanine as one of the few non-dragon, non-dinosaur pokemon for which outrage would make sense; interesting story, anyway.

Anyway, most of the movepool issues I have a problem with have already been mentioned, specially the Tao Trio not being able to learn Earthquake, which really pisses me off.

But I remembered one case: Aggron is Steel/Rock but doesn't learn any Rock-type moves by level-up. They gotta change that (as in, put Head Smash in its level-up learnset!).

You mean aggron DOESN'T have head smash? *checks* dammit GF, you are drunk. go to the corner and don't return until you learn how to pokemon!

 

[WanderingWolf]

I always wondered why Umbreon could learn Bite but not Crunch? It's a decent dark move.

Umbreon only gets Bite through Eevee, it isn't even ''its own'' move, Crunch usually requires a pretty big set of teeth; Feraligatr-size.

Even though a Floatzel can learn it... And its a weasel. A weasel. Weasels don't have big teeth! They're weasels! Umbreon is a mythical beast... But a weasel can learn it.
#logic

 

[Metalizard]

Is dancing a primary theme for lilligant? she seems to be based on a garland and a southern belle, I don't see dancing related to any of those things. Meloetta's aria forme is her primary form, true, but that doesn't make it any more relevant, she can change forms at will, there are entire movesets based on keeping meloetta as pirouette form, and, unlike lilligant, meloetta P is directly inspired in dancing, ergo, the dancing moves make perfect sense, even though they would leave her natural movepool a little crowded.
I have no objections to the lucario example, but the fact that the pulses are hadou in japanese doesn't prevent other pokemon with no relation to hadou from using them, doesn't it?

The main reason I say Aria Forme is Meloetta's more prominent forme is because the Pirouette Forme is not available outside of battle... That reduces its relevance to me by a lot...

As for Lucario and the Hadou moves, actually, all pokémon are related to the Aura concept, because all pokémon have an aura. Lucario is special because it can sense it and manipulate it naturally.
My point was, while some pokémon learn one or sometimes two of those moves, they learn them because of their type or biology/basis, it's inherent to them (like dark or ghost pokémon learning Dark Pulse and dragon-type or other reptile pokémon learning Dragon Pulse). Lucario, on the other hand, learns all of those moves for the reason I just said. That's its theme/concept. I used Lucario's example for comparison with Lilligant.

I never mentioned arcanine... actually, I didn't even know arcanine learned outrage and dragon pulse by move tutor, I always thought of arcanine as one of the few non-dragon, non-dinosaur pokemon for which outrage would make sense; interesting story, anyway.

I know. I just added it because I thought it was interesting trivia and was related to the discussion ...

 

[King Xerneas]

Also, Ninetales has been known to have psychic powers, I think it would make sense for it to learn Psychic.

I thought Ninetails could already learn psychic o_o.....

 

[professorlight]

Is dancing a primary theme for lilligant? she seems to be based on a garland and a southern belle, I don't see dancing related to any of those things. Meloetta's aria forme is her primary form, true, but that doesn't make it any more relevant, she can change forms at will, there are entire movesets based on keeping meloetta as pirouette form, and, unlike lilligant, meloetta P is directly inspired in dancing, ergo, the dancing moves make perfect sense, even though they would leave her natural movepool a little crowded.
I have no objections to the lucario example, but the fact that the pulses are hadou in japanese doesn't prevent other pokemon with no relation to hadou from using them, doesn't it?

The main reason I say Aria Forme is Meloetta's more prominent forme is because the Pirouette Forme is not available outside of battle... That reduces its relevance to me by a lot...

As for Lucario and the Hadou moves, actually, all pokémon are related to the Aura concept, because all pokémon have an aura. Lucario is special because it can sense it and manipulate it naturally.
My point was, while some pokémon learn one or sometimes two of those moves, they learn them because of their type or biology/basis, it's inherent to them (like dark or ghost pokémon learning Dark Pulse and dragon-type or other reptile pokémon learning Dragon Pulse). Lucario, on the other hand, learns all of those moves for the reason I just said. That's its theme/concept. I used Lucario's example for comparison with Lilligant.

I never mentioned arcanine... actually, I didn't even know arcanine learned outrage and dragon pulse by move tutor, I always thought of arcanine as one of the few non-dragon, non-dinosaur pokemon for which outrage would make sense; interesting story, anyway.

I know. I just added it because I thought it was interesting trivia and was related to the discussion ...

As I see it, meloetta only being able to change form in battle is a purely gameplay-based limitation (in the same way it will be with megaevolutions) Meloetta is basically a triple-typed pokemon, proficient in sp.att, speed, attack and sp. defense, so GF has to include something to slow her down... in this case, forcing her to start every time as her aria form and having to attack in order to change (look at darmanitan, the zen forme requirements are also with that intention). So, if you were to have a meloetta sing outside of battle, she would change just fine, and be able to change back whenever she pleases. If that doesn't explain my point, think about this: what would be different if meloetta's starting form were the pirouette forme? both forms are equal, the fact that aria is the primary one is merely incidental, she has to start with one of them after all; right?.

Humans have aura too, are they also able to use "human pulse"?
Your argument says that lucario can learn all pulse moves because that's his concept/design.
My argument is that meloetta can learn all dance moves because that's (half) her concept/design.
So, our arguments are the same. How do the dance moves (many) apply to lilligant but not meloetta? meloetta is much more related to dancing than lilligant; if lilligant didn't learn teeter dance, petal dance, quiver dance and entrainment (as petilil) would you say "how weird is that lilligant doesn't learn any dancing moves?" but I'm pretty sure that if lucario didn't learn any hadou moves, everybody in japan would be collectively asking "what the f***, gamefreak?"

So I'll be the first to say that for meloetta: "what the f***, gamefreak?" what the f*** indeed.