Ideas for dusknoir and the rise of spread decks!

The Pikachu Mafia

The Pikachu Mafia

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So here I am, sitting down at my pc, checking up every now and then on pokemon.com for worlds info. All in all I'm pretty bored so I'm going to post an idea that I've been toying around with for several weeks now. I never had too much interest in the BW-DRX format with so little draw support options and the card pool being so limited I've found it very hard to build consistent decks. So when we got all the scans for Freeze Bolt/Cold Flare I was all over them and this one especially stood out for those of you who don't know what he does, here's a translation:

Dusknoir – Psychic – HP130
Stage 2 – Evolves from Dusclops

Ability: Dark Hand
As often as you like during your turn, you may move 1 damage counter on 1 of your opponent’s Pokemon to another one of his or her Pokemon.

[P][C][C][C] Shadow Punch: 60 damage. This attack isn’t affected by Resistance.

Weakness: Darkness (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 3

so as you can see I would want to use him for his ability, I would use an attacker (preferably basic) that could load alot of damage onto a pokemon then use my "reverse Reuniclus" to move around the damage and take cheap ko's without having to catcher pokemon up! However I came across a problem, what attacker would I put him with? I tried zekrom, but he was too inconsistent without eels, While other attackers like terrakion were just too slow for the damaged they were going to provide. About a week ago it finally hit me, spread pokemon. They can hit for high amounts of damage for a relatively low cost, and I just just rearrange the damage to ko whatever I like! It would also protect me from the opponent using max potion and thus resetting my damage output. I found two spread pokemon that I thought would go very nicely with Dusknoir, they're Kyurem NVI and Landrus EX. Here's what landorus does:

Landorus-EX – Fighting – HP180
Basic Pokemon

[F] Hammer Head: 30 damage. Choose one of the opponent’s Benched Pokemon. This attack does 30 damage to it.
[F][F][C] Earth Judgment: 80+ damage. You may discard all Fighting Energy attached to Landorus-EX. If you do, this attack does 70 more damage.

Weakness: Water (x2)
Resistance: Lightning (-20)
Retreat: 3

so there are two decks I came up with (the lists are so horrible for lack of testing that I wont post them) the first is Dusknoir/Landorus where the point is to just start spamming a landorus spread and/or his second attack if it comes to that, then bye turn 3 have myself a dusknoir ko'ing whatever I please with his ability. The main reason I picked him was because of it's typing, which will help alot against darkrai, one of dusknoir's weak points.

The other deck I'm working on (and it's looking more consistent than the first one right now...) is dusknoir/Kyurem at which case you try and get kyurem going as fast as possible with dusknoir getting out the same turn I use glaciate. With kyurem's ability to hit for up to 180 damage in a single attack combined, it's too good to pass up. this deck wont start attacking with kyurem until T3 most of the time so that frees up a T1 emolga which can be really helpful in a pinch.

I might post lists for these decks later but it is a little early for that and right now I'd just like to keep things in speculation right now, so what do you think about Dusknoir? Do you think it's viable? all thoughts are welcome :)
 
I never even thought of Dusknoir Lando EX (Or just normal Lando but both would work.)
Lets see which would be better.
T1 for Lando EX 30 and 30
T2 for Lando EX 30 and 30
T3 for Lando EX 30 and 30
T4 for Lando EX 30 and 30
So Lando is doing: 240 damage, technically with Duskoir. It can survive a lot longer too.

T1 for Kyurem: Attach
T2 for Kyurem: Attach
T3 for Kyurem: Glaciate or gets Kod. I they have a full bench 180, if less 150, 120, 90, 60, or 30.
T4 for Kyurem: KOd.
This is assuming you don't play Blastoise, ether (which sux), and you get an energy, and they get a slow start too. Of course you can play disruption but against most decks that wouldn't work.

Lando has an unbearable weakness against Keldeo in particular so I'm not sure. 1 very bad matchup or a slow deck. hmmmmm.
Even though Kyurem dishes out lots more damage later, Lando is WAY more consistent, can donk, lives longer, and has an attack that can clean up an EX. Personally, Lando seems a lot better, even though Blastoise Keldeo will be popular. I guess all you can hope for is to be faster than them...
 
kyurem could be paired with eviolite to get multiple glaciates off before dying, or exp. share to stream kyurem more effectively (sort of, but not entirely like mono-kyurem back at the end of HS-NXD) also landorus can be paired with mewtwo to help against keldeo.... I like landorus alot because of the more consistent damage output for 1 energy, and I like kyurem because even though he's more situational when he works, it's amazing...
 
Even if you attach Eviolite, he's getting 2 shotted. T2 Garchomp just wrecks you, especially if they have 2 Altarias in play. Thats not that hard to get. Mewtwo could help, but Keldeo won't have a bizarre amount of energies on it because it doesn't need that much to KO Lando EX. By T4, you will need at least 1 Kyurem with 3 and 1 with 1 energy.
I have an idea!
4 Kyurem
1 Mewtwo EX

3 RR
4 Pokedex
4 Juniper
4 Catcher
4 N
4 EXP share
2 Revive
4 Ether
2 Eviolite

20 Water
4 DCE
:p jk
 
lol, well feel free to find better partners for dusknoir :p maybe shaymin EX and prism could be played with Landorus (hits keldeo for weakness, and only 1 Lando has to go down before I can play shaymin)

I'll probably go with the lando version kyurem is a nice idea, but you're right it's kinda slow even for BW-on....
 
Problem with Flygon Dusknoir is that it.....stinks. It can't hold up against Garchomp or Garbodor. If they KO Dusknoir, you can't win. Its a good on paper deck, but it doesn't have the ability to spread as quickly or as much as these can. Plus, you have to set up consistent Stage 2s. You'll need 4 switch to get Dusknoir out of the active, and Hydreigon OHKOs all the pokemon in the deck.
 
Roguechomp, I love how you completely ignore Outrage. If t2 a Garchomp hits Kyurem, it'll either take huge amounts of damage or get OHKOed outright. In addition, you act like the Kyurem player is going to go second every single game and the Landorus player is going first every single game. 130 hp is a lot. With Eviolite, its a very bulky Pokemon. Landorus EX has 40 less hp per prize given AND a worse weakness, and a way worse damage output. Whoopdie do Landorus is hitting for 60 damage a turn. That's barely even a KO every two turns, meanwhile all the opponent has to do is hit 90 damage a turn to get a prize per turn against Lando, while they need 90 per turn just to 2HKO Kyurem, while often getting OHKOed or worse back. Your point is so illogical and biased its not even funny.
 
Well SORRY.

130 hp isn't very much these days, even with Eviolite. If they Outrage my Garchomp I KO them next Turn. Then what? They supposedly get another Kyurem right after that one dies.
Also, nobody said Lando couldn't abuse Eviolite. So now it takes 3 Turns for them to KO you while you are spreading and taking prizes with Lando with what your saying. If Kyurem does go first its still slower. Sure Potion and Eviolite are great cards to run to keep him in longer, but Kyurem isn't consistent enough. Unless you run Blastoise which would ruin the deck even more.
 
I got it....

4 Kyurem, 4 exp. share, 3 switch, 3 emolga, 3 energy switch, 3 max potion, and a gold potion/computer search. It should keep kyurem going every turn while conserving energy drops...

I'm defiantly gonna try both though as they both sound viable to me...
 
Max Potion would destroy yourself. Bye Bye energies. Oh no 3 more turns to set up. However, Gold Potion and Potion would work just as fine.
 
isn't that what energy switch/switch/exp. share/gold potion is for? (potion might be better I suppose)

also if energy acceleration is the problem, then pokedex/ether could possibly be the answer, letting you get a T2 kyurem...
 
What I was planning on doing with Dusknoir was running it alongside Stoutland. Sure you aren't doing much with the whole spreading idea, but on the other hand, you now have a way to manipulate all of the extra damage off of your opponents active Pokemon, making your deck as efficient as possible when it comes to KOing various threats.

Dusknoir could be a 1-0-1 tech in Flygon, but not much more than that.
 
What about Darkrai EX? You don't need EXP. Share or Ether or a clunky stage 2 for energy acceleration, since you have Dark Patch, and Night Spear does 90 + 30 = 120 and you can add Dark Claw onto that, and it can also give Dusknoir free retreat. Man, if only Special Dark was still in the format.
 
I toyed with darkrai a bit, but gave up the idea because it takes almost as long to get him set up as kyurem, he needs a tool to do massive damage, and with all that damage, you're really going to tempt them to play a max potion/gold potion/SSU

it could work I suppose...
 
Dusknoir can work with pretty much anything that can spit out a bunch of damage all at once. The Pokémon you're pairing it with has to be able to quickly and consistently attack, and places it on multiple Pokémon to avoid knocking out one you don't want to. Let's look at the cards that can hit multiple Pokémon at once:
Landorus EX (Hammer Head)
Darkrai EX (Night Spear)
Charizard (Bomb)
Vibrava (Sand Impulse)
Flygon (Sand Prison)
Electrivire (Electric Wave)
Ampharos (Electrobullet)
Stunfisk DRX (Muddy Water)
Registeel EX (Triple Laser)
Vaporeon (Muddy Water)
Kyogre EX (Dual Splash)
Minun (Electrishower)
Groudon EX (Tromp)
Lucario (Aura Sphere)
Kyurem (Glaciate)
Chandelure (Cursed Shadow)
Archeops (Rock Slide)
Landorus (Gaia Hammer)
Hydreigon NVI (Berserker Blade)
Simisear BLW (Flame Burst)
Zebstrika BLW (Electrispark)
Alright, that's a lot. But how many of these are viable choices? Some suffer from extremly lot damage output, others may be too slow to work efficiently. Let's look at the ones that would work the best, and what supporting cards you'd need to make it work.

Landorus EX
Landorus EX has a cheap attack cost, can attack on the first turn, and can work pretty much on its own, but has a low damage output and will suffer late game because 80 damage isn't much, and having to discard will slow you down considerably. Plus, it will most likely knock out your opponent, so you can't move the damage around the way you want.

Darkrai EX
Darkrai would use Dark Patch to attack faster, possibly firing off a T1 Night Spear. While this can hurt your opponent, in a BW-on format that will be harder to pull off, and the deck will be infinently inferior to Darkrai/Hydreigon.

Vibrava/Flygon
This could work with Celebi EX. Place damage each turn with Vibrava's attack, and then add 10 to each between turns with Flygon's Ability. Their Dragon typing will help you with placing more damage on the field, but will also harm you because you'll be so easily Knocked Out by other Dragon types. The deck will be slower thanks to having to evolve through Vibrava to funtion and running two different Stage Two lines, but it may work.

Electrivire
It hits by T2 and it has a usable second attack. It's basically Kyurem but only for the Bench. This combo does have its downfalls, though. It has only 120 HP and is weak to Fighting. You won't have room for very many supporting Pokémon in the deck either, thanks to having to run a heavier line of Electivire because it's so fragile. If your opponent uses a low Bench you won't be doing much damage.Chances are, once your opponent realizes what it does, they'll avoid benching very many Pokémon. Heck, as soon as your opponent see the Electabuzz they'll be cautious, provided they're familliar with the cards in the set.

Registeel EX
You can start placing damage by turn 2. That's pretty good, but you can only do 90 damage total, and that won't be scoring too many KOs. However, the deck will be fairly fast and consistent, so it could work just fine.

Kyurem
While slow, Kyurem can do a potential 180 damage should your opponent have a full bench. It also has a usable attack in Outrage. Its slow speed can be somewhat boosted with the unreliable Ether engine, but will probably remain one of the slowest Dusknoir variants. You could use Blastoise, but that would be so slow and inconsistent it would probably just make it worse.

Well, that's my idea for what cards should be used in Dusknoir decks.

[/sand=9Tailz]
 
nice way of slamming down the spread pokemon, thanks! :D

I agree with most of what you say, except flygon/celebi. I want the deck to work with him badly, I really do, but 2 stage 2's is alittle too slow for dusknoir.... (I could try to make it work, but all the recent decks with 2 stage 2's implemented trainer lock....)

I completely forgot about triple laser on registeel! with a DCE and energy switch, he could probably be placed with landorus to cause great early game pressure. the deck would be weak mid-late game, but if you get 3-4 triple lasers off and 2-3 hammer heads then you can OHKO 3 EX cards and win the game xD (this also doesn't sound too unrealistic either thanks to cards like Eviolite, exp. share, potion engine etc.) in this sense, the deck's one weakness is decks that don't use a ton of EX's (Early pressure zeels, and fluffychomp come to mind....)

idk, but thanks for mentioning registeel! that open up so many doors xD
 
I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but I like Blastoise/Keldeo EX/Kyurem EX/1-0-1 Dusknoir. 1-0-1 techs get a lot more viable with Ditto.
 
I remember reading somewhere that the pokedex ether engine has been working pretty well in japan you could pretty easily get a t2 kyurem or maybe even t1 if lucky and probably an easy t1 registeel
 
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