Darkrai EX to become staple?

Cinema

Cinema

Gyarados Bait
Member
Assuming that there isn't an accidental error in the translation of Darkrai EX, the wording makes it sound like Rainbow works for the ability, since once in play it counts as a dark. If this is true, will a single Darkrai EX and a few Rainbow Energy replace switch in many decks? And what about in Chandelure, will it replace Dodrio?

Thoughts/Concerns?

Darkrai EX – Darkness – HP180
Basic Pokemon

Ability: Darkness Cloak
As long as this Pokemon is in play, all of your Pokemon with any Darkness Energy attached to them have no Retreat cost.

[D][D][C] Night Spear: 90 damage. Choose 1 of your opponent’s Benched Pokemon, and this attack also does 30 damage to that Pokemon. (Don’t apply Weakness and Resistance when damaging the Bench.)

Pokemon-EX Rule: When Pokemon-EX is Knocked Out, your opponent takes 2 Prize cards.

Weakness: Fighting (x2)
Resistance: Psychic (-20)
Retreat: 2

44/69
 
You have to invest in a new energy line, so it's not worth-it when you can just run Switch. It might have been, since theoretically you can drop Switch for the Rainbow, but Darkrai is also a 2-prize Catcher liability.

It's better than Dodrio in Chandelure, but it probably won't see play in it. You don't have room for the Dark energy, and Rainbow obviously doesn't fit in it. If there was more room in the deck, it might have worked in there.
 
Except that switch is blocked by trainer lock. In Chandelure, you could just take out the 3-3 Dodrio for 2 Darkrai EX (in case 1 is prized of course) and 4 dark energy. It's hardly a liability since it'll take quite a few resources to KO it. I haven't tested it, but I think it could be better than switch in some decks, specifically those that need to use switch and have trouble with trainer lock, like maybe Magnezone.
 
People would have run Dodrio if Switch getting blocked was such a big concern. Anybody who runs 3-3 Dodrio in Chandelure (lock version) is stupid; it's always a 2-2, so you only get 2 dark energy. But furthermore, you seem to have completely missed the "if a Darkness is attached" part of the card. That adds an entire step to the process. Energy, unlike a Pokémon, is not searchable. So, you need to draw into a whole extra card, and waste your valuable energy attachment per turn on an energy type you wouldn't even run in the first place.

Tl;dr: What makes it better than Dodrio in non-dark decks?
 
I see your point; Dodrio IS better under most circumstances. Just for things that either already use Dark/Rainbow energy, or when the retreat is 3 or more. It may also be better in google when EX's come out since they all have fat retreats, but that's later. I see your point, and thanks for the imput.

EDIT: And I wasn't implying that 3-3 is used in the lock version, but in the speed version 3-3 is often used in case of one being prized and the other being catcher+KO'ed.
 
Trainer lock isn't going to be as big a deal when Dark Rush comes out with the release of fellow EX, Raikou. Raikou can OHKO Reuniclus and two shot Vileplume. Lock decks will become, imho, a pretty poor play. As Celebi said though, if lock was such a huge problem vs switch, we'd have seen more Dodrio by now, but not even one prize against Catcher was deemed worth it, let alone 2.

I myself wonder how many dark decks will find it worth the risk to play Darkrai, let alone non dark decks.
 
Celebi23 said:
People would have run Dodrio if Switch getting blocked was such a big concern. Anybody who runs 3-3 Dodrio in Chandelure (lock version) is stupid; it's always a 2-2, so you only get 2 dark energy. But furthermore, you seem to have completely missed the "if a Darkness is attached" part of the card. That adds an entire step to the process. Energy, unlike a Pokémon, is not searchable. So, you need to draw into a whole extra card, and waste your valuable energy attachment per turn on an energy type you wouldn't even run in the first place.

Tl;dr: What makes it better than Dodrio in non-dark decks?
Click to expand...

Energy is searchable with Energy Search and Cilan which we will have by the time we get DarkraiEX.

2 things make it better a. It's a Basic with 180 HP unlike Dodrio's 80 HP. b. There isn't a Fighting type (that's played) that can OHKO besides Terrakion with 3 energy attached.
 
^How about Donphan with 3 energy...

Magnevire said:
Raikou can OHKO Reuniclus and two shot Vileplume.
Click to expand...

You do realize you have to discard all of your lightning energy, right? Sure its possible, but won't be easy at all. There are easier ways to get vileplume active.
 
DeepSleepDarkrai said:
Energy is searchable with Energy Search and Cilan which we will have by the time we get DarkraiEX.

2 things make it better a. It's a Basic with 180 HP unlike Dodrio's 80 HP. b. There isn't a Fighting type (that's played) that can OHKO besides Terrakion with 3 energy attached.
Click to expand...
Nobody in their right mind will ever even CONSIDER playing Energy Search or Cilan. They're both horrible cards. Energy Search has been in the format since the game was first created, but it never saw any real competitive play. It was gimmicky in Gigas and it's still gimmicky in Zekrom. Cilan is just a worse version of Mr. Stone's Project, which never saw play either.

It has 180HP, sure, but if I do KO it, you just lost 2 prizes. So, it technically has the same exchange rate as Dodrio, but if I can OHKO it with Magnezone, Machamp, Donphan, or Terrakion, it has a worse exchange rate.

You also seem to have completely missed the part of the card that reads Darkness energy attached. You have to run an entirely new energy type in your deck. And for what? Just to retreat. Energy is an incredibly valuable resource in this game, and in a format where it is not practically searchable, adding too many types to your deck is one of the worst decisions you can make. Furthermore, if you have to attach to the active you want to retreat on the turn you retreat it, it's impractical as it means you can't use your valuable once-per-turn energy attachment on whatever card you're going to bring up next. Every deck space is valuable. Running a 6-card "tech" to retreat under trainer lock over just running 2 Switch wouldn't ever happen. And furthermore, Darkrai isn't even better than Switch, so you're taking up more space in your deck to run inferior cards.
 
AmishEskimoNinja said:
^How about Donphan with 3 energy...


You do realize you have to discard all of your lightning energy, right? Sure its possible, but won't be easy at all. There are easier ways to get vileplume active.
Click to expand...


Very aware. However, most decks running Raikou are also going to run Eelektrik. The key KO is Reuniclus, which it can one shot. Lock decks lose a lot of their strength without Reuniclus, and are so slow that, especially with Eelektrik, you could build up Raikou again no problem while swinging with something else. Zekrom for example. Or Magnezone. Or Thundurus. Or Lanturn.
 
Celebi23 said:
Nobody in their right mind will ever even CONSIDER playing Energy Search or Cilan. They're both horrible cards. Energy Search has been in the format since the game was first created, but it never saw any real competitive play. It was gimmicky in Gigas and it's still gimmicky in Zekrom. Cilan is just a worse version of Mr. Stone's Project, which never saw play either.

It has 180HP, sure, but if I do KO it, you just lost 2 prizes. So, it technically has the same exchange rate as Dodrio, but if I can OHKO it with Magnezone, Machamp, Donphan, or Terrakion, it has a worse exchange rate.

You also seem to have completely missed the part of the card that reads Darkness energy attached. You have to run an entirely new energy type in your deck. And for what? Just to retreat. Energy is an incredibly valuable resource in this game, and in a format where it is not practically searchable, adding too many types to your deck is one of the worst decisions you can make. Furthermore, if you have to attach to the active you want to retreat on the turn you retreat it, it's impractical as it means you can't use your valuable once-per-turn energy attachment on whatever card you're going to bring up next. Every deck space is valuable. Running a 6-card "tech" to retreat under trainer lock over just running 2 Switch wouldn't ever happen. And furthermore, Darkrai isn't even better than Switch, so you're taking up more space in your deck to run inferior cards.
Click to expand...

I do know that they are both very bad cards, I was just making the point that there are ways to search for energy.

By the time we get DarkraiEX, which at the earliest would be in our May set, Magnezone, Machamp, and Donphan will be rotated by September. My comment was geared to next format which is where Darkrai will make a difference.
 
You guys really think that Cilan is going to be a bad card? When I read it, I thought that it would be the card of the set, a three energy search? Hi Dragons. I play Energy Search in a lot of things too, although I know it isn't very good. Anyways, back to the the point of this thread.

I think that Darkrai will see a decent amount of play in certain things, such as google's and maybe Magnezone variants. I like it as a card, and teching in Rainbow Energy is very easy for a lot of decks, and a lot of decks already play Rainbow. Some issues that I can see with Darkrai right off the bat are that it does give your opponent two prizes if killed, and a lone Darkrai start doesn't sound like much fun. I think Darkrai will only be played effectively in Trainer Lock decks, and will really work well with google's, it is already playing Rainbow Energy, and they can't Pokémon Catcher Darkrai into your active. It is definitely a card worth considering.
 
Energy is searchable with Energy Search and Cilan which we will have by the time we get DarkraiEX.



DeepSleepDarkrai said:
2 things make it better a. It's a Basic with 180 HP unlike Dodrio's 80 HP. b. There isn't a Fighting type (that's played) that can OHKO besides Terrakion with 3 energy attached.
Click to expand...

Dood. You kill something. Terrakion can one-shot you with 2 Energy once you snipe Reuniclus. You also discard your energy, which means that you can't attack for at least another 2 Turns. By that time your opponent will have found a way to kill you and you just lost 2 Prizes to their 1. Besides, if Raikou gets popular I have a feeling that some tech like Muk or that new Carnivine will drag you up under Trainer Lock and make your life a nightmare with a 2 Prize liability active under status.
 
venasour x said:
Energy is searchable with Energy Search and Cilan which we will have by the time we get DarkraiEX.




Dood. You kill something. Terrakion can one-shot you with 2 Energy once you snipe Reuniclus. You also discard your energy, which means that you can't attack for at least another 2 Turns. By that time your opponent will have found a way to kill you and you just lost 2 Prizes to their 1. Besides, if Raikou gets popular I have a feeling that some tech like Muk or that new Carnivine will drag you up under Trainer Lock and make your life a nightmare with a 2 Prize liability active under status.
Click to expand...

I was talking about Darkrai in Chandelure it uses it's ability and nothing get's KO'd by attack so Terrakion's attack only does 60 for 2.
 
Cilan terrible? In some decks, maybe. But anything with energy eccel it's great in.

And I don't think counting Rainbows for Darkrai's ability is quite fair- your still getting an energy attatch, and it can count for any energy.
 
I think Cilan could have its uses, but I think some of the stigma against it comes from the fact that most decks in the format can't really run on it (Eelzone discards, Emboar variants have fallen out of favor, Feraligatr see Emboar), and you're basically blowing your supporter slot on the most common card in the deck. ZPST could run it, and run less energy in the process, but it would need a way to get out basics and four dual ball might not cut it.
 
Have none of you considered what this card achieves in darkness decks?

Free retreat on Hydrogeoutta the game I took 3 prizes for 4 energy?

Yes please! It also has a very solid attack of it's own, even without +10 damage boost from a special energy.
 
4 Dual Ball
4 Level Ball
2 Pokegear
2 Cilan

A new Staple TSS line for ZPST? Only time will tell...

On the subject of Darkrai EX, I'm planning on playing it in practically everything that uses a Basic pokemon as a main attacker; Prism Energy and Rainbow Energy means that I wouldn't even need to play any Darkness energy to give all my attackers free retreat.

In any deck that uses Colorless Energy, or can afford to toss in Rainbow Energy or a few Dark, it would have a place. Jumpl...I mean, Empoleon could use it to stream attackers without giving up Prizes as fast, and its built in drawpower makes it more accessible (Unown Dark becomes a searchable Switch; Pokemon Collector grabs you Darkrai, Unown and another Basic of your choice to grab whatever is stuck active out of there)

In dedicated Dark decks, such as the possible Zoroark Rush deck that is being discussed in another thread, it is a no brainer. Darkrai EX could easily be the main attacker of its own deck, since its attack is pretty solid (130 to the Active assuming the new Dark Tool and two Sp.Darks and 30 to the bench) and its HP gives it the bulk it needs to survive. Resistance to Psychic is a huge boon as well, as it helps against the very real threat of Mewtwo EX. I could easily see Darkrai EX becoming the main attacker in a post-Dark Rush Truth deck.

So, at least in my opinion, Darkrai EX could be a very valuable tech card that should certainly not be discounted as the focus for decks on its own merits.
 
Darkrai has it's uses, but it can be catcher ko'd for 2 prizes. In a basic attacking deck, skyarrow bridge is better.
 
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