What Can Be Done to Improve PokeBeach Forums?

[Riskbreakers]

If any of you readers find Gale's post to be tl;dr, it can be summarized in this sentence

Pokebeach is like a Communism/Dictatorship. I hope you guys take that comment professionally and not personally though.

 

[PMJ]

Just echoing Gale in saying that yeah we are on pretty much all the time. I'll refrain from going invisible so it at least looks like I'm around more.

 

[Noobnerd]

Finally.

Edit: My quotes in this post are for things I agree with, not what I'm countering.

I think the biggest problem is that its just TPO3 and TDL modding it, with no active super moderator present (active implying posts a lot in said forum).

Steadfast is involved? In what? See, the members don't KNOW he's involved. We just think he's sitting around doing nothing. If projects were made known to the public, we'd know he's doing something, and we wouldn't be talking about this.

I am still extremely appalled that Pride was not chosen as Head of Video Gaming. dragonexpert recently stated that "We had our reasons for who got demodded and for choosing Steadfast to be the VG Head."

Personally I have nothing against SF; I actually think he's quite nice :3. But I really would like to hear the epic reason of the person(s) who made this decision to not choose an extremely competent battler, who has been around for this forum longer and has more experience as a mod and in the VG community, and on top of that, friendlier than KG, as our VG Head.

Since it has been claimed that SF is still active, and which I hope is true, seeing that he visits daily and actually replied my profile comment even though he wasn't posting in the public forums, I was actually hoping for him to come and redeem himself for his apparent inactivity and to counter the little argument that began in [thread]Community Team 1[/thread]. The fact that the guy who had absolutely no reason to return to this site to help because he was rejected, but nevertheless, posted there, while the head was nowhere to be seen, is a little disturbing.

I hope that SF will come out of... uh, hiding? And prove that he is a better choice than Pride for that post and that whoever made the decision was right!

Oh, and also I'd like to commend teapot tdl and the other mods in the VG for trying to do something. I am in no position to judge how good you all are, but may I suggest doing what Kevin did in the old days i.e. importing someone really credible to help out in VG again. Clearly, the lack of good battlers and the reputation is a problem here, and even with you guys around, it's not going to be easy to save.

Yes, there's the occasional "You guys like this idea?" or "Got any ideas for this?", members don't get a chance to really help out and make the site better.

Hahaha this is funny but it's kinda true. There are a few good people with resources that have not been tapped on yet. I'm not into VG, TCG or forum programming, so I can't point out any names of course, but I'm sure there are.

Having one or two moderators moderate specific forums is stupid.

Way back before I left I raised this point when somebody-I-forgot began introducing the junior mods. We were starting to go in that Serebii direction where we had many too many mods and members just didn't know who they were. This adds to unnecessary complexity and sort of creates a divide between the staff and the members. I'm under the impression that communication was better back in 2008/2009 when there were much less of us. Anyone here share the same sentiments as I do?

Personally, I don't even know who's the de facto leader of the forum now. Last time it was obvious that Bela had the most influence. Now I can only guess Zack is the one directing most of the work on WPM's behalf but I'm not too sure. Perhaps the roles could be more clearly defined? Not a major issue anyway, just something I wasn't clear about!

Moreover, I doubt that there's too much activity in any individual forum to warrant close monitoring and thus having mods only for that specific area, other than the Trading Corner and the competitive parts of the forum that need direction. While not a major issue, I do advocate a return to the old system sometime in the future when we have everything else settled.

Myself, bacon, and a lot of other former mods have talked about this and agreed that we worked hard to become moderators, and we worked hard while we were moderators.

DISCLAIMER: I was not involved in this discussion. :C You guys suck for leaving me out.

But omahanime is right; yes, most of us worked hard *cough* *notreferringtoyouorbacon* but they are not necessarily evident in the posts. I remember doing a lot of background work and I witnessed the other mods doing them too. You can't see reports being handled. You can't see warnings being given out (unless people start complaining about them openly).

Nevertheless it wouldn't hurt if we could hear more of what undercover work you guys are doing. We are a community after all, not a dictatorship. I don't think that there are many "state secrets" to protect other than that of serious mod scandals and WPM's riddles during April Fools'/mod promotion season. This is especially true for the competitive areas; I get the impression that many people want to see something being done.

Yes, we don't have to know everything, but I don't really feel that being resistant to a small degree of transparency (referring to [member]omahanime[/member] and [member]ESP[/member]'s posts) is really that big of an issue. There are other issues raised in the OP anyway.

Oh and, talking about mod inactivity and the subject of hiding stuff, not really convinced that the reasons for demodding CCloud and Juliacoolo are that valid, from what I've gathered so far. Could anyone care to explain?

Skill should not be the only factor in determining who should be a mod and who should not be. PDC, for example, was a very skilled VG battler, but he was very immature. Skill does not warrant becoming a mod.

This too. Why did PDC become a mod?

What Riskbreakers said: Balance. This is very subjective of course, but if we want to move Pokebeach out from the kiddy-forums-for-everyone! zone, drastic action is necessary. It already has been taken (recent forum changes such as Game Corner going away) but it doesn't stop there, doesn't it?

and then members (mostly veterans) repeatedly bashing that member and his/her post because they are wrong or misinformed, without a single notion made of wanting to help said member (and the member usually isn't old/mature enough to understand some concepts of the game).

People are generally just being brainless jerks, and unless we try to fix it, we'll lose the #1 thing we have over forums: a friendly community. That's why I joined PokéBeach in the first place; the people here are so intelligent and friendly that I made posting here as opposed to other forums my first priority. If we can fix this, just this, then I think everything else can start falling back in place.

Big problem with Pokebeach. Two big sides: many noobs who noob around, and a group of elite people, some of whom try to help, some who are helping but losing patience and are seen as trolls, some who really are trolls and don't help.

Eternal problem. Something needs to be done about this.

-----

I'm actually more optimistic than most of the posters I quoted. I'm quite a noob at all things Pokemon myself so I don't want this place to become a Pokegym or Smogon. But I would like to point out a pattern for the past few years which has been:

1. Cool members join.
2. Cool members wanna/can do stuff.
3. Some cool members become mod.
4. Some mods do stuff in background.
5. Rest of cool members can't see tangible changes, voice out concern/riot e.g. this.
6. Some troll riot in a manner too uncivilised and get exiled/exile themselves.
7. Some mods then lose hope and quit.
8. Cycle repeats.

Nevertheless I'm actually okay with the current forum team from what I've seen so far and I hope that uh, we can do something. Yay.

 

[King Arceus]

It's just the decisions on choosing other staff that bothers me a little

I'd like to get your side of who you think we should be modding then.

edit due to Noobnerd posting before me while I was posting:

I believe the reasons mods are demodded are kept secret is because it is kind of like a job. Only the managers know why someone got fired or resigned. You might only be hearing JC's side of his demotion. I assure you we had plenty of reason for it.

 

[Gale]

I'd like to get your side of who you think we should be modding then.

We shouldn't be modding anyone until we get rid of our inactive mods who don't contribute anything. Openly, at least.

Also, Noobnerd's post is 100% the truth.

 

[Riskbreakers]

Gale pretty much answered the question for me. Do it like before, it seemed less chaotic before. Seriously, some of you guys treat modding decisions like KFC's Recipe. It's like some heavily-guarded secret that could destroy the forum if it gets out.

 

[King Arceus]

Part of the rules I have to follow restricts what I can and cannot say. I'm sure the exmods and smods know this. Unless I have specific approval from SR and WPM to post something like that, I'm not going to.

 

[Riskbreakers]

I don't blame you. I blame the system itself. You're cool and all but the system itself has to change.

 

[MrGatr]

I think if S-Mods are going invisible, they need to have a good reason....
Not just cause they don't wanna be bothered...

EDIT:

I'd like to get your side of who you think we should be modding then.

We don't need to change forums...
We just need to add some more people to the staff were needed....
*Cough* Writers Corner *Cough* *Cough*

 

[Gale]

We're beyond the point where we have to know why certain members were modded. When something like half the forum was modded a year ago, I'm sure there were some reasons behind that, although I can't for the life of me even begin to formulate in my mind what they might have been. Obviously that didn't work out because 3/4 of the members who were modded have now been demodded. We are now at the point, however, where I have to implore you guys fix the staff. The staff has always been a huge problem for PokeBeach, and it's always been a big reason why people sort of laugh at us. I've already said what I think we should do to fix it. We need to promote people who have shown they do well at the TCG or Video Games. Like PMJ said, they don't have to have won Worlds or Nats or anything. We're not in the position to be making those kinds of demands. We don't only need to promote people who have shown they have done well at TCG, but we also have to promote people who are going to contribute to the forums. Writing articles, writing stickied threads, helping members out, that kind of things. Celebi23 posts in the TCG forums more than any of the TCG mods and he helps out more than anyone, for example.

Stop overlooking members who are working hard to improve the forum. We don't have many people left who are like that, but we should be using the ones we do have to our advantage, before they leave for another website. There's nothing keeping the few skilled TCG players we have here from joining another website like http://google.com/ that's actually going to reward them for their skill.

 

[Riskbreakers]

I think if S-Mods are going invisible, they need to have a good reason....
Not just cause they don't wanna be bothered...

I don't see that as much of a problem. It's their choice to be invisible so let them be.

 

[King Arceus]

I don't see that as much of a problem. It's their choice to be invisible so let them be.

I agree with this.

@Gale: I do agree that Celebi23 does a great job. We need more members like him.

 

[Noobnerd]

I believe the reasons mods are demodded are kept secret is because it is kind of like a job. Only the managers know why someone got fired or resigned. You might only be hearing JC's side of his demotion. I assure you we had plenty of reason for it.

Yes, and to protect their privacy, we do need to hide some stuff. But this isn't a country; do we need to guard every secret so closely? It's not as if we're putting the whole Pokebeach in jeopardy. Moreover, I don't think you can expect to make major changes in forum staff and just asking everyone not to ask about it and making them shut up. :S

Hmm... I'm not sure what his story is; I merely inferred by looking around some forums and threads.

Edit: I take back what I said. But yes I still have a feeling that some decisions were not made... well. :<

 

[pokemeister899]

Bring back the Pokebeach groups section. Why? First, it would be convenient for teams who play Pokemon competitively to have a thread here, and not with random threads being made. In the important forum changes thread, one of the reasons you were closing it was to focus more on what the site was built on, TCG and VG, wouldnt having sections for TCG and VG teams be apart of that? Also you said that you wanted to improve more organization. When I look at where the new section where the group threads are being allowed, and what do I see? A big, cluttered, mess. I see some team threads, and random threads about whatever. This is not organized, Pokebeach mods. Also, I remembered that group threads had to be approved in the groups section. What if random people make group threads that are not organized, or any of that, and mods cant even check to see if its organized or not because the group threads are mixed in with other threads? With all the other sections and threads being closed, I understand, but closing down the Pokebeach groups section is the worse idea I've seen yet.(oh and yes, I kind of came back just to say this)

 

[ESP]

Bring back the Pokebeach groups section. Why? First, it would be convenient for teams who play Pokemon competitively to have a thread here, and not with random threads being made. In the important forum changes thread, one of the reasons you were closing it was to focus more on what the site was built on, TCG and VG, wouldnt having sections for TCG and VG teams be apart of that? Also you said that you wanted to improve more organization. When I look at where the new section where the group threads are being allowed, and what do I see? A big, cluttered, mess. I see some team threads, and random threads about whatever. This is not organized, Pokebeach mods. Also, I remembered that group threads had to be approved in the groups section. What if random people make group threads that are not organized, or any of that, and mods cant even check to see if its organized or not because the group threads are mixed in with other threads? With all the other sections and threads being closed, I understand, but closing down the Pokebeach groups section is the worse idea I've seen yet.(oh and yes, I kind of came back just to say this)

The groups section as a whole takes away from forum unity, and good discussion including all members about good decks and combos. If you want a group, make a Facebook group or meet in real life. We just don't want it here.

Pokebeach is like a Communism/Dictatorship. I hope you guys take that comment professionally and not personally though.

But what's wrong with that? Without trying to go off on too much of a tangent here, those forms of government have gotten a bad rep in recent history because of some of the people who ran them were bad people with bad morals. However, these can be very effective ways to run a country (and similarly, a forum). I'm not saying that Pokebeach should be run like a dictatorship. I'm saying that if it's similar to one, but also with community input (which is what this thread is about), it can be a great place.

When something like half the forum was modded a year ago, I'm sure there were some reasons behind that, although I can't for the life of me even begin to formulate in my mind what they might have been. Obviously that didn't work out because 3/4 of the members who were modded have now been demodded.

Stop overlooking members who are working hard to improve the forum. We don't have many people left who are like that, but we should be using the ones we do have to our advantage, before they leave for another website.

Without trying to take your words out of context, I'm just going to say one thing. I can't really tell if you want less mods or more mods. We can't have both. It seems like you want a complete overhaul of the mods, replacing some with more "accomplished" TCG players/VG/whatever their field is. However, I can pretty much tell you that won't just happen immediately, and probably not in the near future either. This suggestion will likely be thought of when more mods are needed in the future though.

 

[pokemeister899]

The groups section as a whole takes away from forum unity, and good discussion including all members about good decks and combos. If you want a group, make a Facebook group or meet in real life. We just don't want it here.

You don't get it. Clan threads shouldn't even have a "discussion" topic, especially if its a competitive team. And they definitely shouldn't be forced to have one.(kind of like that communism thing riskbreakers said) Competitive teams use their threads for posting their war results, scheduling a war, scheduling tryouts for new members, or just chatting with each other. Meeting in real life is probably the worser option of the ones you gave tbh, considering the ages of members in a clan means that they are probably not old enough to go traveling the world by themselves. On another site I go on, there is a clan system that works perfectly, sort of like the one I described. Facebook isnt the best option either, considering not many people would join there. Putting a clan section on a forum like this would be perfect. And once again, moving the clan threads to a forum where you can make random other topics is not being "organized" like you mods said you would try to be.

 

[Gale]

Without trying to take your words out of context, I'm just going to say one thing. I can't really tell if you want less mods or more mods. We can't have both. It seems like you want a complete overhaul of the mods, replacing some with more "accomplished" TCG players/VG/whatever their field is. However, I can pretty much tell you that won't just happen immediately, and probably not in the near future either. This suggestion will likely be thought of when more mods are needed in the future though.

What I'm trying to say, and this is echoing what a lot of people are thinking, is that we should get rid of moderators who don't contribute, who are known to not have experience with the TCG, or who don't do anything to help the TCG, and have just a few moderators who instead actually know what they're doing, have proven that they want to help out and that they are already helping out, and who have proven to done well at tournaments. Why won't this happen immediately or in the near future? In the past six months we've seen a tremendous amount of staff changes happen very fast, often without reason. Now that there's a good reason brought up by other people, the changes aren't going to happen? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

More moderators are needed now in order to help the forum move forward. Like I said, obviously there are problems, and obviously they need to be fixed.

 

[PMJ]

Gale for admin 2011

 

[Glace]

You don't get it. Clan threads shouldn't even have a "discussion" topic, especially if its a competitive team. And they definitely shouldn't be forced to have one.(kind of like that communism thing riskbreakers said) Competitive teams use their threads for posting their war results, scheduling a war, scheduling tryouts for new members, or just chatting with each other. Meeting in real life is probably the worser option of the ones you gave tbh, considering the ages of members in a clan means that they are probably not old enough to go traveling the world by themselves. On another site I go on, there is a clan system that works perfectly, sort of like the one I described. Facebook isnt the best option either, considering not many people would join there. Putting a clan section on a forum like this would be perfect. And once again, moving the clan threads to a forum where you can make random other topics is not being "organized" like you mods said you would try to be.

WAR results? Team Typhoon is not for war results. People can ask for advice or help (don't say people don't ask for help I've helped people with lists before, and I remember piplup234 helped me a ton before nats), and tell how they've done at events.

Discussion topics can be useful in seeing other people's opinion on certain decks or cards. When ZPST became a deck, I thought it was awful. I don't now.

Clans are not about "war", (this for TCG) but about getting advice from teammates and friends, discussing cards and ideas and helping other members.

 

[Spammy]

I agree with some of the mods saying that Gale is contradicting himself, but I think he simply means we need less mods that don't contribute and more mods that do, however, we do not need such a large staff as we do now. At least that is my interpretation.

If we remove VG groups, more will have to be done on the staff's part as far as holding competitions, tutoring, etc, as the VG groups mostly organized those things within themselves.