Finished Mafia XLII: War of the Gods ~ GAME OVER ~ Town wins!

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Explain why this is scummy smh.
It's scummy because scum contradict themselves when they haven't thought through their opinions/reads, or are trying to fake said opinions/reads. Town also do it accidentally or unintentionally somewhat regularly (you tend to do it oftenish tbh), hence why it's difficult tell to work with, and why I'm not like "NP is scum for contradicting lynch gogogo" right now.

I need to do CaC. I'll reply to shorter posts here as breaks because my attention span is terrible anyway, and I don't have anything new to add I don't think.
Once you're done CaC then. You should be able to provide a fairly basic list since you seem to know the case inside-out, even if you can't go into particular depth due to time.
 
It's scummy because scum contradict themselves when they haven't thought through their opinions/reads, or are trying to fake said opinions/reads. Town also do it accidentally or unintentionally somewhat regularly (you tend to do it oftenish tbh), hence why it's difficult tell to work with, and why I'm not like "NP is scum for contradicting lynch gogogo" right now.
> Says I do X as town
> Says X is scummy on me
> Gives player who doesn't do X as town the benefit of the doubt for doing X

That makes sense to me.
Once you're done CaC then. You should be able to provide a fairly basic list since you seem to know the case inside-out, even if you can't go into particular depth due to time.
CAC and this day phase fall around the same time, and you'd better believe I'm submitting CaC 5 minutes before deadline. :p
 
> Says I do X as town
> Says X is scummy on me
> Gives player who doesn't do X as town the benefit of the doubt for doing X
I don't think you're scummy for it either (I can see how that post can be read like that though).; I think it's normal for you - see "you tend to do it oftenish tbh". There really should be a "could" between "It's" and "scummy".

CAC and this day phase fall around the same time, and you'd better believe I'm submitting CaC 5 minutes before deadline. :p
So you literally can't write up a quick post with the fundamental reasons? Like, you literally expected NP to post what his meta was like despite him being somewhat busy (which is a fair call), but you won't do a similar thing yourself in this situation.
 
So you literally can't write up a quick post with the fundamental reasons? Like, you literally expected NP to post what his meta was like despite him being somewhat busy (which is a fair call), but you won't do a similar thing yourself in this situation.
I didn't get tied up in NP not doing one thing and keep bringing it up like what is happening here, so I disagree with that comparison. Scattered has made a good case on NP and a good summary of my case; I see no need to repeat him.
 
Finally here in Nassau, and with some time to spare. The internet is crap and unpredictable, so I can't promise a single day of activity. My phone for whatever reason refuses to connect to the Wi-Fi so posting away from my hotel room (where I will be most of the time) is impossible right now.

Sorry? Looking back, I don't think you've actually ever said I'm scummy, for starters, so this comment is out of the blue. It's also interesting to note that the two people that have a scumread on you are NP and myself, and while NP is scummy for other reasons, finding me scummy so suddenly is indication of scummy OMGUSy.
I've said you're scummy.
Would IE ever give us a good reaction to a vote Lorde confirmed was not serious?
For someone who hates WIFOM so much I don't know why you're using it here.
How do you get a reaction without your votes even having a reason (and not being a bandwagon)? You were supporting those.
Nobody's going to respond to a bad reasoning either because they know that it's not serious, and it's not worth defending yourself from. Again, a case is usually enough.
It's one thing to have doubt for healthy reason. Your fabricated stance post does nothing like that. It tells the town to trust nobody based on their interactions, as anything can be fake. This attempts to get rid of one of the most effective ways of scumhunting.
Why should you trust anyone based on interactions? People can do anything in this game and make themselves look as town or scum as possible. You are very aware last game this was the case, I had more town reads than pretty much anyone, and flipped scum.
How are you aggressive?
I'm very aggressive defensively for the most part. On the offense, I'm more (but not very) laid back.
I tagged jade. You responded. That's clearly strange (also, jade, this should answer your question on the strange interaction between you and her). As, since when was this an error on my part? You're attempting to light OMGUS me her, but it's not working.
My bad, I thought you meant that you meant to tag me in your post but tagged Jade instead, that's what I thought I was responding to with "an error on your part".
-Stop RVS from going through is bad wording. You tried to stop me from being aggressive to get us out of RVS more quickly.
-I'll respond to this when you respond to this post.
-Imteractions, not reactions. I can't tie you to others upon their flip because you flip flop on them. You can always point to the part of the quote that says you're not sure or it could be another reason, to show that you "obviously didn't help the mislynch". Same goes for vote counts. If you don't vote, nobidy can see it as we analyze vote counts near the end of the game.
-Only you can control your own playstyle. If you WIFOM all the time, you should probably tell yourself that your logic is bad and stop using it.
- I tried to stop you from being so headstrong, because I then felt that if you went into this game AS TOWN and you were so serious that you'd either get nightkilled or overthrown by a fed up town.
AtE mixed with OMGUS (on bb, like he said) and an appeasement vote.
C'mon, really? I've thought you were scum for basically the whole game now, you've been one of the only ones on my radar! That's not OMGUS, I voted for who I thought was scummy, and it just so happens you're who I think is scum right now. That's not OMGUS, that's voting in the direction I think will cause the scum to take a hit.
jade was when you fielded the question for him. Cel was when he said you summed up his thoughts even though you didn't understand the case.
I was just as confused about Celever as you were when he said that.
lorde is scum because:
- inconsistent tone that feels artificial, calculated and overexplained
- general WIFOMyness
- selective (bias towards NP being scummy) when using WIFOM
- potential OMGUS (needs clarifying/confirming)
- If you mean calculated, I usually spend a solid half hour making posts since they're usually long for me. This is normal in games across Superheroes-Present but there's not a way to confirm this so suspicion here is fine. Overexplaining is also normal for me.
- There's no use in arguing this.
- I think it's hysterical that he likes to call me out for it then goes and does it himself.
- See above.
What is the meaning of that, Lord?
Was replying to the part that was like "only 2 votes were there there's no need to unvote" part.
Point #4:
I'm trying to analyze this..

"His mindset isn't what I think makes him scummy"- The reason NP gave, stating his improved/new view on RVS and how its bad for town to not get out of this phase as quick as possible, is not the scummy part.

k, what is it then?

"its his defense and his promotion of intense pressure"- His defense is the mindset part.. isn't it? if not then what are you referring to?? the intense pressure itself is not scummy, it is the reason why he's so aggressive that can be scummy.
The mental mindset, and action while similar are still two different things, which is why I distinguished it. Your mindset can change easily but it has little to do with your actual actions if you're good (and NP is good).
mirdo is humorous as town, js. That post screams town.
He was (attempting to be) humorous as scum in Superheroes, and in no way does this rule him out. I don't think him attempting to be funny is indicative of alignment.
 
I didn't get tied up in NP not doing one thing and keep bringing it up like what is happening here, so I disagree with that comparison. Scattered has made a good case on NP and a good summary of my case; I see no need to repeat him.
Why. Must. You. Make. This. So. Unnecessarily. Difficult. The point is that you seem to know the case well and thus it should not be difficult for you to post a quick summary. You're not even saying that writing up the points would take too long - you're saying, "nah, I don't feel like it, and you just don't need it". I've already given multiple reasons as to why you repeating it is good, plus a few more that I've just thought of:
- It shows consistency on your part
- In case something is missed
- Your wording could make more sense than scattered's
- Repetition is helpful
- For everyone's benefit, not just mine.

I also wouldn't say that NP has made a case on NP.

Far out, it seriously shouldn't be beyond you to write up like two or three sentences that describe the case for us. You are just making things hard most frivilously and are quite frankly driving me up the wall.
 
I've said you're scummy.
I see this, roll my eyes and sigh, because seriously... this is a ridiculously unhelpful and meaningless answer. You have already stated that you had stated earlier that I was scum. I don't think this is case. If you actually did, why don't you just tell me when that was instead of giving this vague answer... >.>

And I shall now read the rest.
 
"I don't think this is case."

Clarification: I don't think or remember that you said I was scummy in the way that implied earlier.
 
Why should you trust anyone based on interactions? People can do anything in this game and make themselves look as town or scum as possible. You are very aware last game this was the case, I had more town reads than pretty much anyone, and flipped scum.
This entire game is about looking into interactions.

C'mon, really? I've thought you were scum for basically the whole game now, you've been one of the only ones on my radar! That's not OMGUS, I voted for who I thought was scummy, and it just so happens you're who I think is scum right now. That's not OMGUS, that's voting in the direction I think will cause the scum to take a hit.
Both here and earlier in this post you say or imply that I've been on your radar for the entire game. I am yet to see evidence from your posts across the Day that shows this being the case. I especially don't recall you giving any reasons for my scumminess, as I don't recall actually defending myself.

- If you mean calculated, I usually spend a solid half hour making posts since they're usually long for me. This is normal in games across Superheroes-Present but there's not a way to confirm this so suspicion here is fine. Overexplaining is also normal for me.
That was not what I was trying to get at; about being calculated. It's calculated in that it's overexplained, not because you take a while to make the posts, nor because they're long. You say that overexplaining is normal yet I quoted instances where you overexplained in RVS, yet in a similar situation did not overexplain, which is inconsistent.

- I think it's hysterical that he likes to call me out for it then goes and does it himself.
Uh, what? You left-field accusing me of using WIFOM biasly, yet you do not substantiate this claim with any evidence whatsoever. This is also considered OMGUS behaviour due to the lack of apparent evidence.
- See above.
Still waiting for evidence to show that you've consistently found me scummy this game.

The mental mindset, and action while similar are still two different things, which is why I distinguished it. Your mindset can change easily but it has little to do with your actual actions if you're good (and NP is good)
This logic is really confusing so I'm finding it hard to chew. Aren't your actions normally derived from your mindset? In fact, your mindset should reflect your actual actions and vice versa, and more so as you improve and get more experienced. @scattered mind This is lorde's answer to the point that seems to be the swaying factor for you, so what do you think?

Lorde, can you explain this post please:

Kinda true, kinda not true. Mostly he would, occasionally he wouldn't. Great point though, never thought of that.
What did you mean by "great point"?
 
What lorde has said just now doesn't really affect my read, as a lot of it does not respond adequately (e.g. OMGUS claims) - or not at all - to the underlying issues, or can't really be responded to because it's evident (e.g. WIFOM). There's also this thing about me being scummy, and she consistently thinking I'm scummy, which she is yet to substantiate.
 
Cel, the exact points you use are me are used in you, and you say "how is that scummy." Your contradiction is much larger than the one on me, as you requested a hammer and back pedaled in why you did. If it wasn't for the fact that Lorde looks like a more achievable lynch (and I need self-pres more than anything else rn), I'd have my vote on you.
Finally here in Nassau, and with some time to spare. The internet is crap and unpredictable, so I can't promise a single day of activity. My phone for whatever reason refuses to connect to the Wi-Fi so posting away from my hotel room (where I will be most of the time) is impossible right now.


I've said you're scummy.

For someone who hates WIFOM so much I don't know why you're using it here.
It's not WIFOM, it's a rhetorical question. Literally nobody responds to a vote without any reason. Show me a counter-example, and I'll change.
Nobody's going to respond to a bad reasoning either because they know that it's not serious, and it's not worth defending yourself from. Again, a case is usually enough.
How do those cases get created at first? From RVS reactions.
Why should you trust anyone based on interactions? People can do anything in this game and make themselves look as town or scum as possible. You are very aware last game this was the case, I had more town reads than pretty much anyone, and flipped scum.
Interactions are the basis of reads. This is the kind of post that attempts to undermine those.
I'm very aggressive defensively for the most part. On the offense, I'm more (but not very) laid back.

My bad, I thought you meant that you meant to tag me in your post but tagged Jade instead, that's what I thought I was responding to with "an error on your part".

- I tried to stop you from being so headstrong, because I then felt that if you went into this game AS TOWN and you were so serious that you'd either get nightkilled or overthrown by a fed up town.

C'mon, really? I've thought you were scum for basically the whole game now, you've been one of the only ones on my radar! That's not OMGUS, I voted for who I thought was scummy, and it just so happens you're who I think is scum right now. That's not OMGUS, that's voting in the direction I think will cause the scum to take a hit.
I said on bb. Read the post.
I was just as confused about Celever as you were when he said that.
Great. That stil doesn't affect the connection.
- If you mean calculated, I usually spend a solid half hour making posts since they're usually long for me. This is normal in games across Superheroes-Present but there's not a way to confirm this so suspicion here is fine. Overexplaining is also normal for me.
- There's no use in arguing this.
- I think it's hysterical that he likes to call me out for it then goes and does it himself.
- See above.
You are using WIFOM to make your point. He's treating WIFOM as useless, like it is.
Was replying to the part that was like "only 2 votes were there there's no need to unvote" part.

The mental mindset, and action while similar are still two different things, which is why I distinguished it. Your mindset can change easily but it has little to do with your actual actions if you're good (and NP is good).

He was (attempting to be) humorous as scum in Superheroes, and in no way does this rule him out. I don't think him attempting to be funny is indicative of alignment.
 
##UNVOTE: Professor Palutena
##VOTE: lord o da rings

If anyone believes I am a townie, please do this. Even if you read Lorde as neutral, it's almost surely her or me, and you need to vote out the person you consider more scummy. If you believe we are both townies, just trust that I can contribute more than Lorde can.
If you decide to vote me, consider why, so you can learn from your mistakes next time. Did you listen to that one contradiction? If you did, you should consider that Cel contradicted more than I did. Did you lynch me because of an aggressive playstyle? If so, you should learn to judge based on actions, not playstyles. Did you lynch me because of something else? If I never got a chance to defend against it, how can you be sure it couldn't have been easily explained. If I get lynched, I want you to think of what fallacies may have been in your argument, so you don't commit them again.
My reads are similar to those earlier today, except that which I explained. Tomorrow, look at them. They can give you a good springboard to build upon.
Also, I may as well tag people who could save me:
@rainyman123
@Jadethepokemontrainer
@mirdo
@scattered mind
@Ice Espeon
@PikaMasterJesi
@mordacazir
 
If you vote for either @NinjaPenguin or @Lord o da rings you should consider why. Also, everyone should vote someone. If you do not vote someone, you are both a deadweight and ultimately not contributing, and it gives the scum an easy way to hide. If you really don't want to vote either NP or lorde, than vote someone else, although I'd like to point out that you aren't really contributing to the lynch by off-voting.
 
Silly fingers typing without rereading, i meant to say few pages of random voting
Unless you really want to read up the context, I suggest beginning here if you're lower on time. There's also about 12 hours (?) to go before the Day ends, so keep that in mind, and you really need to be able to confidently vote by the Day end. The main lynch options have been NP, lorde and Prof P. scattered mind gave a pretty good summary of the NP case on the page I linked, and then on the next couple of pages, you'll find the lorde case and the Prof P slip discussion. Fast forward, Prof P claimed and the general consensus is that he's telling the truth, so it's looking to be between NP and lorde.
 
After reading the cases, SM's case onNP seems more logical to agree with,
##Vote :NinjaPenguin

since i felt like the case on lorde feel more like no redirecting attention from himself.
 
After reading the cases, SM's case onNP seems more logical to agree with,
##Vote :NinjaPenguin

since i felt like the case on lorde feel more like no redirecting attention from himself.
It was actually Celever's case, SM just represented it since Celever was not doing it himself.

What do you agree with about NP's case?

I'm not quite following the bolded part (who is 'himself')? If you mean lorde; the case on lorde is actually about WIFOM and tone mostly.
 
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