Why do you think Celever is scum? Why is it worth lynching an experienced player and contributer because it could give a better read on other players?
Finished Mafia XLI: Fight for the Dazzling Star ~ Game Over!
- Thread starter NinjaPenguin
- Start date
- Status
Yeah, I checked the vote count and it's either scattered or rainy with the voteweight.
Oh, also, mirdo brought up a good point that I'd forgetten about.
Scum don't have voteweights of 3, unless they're an independent scum. They barely ever have voteweights of 2. It's a terrible balancing decision if a scum had a vote weight of 3, except in ultra high power games. They would win so easily if they did.
One of my earlier posts explains it a bit and i want to elaborate on that but i can't right now. League Cup (The Hague)
Do you remember when you posted this? e.g. What was the context/what was happening at the time?
This wagon has brought up three great candidates:
@simsands - He just popped up out of nowhere with 24 hours left and suddenly pushed for Celever. This is extremely anti-town, as along with the people wagoning behind it, as it pressures town - especially the less confident - to make hasty decisions in a short time, especially if you disagree with the lynch. Why weren't you, simsands, around before that, such as when Celever was being pursued by scattered?
@PikaMasterJesi - They've been sticking to their guns on Celever being "strange" even despite people like myself saying that this is false. Tunnel, tunnel, tunnel.
@Lord o da rings - Same deal as Jesi - tunnelling, plus exaggerating.
I think Jesi is the weakest out of these three simply because Jesi normally does scummy things. It's a very weak "defense" (for lack of better word), but it's enough for me to be less confident in her lynch.
##VOTE: simsands because Celever has already put a three vote-weight start on lorde.
@simsands - He just popped up out of nowhere with 24 hours left and suddenly pushed for Celever. This is extremely anti-town, as along with the people wagoning behind it, as it pressures town - especially the less confident - to make hasty decisions in a short time, especially if you disagree with the lynch. Why weren't you, simsands, around before that, such as when Celever was being pursued by scattered?
@PikaMasterJesi - They've been sticking to their guns on Celever being "strange" even despite people like myself saying that this is false. Tunnel, tunnel, tunnel.
@Lord o da rings - Same deal as Jesi - tunnelling, plus exaggerating.
I think Jesi is the weakest out of these three simply because Jesi normally does scummy things. It's a very weak "defense" (for lack of better word), but it's enough for me to be less confident in her lynch.
##VOTE: simsands because Celever has already put a three vote-weight start on lorde.
@scattered mind You were looking at this thread about 30 minutes ago, but no post?
I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about, morda, but it looks like you disagree? Sure, Celever might be doing some things that he did in games as scum... but that means nothing if Celever was just really good at replicating his town play (at least, I think he's pretty good at it)! It'd mean you're basically lynching him for being town. That's why you need to look at both town and scum games.
I mentioned earlier that I've been busy. I did show up during scattered's pressure to point out scummy plays made by Celever, but that has still gone mostly unnoticed.
While I'll go look that up, why do you think that those scumtells that you posted are actually indication of Celever's alignment?
Was doing that during a lesson. I am not sure about the case on Celever. It is based on his odd behavior, which is so subjective, since some see that as odd and others like you see that as common. Also good point about the 3 VW, even though I don't like make decisions based on guessing what went on the host's mind. I was thinking about Mirdo as an alternative lynch, but you think he's townie, so I don't see any other option but lynching Celever, in these few hours we have left. Your point on simsands is too late. I don't like quick lynching without letting a person response, even though he actually managed to respond- that response is very legit imo, and matches what I thought, and remembered of him.
D1 cases are hardly ever good, this is what we got. There is no good alternative that would be ok by majority in this time frame.
Also- The point about at least not lynching an experienced player is moot here, since Celever's playstyle is not helpful at all this game, regardless of alignment. At least in my opinion, there is playing aggressive, and there is playing aggressive in an inappropriate way.
Do you mean this? I wouldn't say that's pointing out scummy plays at all. You named a game, that's it. I could say that your play reminds me of your play in ORAS, but that means nothing without actually pointing anything out.
I think Celever does the things that I have pointed out, but to a lesser extent, as town.
Oh yeah, that too, but I was thinking about the morda being scum thing.
See that twisted answer? I don't like it. Very similar to what happened with TSM after I countered his accession on me. TSM is a walking sub out, but mirdo is not. What do you think?
I see that point as pretty neutral. He did say dodgy, not dodging.
That's all what I got aside from Celever. Like I said, I would add TSM, but he is going to be subbed probably.
The thing is, I don't like quick lynching either. However, it is much better to quick lynch someone who might be scum than apathetically lynch someone who (at least in my opinion) is quite likely town. There's enough time for people like simsands, lord o and Jesi to respond to pressure and for the town to make a decision based off that.
That first sentence is a bit of a cop out...
Lyncing an inexperienced player is a much less important factor. If I strongly thought that an experienced player is scum, I probably will vote for their lynch. While I agree that Celever's OMGUSy behaviour is not great, that doesn't exclude him from being helpful. If Celever's being OMGUSy, it's up to the town to figure out whether or not it's legitimate.
This is a safe response that doesn't actually help anyone. Noone (including Celever) can actually disagree (or agree) with you because you haven't specified anything. Please point these things out again, and how it's to a greater extent.
Huh? You specified that it was Celever's playstyle is like that in Order of the Court, so I don't know what morda's got to do with it.
Was the post I quoted what you were referring to when you say "you showed up during scattered's pressure to point out scummy plays made by Celever?", here? Because if so, that post doesn't actually point out any scummy plays, and if that's so, then what you posted to defend yourself is pretty much moot.
"Dodgy" means pretty much what mirdo said, "weird". "Dodging" is different, it's "avoiding". I can see how mirdo would've used "dodge" but meant "dodgy", partially because I sometimes used "dodge" to mean "odd/weird", partially because English is mirdo's second language.
TSM appears to be having some recent bursts of activity and may not be subbed out because of that, so I certainly wouldn't bet on it.
It's just from how I remember him playing as town... That's the best I've got right now.
No, I meant that the post that I was referring to was when I pointed out the scummyness in Celever's push against morda.
I am standing behind the lynch- it is the best option so far. Pretty much the only reason I am having serious second thoughts is the 3 VW point. And I hate to base today's lynch on hosting reading. The other point about Celever being the same in other games is totally subjective. So is the opposite, but what is not subjective is that he has kept a low profile, and is not contributing like normal. The fact that he did not attempt to defend himself or offer an alternative is also weird. I just said that after all - as a general rule- a case cannot be perfect-especially during D1, so we can't throw it away just because one point that doesn't match perfectly (like the 3 VW).
Yeah I got it. English is also not my mother tongue, so I didn't know it also could mean that.
Actually, if I'm not wrong there are no subs.. So the only option would be to modkill him, but then there is cypher333 that is probably going to be modkilled first. So, wait, I'll check some posts.
There is Haunted Water, but there's not two subs.
- Status