Discussion Best Partner/Way to Run Zoroark GX?

Discussion in 'PTCG Competitive Play' started by HouchinsDJ, Oct 6, 2017.

  1. HouchinsDJ Aspiring Trainer
    HouchinsDJ

    Member

    So with the release of Shining Legends today, I figured we should take a look at the set's most competitive card, Zoroark GX. I'm sure we'll probably have to wait until we get a Regional or two with Shining Legends being legal to get a good idea as to how to best run Zoroark GX, but for the sake of discussion I'm interested in what you all think is the best fit for Zoroark GX. I'm going to be trying it out in different decks but I think Alolan Ninetales, Golisopod, and Lycanroc seem to be solid partners.
     


  2. GekkisaiDaiNi #GekkiLogic/#GekkiFails
    GekkisaiDaiNi

    Member

    I've tested Ninetales with Zoroark on TCGO and it's gone pretty well; I think it is one of the better partners for Zoroark. Zoroark/Golisopod is also something I'm looking into (but I still need a second Zoroark) and I have high hopes for it. Lycanroc is interesting, but with Bulu and Golisopod both being really common right now, I don't think its the best Zoroark partner. In Expanded, I think Zoroark GX/Night March and Zoroark GX/Vespiquen have some potential as well.
     
  3. HouchinsDJ Aspiring Trainer
    HouchinsDJ

    Member

    I agree. I've played a couple matches with Ninetales and Golisopod. They both have their merits but so far I'm leaning a little more towards Golisopod. Lycanroc's weakness did cross my mind, but I included it in my post due to it's strong showing at the recent Japanese Regionals. I also considered Drampa but I feel like the weakness to Fighting, while not too bad at the moment, could become bad with Buzzwole coming out.
     
  4. Duo Dreaming of a Milotic GX
    Duo

    Member

    I hate to say this, but I think Gardevoir GX/Zoroark GX is the best pairing for several reasons.

    1. Gardevoir has a natural tech in Gallade which can easily OHKO opposing Zoroark GXs. As a non-GX with 150 HP, there's nothing your opponent can do to OHKO with Zoroark GX. They both cost a DCE, and Gallade will always come out on top. It can take out 2 Zoroarks in its lifespan.

    2. Zoroark GX makes Gardevoir's only bad match up, Metagross, go from abyssmal to highly favorable. Zoroark GX can 2 hit KO Metagrosses much easier and much quicker with much higher consistency than Metagross GX can respond with 2 hit KOs. The only way Metagross can beat Zoroark GX is accessing 3 to 4 max potions at the right times.

    3. Secret Spring can instantly charge up a Zoroark GX in one turn even if you brick on energy. Not even something like Aqua Patch or Max Elixir can help you if you're late on energy. Gardevoir GX can instantly charge Zoroark GX if it's the attacker of choice.

    4. Diancie. I know a lot of people don't like this card as much more than a 1 of, but I still run 2. With Diancie, Gardevoir GX is the best fairy deck that also has the best way to guarantee Zoroark GX by the 2nd turn of the game without having to use Ultra Ball or Beaconing and praying for no N. Simply having draw power earlier gives you more of an advantage in terms of how quickly you can find your resources. Also, not having to grab Zoroark GX with Ultra Ball saves 2 discards. It's VERY hard to find 3 resources you want to discard on the same turn if you plan on doing Ultra Ball -> Trade. Your hand will not always survive that sort of sequencing.

    5. Gardevoir's only problem is having no energy efficient way to handle 2 hit KOs. It has the easiest time taking OHKOs, but it HAS to OHKO to be worth it (which is true of any deck trying to OHKO). You always have to commit 3 to 4 energy and a choice band in order to swing for 2 hit KOs whether with a Lele or a Gardevoir, but now you have an attacker who can 2 hit KO everything with a choice band and 2 energy with a single DCE or a single Secret Spring.

    I'd say that covers most of it. Ultimately, when you make the "best" deck even better, it just puts it even higher towards the top, IMO.

    Alolan Ninetales GX/Zoroark GX is my 2nd pick for a Zoroark GX partner in our meta, running a copy of Tapu Fini as well. Nine Ark (I'm just going to call it Nine Ark for short if no one minds) has the best combination of spread, single target, and bench damage with the most efficient engine available. Zoroark GX and playing the Mind Jack Zoroark gives Alolan Ninetales something that it always lacked - an energy efficient way for 1 and 2 hit KOs. Ice Blade & Blizzard Edge requires you to have had 3 to 4 energy and a choice band cycle through one Ninetales, and even taking out a single Tapu Lele GX requires 3 energy cards and a choice band to pass through which is really expensive because of the discard cost as well. You now have much easier mathematics with much higher efficiency, and no matter how your oppponent retreats, if they can't heal off a 150 Riotous Beat and some flying flips, you can start KOing bench for prize advantage with Ice Blade. And just like Gardevoir, Nine Ark no longer has to play awkwardly to get around Metagross GX.

    I don't think Zoroark GX/Lycanroc GX will have large representation in our meta as long as Golisopod & Bulu have presence. Especially Golisopod. You do not want to be moving around Pokemon against a deck that wants to move around Pokemon. Lycanroc exists only to OHKO Zoroark GX's. The Lysandre ability is really good, but it only matters if you're bringing up something to OHKO or something you think will absolutely stall your opponent for at least 1 turn. That's really hard to guarantee with 3 lele 3 guzma in every deck.

    I'm not really sure about Golisopod/Zoroark. To me it just seems like 2 different ways to hit 120 + 30 with choice band with more consistency than the Garbodor build. If anything I would say it would be the fastest deck that wins on speed and single energy attachments the whole game. I'm just worried about its damage ceiling against set up decks that can OHKO.
     
    GekkisaiDaiNi likes this.
  5. Xeynid Aspiring Trainer
    Xeynid

    Member

    Spread damage.

    Obviously without lele promo, there are some issues, but you can use Zoroark with Crozma/meowstic to handle decks focused on basic GX/EX's and Espeon/Koko/crozma/meowstic to handle evolution pokemon.

    Probably with Elixirs for energy acceleration to get crozma ready faster.
     
  6. Jacktropolis Aspiring Trainer
    Jacktropolis

    Member

    I picked up 2 Zoroark GXs today and I already can say I don't think Golisopod GX is his best partner....it's good and efficient but they kinda do they same thing(120 for a single energy attachment) Ninetales/Lycanroc GX could both work.....I think we'll just have to see what deck emerges and in the meantime I plan on using him with some non meta partners like Umbreon GX, just for fun
     
  7. Arizaiaz Aspiring Trainer
    Arizaiaz

    Member

    Only time will tell, but I'm backing Ninetales/Zoroark to do well. They seem to have great synergy together.
     
  8. Duo Dreaming of a Milotic GX
    Duo

    Member

    This came to me as I was about to fall asleep, but why not Zoroark GX/Decidueye GX?

    You can feather arrow from bench and deal easy 210 damage per turn with Choice Banded full bench Riotous Beat. Stack that with Flying Flips early in the game and early game target selection and you have a fast but tanky deck that can scale up to OHKOs in the late game with just a single DCE. The loss of speed from losing FOGP is replaced with the sheer consistency of Zoroark GX. Early game speed, end game massive damage with ridiculous resistance to Gardevoir GX.

    Plus, Hallow Hunt GX syergizes stupidly well with Trade, and the fact that you want 3 Decidueye GX on your bench to feather arrow gives you 3 practically unkillable targets for your Riotous Beat. There is a crap ton of synergy here with efficient scaling.

    I'm going to work on a list for this.
     
  9. GekkisaiDaiNi #GekkiLogic/#GekkiFails
    GekkisaiDaiNi

    Member

    I agree a little bit here, but you do still have Crossing Cut-GX as well as the BKT Zoroark which can hit 180 and 190 with Band, respectively. I feel like Umbreon/Zoroark would have the same problem as Golisopod/Zoroark. Maybe Drampa/Zoroark to fix the OHKO problem?
    Can't wait to see this list, it sounds great!

    Also, I started testing Zoroark/Vespiquen in Expanded, and it's insanely good. Zoroark can hit 180 turn two with Sky Field, it helps discard more Pokémon and draw at the same time, and when Sky Field gets bumped-surprise! 30 more damage for Vespiquen. If you get Karened, they just gave you more Pokémon to bench for Zoroark. Basically, you take early K.Os with Zoroark, then Vespiquen does 200+ torwards the end of the game.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  10. jix99 Imagine if Pichu was in splatoon :D
    jix99

    Member

    In Japan the best Zoroark partners that are winning in Japan are actually more of Zoroark decks! Like there was this weird psychic tollbox deck along with a sky field lycanrock gx strategy. But to answer the question who is the best partner I can basically say everyone because it's that useful! But if you wan't my opinion on waht's the best deck to use it with I would probably say golisopd because you can now run a 1 of of the breakthrough for that nice switch effect. But I feel the card that gains the most (even though it's not an amazing deck) would be Darkrai EX/GX because first you dont exactly have a viable gx move and Zoroark has one for it but two it helps with getting your gx's in the discard pile making Darkrai possibly once again viable!
     
  11. Y-Guy3 Aspiring Trainer
    Y-Guy3

    Member

    I don’t think that the results in Japan reflect what it will be like in America, because their format is very different, and includes xy-on, they can use sky field and the metagames is different.
     
  12. jix99 Imagine if Pichu was in splatoon :D
    jix99

    Member

    Fair enough but this can still reflect on the expanded format a bit.
     
    Y-Guy3 likes this.
  13. Mack Dabson Ur mom likes my pokemon
    Mack Dabson

    Member

    Decidueye
     
  14. HouchinsDJ Aspiring Trainer
    HouchinsDJ

    Member

    I appreciate all the responses so far! After a bit of testing, I don't think Golisopod/Zoroark is too viable. As someone pointed out, they kinda do the same thing damage-wise. Sure Crossing Cut can get you a OHKO, but it's a one-time use. I think after trying out Zoroark, I noticed that it should be paired with something that can get OHKOs easier to compensate for Zoroark's limited damage ceiling. I haven't done enough testing with Ninetales/Zoroark, but I could see it working since Ninetales does have that OHKO potential.

    What has been working for me is Drampa/Zoroark. It's much more straightforward because Drampa is a Basic so you only have to focus on getting Zoroark out. Drampa also has consistent OHKO potential. Since Fighting-types aren't huge in the Meta at the moment, you don't have to worry about poor type match-ups as much, although that may change when Buzzwole releases next month. Only time will tell.

    I haven't been able to test it yet, but I do think that Zoroark/Decidueye could be amazing. Between Tapu Koko's Flying Flip, Decidueye's Feather Arrow, and Espeon EX, you have a deadly combination that can completely dismantle Gardevoir and Metagross decks. A full bench Choice Banded Riotous Beating with 3 Feather Arrows hits 210 which is enough to KO Golisopod and Ninetales for a single DCE. My biggest concern for the deck would be getting mulitple Decidueye out consistently, but if you're ale to do it, I don't see this deck losing that much.
     
  15. jix99 Imagine if Pichu was in splatoon :D
    jix99

    Member


    In expanded Aaron Tarbell did really well at daytona regionals using golisopod zoroark so just tech in a a gx or 2 add a few zorua's and it's totally viable!
     
  16. HouchinsDJ Aspiring Trainer
    HouchinsDJ

    Member

    I'll have to take a look at his list. Expanded is a whole different ballgame because you have access to Sky Field, which allows Zoroark GX to hit high damage numbers. Not having any consistent OHKO options makes Golisopod/Zoroark less viable in Standard in my opinion. I could be wrong. Maybe I'm just not playing the deck correctly, but Gardevoir rips it apart because it's easy to stack 4 energy and a Choice Band on a Garedoir to OHKO your Zoroark GX with a DCE. And since you have no way to OHKO that Gardevoir, it's most likely taking out a Golisopod or another Zoroark next turn. I love Golisopod and I love Zoroark but right now I'm not convinced they work well together in the current format.
     
  17. uncleyuri

    Member

    I don't really like it in any of the standard decks. Problem is no sky field. Gardy/Zoroark seems ok but setting up has to go great... I think Gardy Octillary is better. I don't like it in Ninetales at all. I'd rather spread with Koko and use Ninetales. In Golisopod...I'd rather just attack with Golisopod. Yes there is synergy with baby Zoroark but I'd rather just max out Acerola/Guzma and use Octillary really.

    Now expanded on the other hand.... this deck is busted. It doesn't need a partner it's the main attacker. 4 zorua and a 3/1 GX- baby Zoroark split. Max out Sky Field and run a couple of Exeggcute with propagation. Toss in a couple Shaymin and Lele each for draw support and to fill your bench. You'll need a couple rescue stretchers to repopulate your bench and I also love Acerola in this deck as well. Propagation is nuts in this deck abusing the GX's ability and refilling your bench to hit big numbers.
     
  18. HouchinsDJ Aspiring Trainer
    HouchinsDJ

    Member

    I agree. There hasn't been a Standard deck that I've tried yet where Zoroark GX took it to the next level. A lot of people, myself included, felt that it was going to replace Octillery as the new standard draw support Pokemon, but I do think that Octillery is better in many decks that already run it. Who knows, we might see a deck that the next Standard Regional that'll change my mind. It's still a fantastic card and I agree that's busted in Expanded though!
     
  19. uncleyuri

    Member

    Also might as well start running Alolan Muk in it now as well. Eventually sudowodoo will prob be a 1 of in every expanded deck as a hard counter.
     
  20. Duo Dreaming of a Milotic GX
    Duo

    Member

    I'd actually be more worried about Parallel City than Sudowoodo. It chops your opponent's bench even smaller than sudowoodo and doesn't take up a bench space so you still have full 5 to work with.

    The reason why I don't care for Sky Field is because field blower and Parallel City lead to a lot of waste. Sky Field is great in mathematics, but only if you're willing to take the risk of having it get field blowered after you finally got your bench up to 8 Pokemon. Plus, Sky Fielding just give your opponent so much room to drop down leles and search for supporters, like Skyla, to grab their field blower and knock out your Sky Field or whatever play they want really. They don't care about squeezing out an extra lele on their own bench - it served its purpose. Plus, Sky Field works both ways so it simply enables the mirror match. I understand that it's the obvious card to play with an attack like Zoroark GX, but it's incredibly costly and you cannot recover from it unless you're sitting on 2 Rescue Stretchers when it happens. If your sky field gets field blowered, you have to squeeze out 3 Pokemon, and if it gets stadium warred by a Parallel City, then you drop 5 Pokemon straight into discard. It's just an incredibly frail strategy.

    I'm actually thinking Parallel City is going to become more of a staple than Zoroark GX because now there's an incredibly good reason to run it, both in standard and expanded. I'm thinking about succumbing to the Sylveon GX builds of Gardevoir GX so I can also run Parallel City. Drop city to knock off 2 Pokemon, Plea GX to knock off 2 more.

    Something I've found very interesting about Zoroark GX is that it's actually a terrible attacker. It's a terrible attacker because you never want it to get KO'd. Other attackers, when they get KO'd, you're simply losing an attacker. Zoroark GX you're losing an attacker and consistency, and each KO hurts a lot more since you also rely on that Zoroark GX for draw power to recover. You must have 2 on the field at all times if you plan on using it as an attacker, otherwise you lock yourself out after a single KO.

    I was really hyped for Zoroark GX for a while, and I still think that Decidueye GX/Zoroark GX is one of the better builds that utilize it, but even in that deck I'm starting to consider dropping Zoroark GX to a 2/2 line from a 3/3 line as primarily draw supporter and secondary attacker as opposed to primary attacker, and throw in more techs.
     

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