I really don't get why Zoroark is a big deal when you can just Sudowoodo or Parallel City your problems away.
Discussion Best Partner/Way to Run Zoroark GX?
- Thread starter HouchinsDJ
- Start date
I have to agree that the current Standard format doesn't really let Zoro GX shine yet - like others, I tried it with Ninetales GX as an Octillery replacement but the results have only been sort of okay-ish. Discarding water energy for 2 additional cards and then patching the energies back on to a Ninetales is ok I guess. Mallow synergy is good but Octillery was able to do that too.
On the other hand, I loooove how it functions in Expanded, especially with Vespiquen
The discard synergy is great and both Vespi and Zoro can make use of a Flareon or a Vaporeon tech. And Vespi can hit some fighting 'mons for weakness that would be a threat to Zoro.
I can also see it having good synergy with Darkrai EX, GX and Dark Patch. I've even made a semi-competitive "dark box" centered around DEX Zoroark, Zoro GX and Sky Field plus DEX Darkrai for free retreat, 1 STS Yveltal for additional energy acceleration next to the Patches and 1 Yveltal EX to try to counter the fighting weakness and stuff that likes to ramp energy. It's mostly been fun but I do think that the Zoro-Vespi combo is superior.
I also tried using Zoro GX with Chandelure STS in Expanded for additional discard utility which I also found to be ok. I'm also wondering if it could be used in an Expanded version of Weavile/Eggs.
On the other hand, I loooove how it functions in Expanded, especially with Vespiquen
The discard synergy is great and both Vespi and Zoro can make use of a Flareon or a Vaporeon tech. And Vespi can hit some fighting 'mons for weakness that would be a threat to Zoro.I can also see it having good synergy with Darkrai EX, GX and Dark Patch. I've even made a semi-competitive "dark box" centered around DEX Zoroark, Zoro GX and Sky Field plus DEX Darkrai for free retreat, 1 STS Yveltal for additional energy acceleration next to the Patches and 1 Yveltal EX to try to counter the fighting weakness and stuff that likes to ramp energy. It's mostly been fun but I do think that the Zoro-Vespi combo is superior.
I also tried using Zoro GX with Chandelure STS in Expanded for additional discard utility which I also found to be ok. I'm also wondering if it could be used in an Expanded version of Weavile/Eggs.
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Well the first thing is almost no decks in standard play either right now, more so Sudowoodo than Parallel City. I haven't seen a single meta relevant deck since rotation play Sudowoodo.
Second thing is that the draw ability is the biggest reason to include it.
The biggest thing shutting down Zoroark GX right now is....wait for it.....Gardevoir GX! It resists dark by 20, and it has Gallade to OHKO all Zoroark GXs. And the most recent top lists of Gardevoir GX are running Sylveon GX and Parallel City, which destroy your bench size.
Our meta just isn't structured correctly for Zoroark GX to be a main attacker. Only practical use I can see it in right now is Gardevoir GX for the Metagross match up while giving you draw power in every other match up. Looks like another year of Gardy decks.
Second thing is that the draw ability is the biggest reason to include it.
The biggest thing shutting down Zoroark GX right now is....wait for it.....Gardevoir GX! It resists dark by 20, and it has Gallade to OHKO all Zoroark GXs. And the most recent top lists of Gardevoir GX are running Sylveon GX and Parallel City, which destroy your bench size.
Our meta just isn't structured correctly for Zoroark GX to be a main attacker. Only practical use I can see it in right now is Gardevoir GX for the Metagross match up while giving you draw power in every other match up. Looks like another year of Gardy decks.
Well that's Japan, and they have all of XY at their disposal for standard format. That changes a lot. Hex Maniac alone shuts down a lot of our current big decks. Tapu Bulu, Volcanion EX, Gardevoir GX, Metagross GX, Decudieye GX (not really relevant right now), and she makes Garbodor variants pretty much pointless with VS Seeker + Hex Maniac. Everyone has access to ability lock without running any Garbodors.
Being able to deal a stable 120 damage even in the presence of Hex Maniac gives it a pretty big lead against all of those other decks who need their abilities to accelerate damage.
Being able to deal a stable 120 damage even in the presence of Hex Maniac gives it a pretty big lead against all of those other decks who need their abilities to accelerate damage.
The thing about Zoroark is that it's so versatile. If you don't need it to attack, it can sit in your bench and draw you a lot of cards. If you happen to need a medium sized cheap attack, Zoroark is perfect. And it also draws cards while doing that!
I think Zoroark-GX as the main attacker doesn't work. As a supporting attacker in a deck that runs DCE and already plays Octillery, you gain so much utility over playing Octillery.
If you didn't run or need octillery to start with, I wouldn't play it.
I think Zoroark-GX as the main attacker doesn't work. As a supporting attacker in a deck that runs DCE and already plays Octillery, you gain so much utility over playing Octillery.
If you didn't run or need octillery to start with, I wouldn't play it.
Japan's Standard format is XY-on so you can't use their format as an example. They still have access to Sky Field, which absolutely makes a difference in Zoroark's ability to be a main attacker. Sorry, but being damaged capped at 120 before any damage modifiers is not enough to be a main attacker in this format.
You just said one of the most popular decks right now (Golisopod GX/Anything) is unplayable. 120 for one energy on a beefy Stage 1 has already been proven to be good; and Zoroark needs less to work than Golisopod and comes with built-in consistency.
I'm not saying that at all. You're leaving out the fact that Zoroark GX NEEDS a completely full bench just to hit 120 damage, so your argument is completely flawed.
Lele for Bridgette, then bench one more Pokémon. It's not hard.
Maybe, maybe not. You can't assume that you're going to have a full bench throughout the entire game. Zoroark's ability is consistent, but it's damage output is not.
Agreed; but the same goes for Golisopod, and if you don't have a full bench for Zoroark, you suffer a lot less then you would if you didn't switch Goli out of the active.
My point exactly.
When Duo said that our format isn't structured for Zoroark to be a main attacker, you responded with:
"lol tell that to the people in Japan running Zoroark as their main Pokemon!"
So I don't know what you mean by your point exactly, when your point was proven wrong.
Between running 3-4 copies of Acerola, Guzma, and Float Stone, Golisopod typically doesn't have an issue switching out of the active. It also has two other attacks that can be utilized if it can't be switched out. My point is that in a format that doesn't have access to Sky Field anymore, Zoroark GX is a poor MAIN attacker. It's a great back-up attacker with a great ability, I don't think anyone can argue otherwise, but it's damage ceiling is limited and completely reliant on your board state.
I know you really like being right, so allow me to lay it out for ya:When Duo said that our format isn't structured for Zoroark to be a main attacker, you responded with:
"lol tell that to the people in Japan running Zoroark as their main Pokemon!"
So I don't know what you mean by your point exactly, when your point was proven wrong.
From my experience with the deck, Zoroark just doesn't work out as a main attacker. I've come across too many Gallades than I'd hoped for, and like I said earlier, Sudowoodo and Parallel City make it too easy to limit the attack power. If anything, it makes an ok support Pokemon, especially when you have a whole chain of them.
With this knowledge, and being in agreement with what you said, I was pretty surprised to find that Zoroark was a thing in Japan. I was not aware of the format difference.
So no, I wasn't proven wrong. That never happens
I know you really like being right, so allow me to lay it for ya:
From my experience with the deck, Zoroark just doesn't work out as a main attacker. I've come across too many Gallades than I'd hoped for, and like I said earlier, Sudowoodo and Parallel City make it too easy to limit the attack power. If anything, it makes an ok support Pokemon, especially when you have a whole chain of them.
With this knowledge, and being in agreement with what you said, I was pretty surprised to find that Zoroark was a thing in Japan. I was not aware of the format difference.
So no, I wasn't proven wrong. That never happens
Nice passive aggressive post.
You do know that this is supposed to be a discussion, right? Typically in a discussion people share their arguments. Just because my argument is supported by logic doesn't mean you need to rude about it.
And just because I'm right doesn't mean you need to be rude about itNice passive aggressive post.
You do know that this is supposed to be a discussion, right? Typically in a discussion people share their arguments. Just because my argument is supported by logic doesn't mean you need to rude about it.
And just because I'm right doesn't mean you need to be rude about it
But what are you right about exactly? You said yourself that you weren't aware that Japan's format was different from ours, meaning that you're basing your argument on something incorrect.
In any case, I'm not going to post passive aggressive remarks back and forth all day. It's really not that important. I do appreciate a good discussion though so if you feel like you can contribute to that then please do so. Have a nice day.
The more I think about it, having a bunch of Zoroark in play can, to an extent, substitute what we lost when Shaymin EX rotated.