Z/XY-Sequels ARE Generation 7

[Mitja]

I've come to the conclusion that I've limited myself to thinking based on generation 5 too much in regards to generation 6 speculation (in that Z-themed games would end generation 6 before we move on).

So let's take a few steps back.

The first Pokémon sequels we've seen, were Gold & Silver.
They took Generation I, its region, its Pokémon, its story, and expanded it all.
In other words, GS=Johto=Generation 2, did to RBY, what we've been expecting from XY-sequels to do to XY.

But there is nothing preventing Gamefreak from "finishing" generation 6 with the... 7th generation. It may sound contradictory, but it would explain a lot of things.

It would explain, why we're starting to get reveals of Pokemon that are not part of the current generation with no game-announcement in sight.
It would explain why Zygarde is not the star of Movie 19, but its "story" is instead still being stretched out in the regular anime for months to come.
It would explain why they decided to develop ORAS first, instead of doing it the gen4-way.
It would explain why ORAS was made with the consideration of making all Pokemon obtainable between the games of X/Y/OR/AS (which is done for each generation as a whole).
It would explain why they're distributing ALL mythical Pokemon of all 6 generations one after another for the coming 8 months.
...

Pack your bags folks, we're going to the neighbouring region of Kalos. (I have a feeling it might be kind of industrial and german~)

A new game, in a new region (and Kalos), with a new generation (new Pokémon), that also happens to delve into the story behind Zygarde et al in the post-game and "ties up" all the loose ends of Gen6 "in a unique way".


If there is a hole in this realization, point it out, so I can try to explain it (or see the thing fall apart of course )

 

[Bolt the Cat]

I can see several problems with that idea. For one, they probably wouldn't have enough time to really fix Kalos' problems, they'd basically be taking XY and tacking on a new region to it. And that wouldn't go over really well, since it'd be more along the lines of taking a bare game and dragging it out instead of fleshing it out, I can see a lot of fan backlash if that happens. There'd also be problems with pacing, you'd probably hit Lv. 100 before you even finish the second region, especially if you have the EXP Share on. Heck, I had the EXP Share on in X and I hit Lv. 80 by the time I beat the Pokemon League, and you want that to be the halfway point? You'd have to slow the pacing down tremendously to make that work, and I don't think they could really do that without the game feeling too boring and grindy. Lastly, if they add new starters and mascots they'd likely steal the show and Zygarde and company would feel like an afterthought. It's not impossible for them to do it that way, but the game simply wouldn't be as good if they tacked on another region.

 

[StarlightSearcher]

The whole two regions idea could work...if you are maybe forced to start a new team in the second region?

I mean when you play G/S/C/HG/SS, you do have the ability to create a new team when you are traveling through Kanto, although it is not required.

With the EXP Share item how broken it is, and even though you aren't required to use that either; your levels are going to be really high when it is time to head to that second region.

And unless they do something close to what HG/SS did (with the increased levels for the Kanto Trainers) this proposed second region would be just too easy to run roughshod over unless the levels are somewhat challenging, or there is that required party wipe/clean slate.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

The whole two regions idea could work...if you are maybe forced to start a new team in the second region?

I mean when you play G/S/C/HG/SS, you do have the ability to create a new team when you are traveling through Kanto, although it is not required.

They wouldn't do that. Forcing you to discard your favorite Pokemon just to make the pacing work would come off as too restrictive and unfair.

 

[StarlightSearcher]

They wouldn't do that. Forcing you to discard your favorite Pokemon just to make the pacing work would come off as too restrictive and unfair.

Then it's going to be too easy. A game with two regions from a gameplay standpoint is really good; but making sure the challenge steadily rises is a must. The second region needs to be challenging, otherwise it's going to be a total whitewash with no challenge whatsoever.

 

[Mitja]

I can see several problems with that idea. For one, they probably wouldn't have enough time to really fix Kalos' problems, they'd basically be taking XY and tacking on a new region to it. And that wouldn't go over really well, since it'd be more along the lines of taking a bare game and dragging it out instead of fleshing it out, I can see a lot of fan backlash if that happens. There'd also be problems with pacing, you'd probably hit Lv. 100 before you even finish the second region, especially if you have the EXP Share on. Heck, I had the EXP Share on in X and I hit Lv. 80 by the time I beat the Pokemon League, and you want that to be the halfway point? You'd have to slow the pacing down tremendously to make that work, and I don't think they could really do that without the game feeling too boring and grindy. Lastly, if they add new starters and mascots they'd likely steal the show and Zygarde and company would feel like an afterthought. It's not impossible for them to do it that way, but the game simply wouldn't be as good if they tacked on another region.

So #1=not enough time, #2=pacing/level curve, #3=gen7 taking spotlight from Zygarde.

#1
Considering that,
-it took them only a year from XY to ORAS
-we're looking at 2 years between ORAS and the next plausible release
-I'm assuming gen7 would not "reinvent the wheel", but simply continue using the same engine for 3ds (like BW)
should be enough. Of course the question then is how "quality" will it be, and the chances for a Battle Frontier drop into an ocean-trench, but it doesn't break the idea, as that's topics that come up with any entry.

#2
They've done it before, and they didn't think it was a problem when remaking that game either. And if they do now, then here's hoping they'll apply what they learned. Either way, also a feature that just needs to be implemented properly or it will make a crappy game for some players, which I don't see as a show-stopper.

#3
New starters wouldn't take the spotlight away from Zygarde (if anything, I'd feel bad that the Kalos-starters didn't ever get to be in the spotlight properly since the Mega Kanto-starters had to show up), new mascots however could, I agree. But it depends. Without knowing what the mascots would be, we cannot say. But even if it's 2 new opposite legendaries, what's preventing them from being related to Zygarde as well? (at least the orange/white/cyan hexagons on perfect Zs chest are still a curious feature). Or Zygarde somehow turns out to have 2 forms and those are the mascots, while the new generation merely adds a lesser regular legendary trio that's related to awakening Zygarde etc. Enough possibilities where Zygarde is not just a post-game gimmick otherwise unrelated to the core of the games.

 

[G-Panthera]

Hmm....I'd admit, this does sound like a swell idea and still covers a lot of stuff, and its unique, especially in the way of how Masuda wants Gen 6 to end on a unique note and it has never been done before. But both regions would have to be well balanced in terms of challenge.

Seeing as the GS remakes on the DS had some improvements over the original and had extra features/content, Gen 6 would have way more space to use on the more powerful 3DS if I'm correct, so it could technically work.

The only real bumps are these new starters, and potentially any new Legendary mascots. There's also the whole hint about Sugimori saying that the future of Pokémon had something to do with "flowers".

 

[professorlight]

(if anything, I'd feel bad that the Kalos-starters didn't ever get to be in the spotlight properly since the Mega Kanto-starters had to show up)

That is the best reason, in my opinion, to make a case for a continuation of gen 6 on the next game; kanto was all about presenting this brand new, revolutionary graphics system and nostalgia of how much the series advanced, to the point that the game development itself, and the poor starters got very little of the spotlight during the time the games were out. They have been making up for it now with the anime, movies, pokken, smash bros, and merchandise, but that's really no replacement for the moment the kanto starters took away from them. Which would fit if we were to get a second, expanded (hopefully, radically different) game where you actually begin with the kalos starters without distractions.

new mascots however could

I'm not sure they would add two other mascots, at all; xerneas, yveltal and zygarde are a perfectly closed trio, just like the weather trio before them; regardless of zygarde's forms (since they're more like expansions of zygarde's concept than new mascots) this is a trio that will most likely stay as it is, be it they continue the current generation, or they skip to the new one.

the new generation merely adds a lesser regular legendary trio

Now, this is very likely; one of the strangest things about the last generation was the lack of a trio. I wish to not see trios anymore, to be honest, but I'm unsure gamefreak thinks the same I do; it's more than likely that they didn't include them because they cut an entire half of the generation, and they had to go.


The only problem I see with expecting a second half of kalos is magiana; she's clearly a mythical pokemon, but we already have the usual three of those in kalos, so unless they're making her a victini-like 000 pokemon (and they could) that would be rather odd.
Do note that this argument applies for a completely new generation as well, however; when did they use a non-victini mythical pokemon to announce a new gen? that would point out to magiana being one, be it to gen 6.5 or gen 7.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

They've done it before, and they didn't think it was a problem when remaking that game either. And if they do now, then here's hoping they'll apply what they learned. Either way, also a feature that just needs to be implemented properly or it will make a crappy game for some players, which I don't see as a show-stopper.

There's nothing they can really do to make it work better is what I'm saying, which is probably why they did nothing about it in HGSS. If they speed up the pacing from GSCHGSS you'll hit Lv. 100 before you finish and then a good part of the challenge goes out the window at that point (especially since Game Freak doesn't do much about the AI). But if you keep it as slow as GSCHGSS then the first region's trainers are fairly low level and also not very challenging, and the lower levels can limit your selection since quite a few Pokemon don't evolve until they reach the 40's or 50's. There's really no way for a two region system to work well, there's some kind of pacing problem no matter how you go about doing it.

New starters wouldn't take the spotlight away from Zygarde (if anything, I'd feel bad that the Kalos-starters didn't ever get to be in the spotlight properly since the Mega Kanto-starters had to show up), new mascots however could, I agree. But it depends. Without knowing what the mascots would be, we cannot say. But even if it's 2 new opposite legendaries, what's preventing them from being related to Zygarde as well? (at least the orange/white/cyan hexagons on perfect Zs chest are still a curious feature). Or Zygarde somehow turns out to have 2 forms and those are the mascots, while the new generation merely adds a lesser regular legendary trio that's related to awakening Zygarde etc. Enough possibilities where Zygarde is not just a post-game gimmick otherwise unrelated to the core of the games.

Starters and mascots are a pretty major part of the marketing of a new generation, so if they are doing a Gen 7 they'll likely need to have new ones to convey to fans that this is a new generation. But then once they do, the 6th gen starters and mascots will be overshadowed because they won't be as new. This in my mind would be one of the key differences between Gen 6.5 and Gen 7, because with Gen 6.5 they'd still be promoting the major Pokemon from 6th gen and the new ones wouldn't be major enough to steal the show from them, whereas Gen 7 would pretty much completely discard the Gen 6 Pokemon and promote a new batch of Pokemon. If they want Zygarde to be a mascot, it only really makes sense to me to promote along with Gen 6.

 

[Mitja]

That is the best reason, in my opinion, to make a case for a continuation of gen 6 on the next game; kanto was all about presenting this brand new, revolutionary graphics system and nostalgia of how much the series advanced, to the point that the game development itself, and the poor starters got very little of the spotlight during the time the games were out. They have been making up for it now with the anime, movies, pokken, smash bros, and merchandise, but that's really no replacement for the moment the kanto starters took away from them. Which would fit if we were to get a second, expanded (hopefully, radically different) game where you actually begin with the kalos starters without distractions.

The only real bumps are these new starters, and potentially any new Legendary mascots. There's also the whole hint about Sugimori saying that the future of Pokémon had something to do with "flowers".

I would actually prefer it if generation 7 implemented in this unique way, would also be unique in NOT adding new starters, because I feel like "one very appealing set of 3-stage designs that had more thought invested into them than 90% of the other pokemon" is already ufnair towards the other types when it's done once in every ~130 pokemon.

And if we are being served 2 short complementary generations of ~70 pokemon each... it would actually fit well if this would not include new starters.
Sure starters are probably a bigger deal and a more loved concept, but the if gen6 lacked a regular legendary trio for the first time, it would be appropriate of gen7 lacked its very own starters....but people tore me down when I proposed "what if no Rattata clone some gen" before here and elsewhere so a no starters suggestion should get an even worse reaction I imagine XD

As for "flowers". Note that it was already a sublime theme throughout gen6 (Flabebes, city-names, etc.), but if "the future" is also about flowers, it could imply that the next step will be something that compliments gen-6.

Starters and mascots are a pretty major part of the marketing of a new generation, so if they are doing a Gen 7 they'll likely need to have new ones to convey to fans that this is a new generation. But then once they do, the 6th gen starters and mascots will be overshadowed because they won't be as new. This in my mind would be one of the key differences between Gen 6.5 and Gen 7, because with Gen 6.5 they'd still be promoting the major Pokemon from 6th gen and the new ones wouldn't be major enough to steal the show from them, whereas Gen 7 would pretty much completely discard the Gen 6 Pokemon and promote a new batch of Pokemon. If they want Zygarde to be a mascot, it only really makes sense to me to promote along with Gen 6.

Yes, it would be more appropriate to call all of this gen6.5, but then I realized that the official marketing would simply call it "new" regardless, hence why I'm calling this gen7 despite gen6.5 getting the point across better to fans in the current situation.

 

[Mitja]

This person here has summed it up so well that I'll stop explaining it myself for now xD: http://frozen-echo.deviantart.com/journal/Generation-VII-591645391

 

[signofzeta]

There will be a Pokemon Z that expands on the same region, and then there is another region that is attached to Kalos. This is Generation 7. The games are called Pokemon P and Pokemon D.

Later on, there will be a game that expands on that same region and it's called Pokemon Q.

 

[Metalizard]

I hope they make it a Gen 6.5... New region next to kalos (or expanding the region), new Pokémon but same starters with Megas (that's what Megas are for, it's the same pokémon, but now they would have an improvement) and focus on third legendary, Zygarde.

 

[Mitja]

I hope they make it a Gen 6.5... New region next to kalos (or expanding the region), new Pokémon but same starters with Megas (that's what Megas are for, it's the same pokémon, but now they would have an improvement) and focus on third legendary, Zygarde.

Yeah, but ask yourself "would they call that gen6 part2?". I mean, the definition of a new generation is as simple as "a bunch of new pokemon", and even if this would be just the second half to the pokemon we got in XY, there is no reason not to simply call it gen7.

 

[Orphalesion]

This person here has summed it up so well that I'll stop explaining it myself for now xD: http://frozen-echo.deviantart.com/journal/Generation-VII-591645391

A new region east of Kalos? Poke-Germany?

....I don't want a bratwurst Pokemon...

 

[Metalizard]

Yeah, but ask yourself "would they call that gen6 part2?". I mean, the definition of a new generation is as simple as "a bunch of new pokemon", and even if this would be just the second half to the pokemon we got in XY, there is no reason not to simply call it gen7.

hmm... I don't know... I don't think of a new generation as just "a bunch of new pokémon", although that is certainly one of the main reasons. Until Gen 5, I usually factored in the console system they were made for. Now I also put consideration in backwards compatibility. Gen 5 was also on the DS, but you could only send pokémon from Gen 4 to Gen 5 games and not the other way around. I know there's the weird case of Gen 2 and being able to send Gen 1 pokémon from GSC to RBGY (and there's definitely the possibility that they can do the same now for new games with PokéBank), but Gen 2 introduced more game mechanics and types and if I'm not wrong the game's engine is different. You also couldn't battle using Gen 2 games against Gen 1 games...

So basically, I guess the way i see it, a new gen is more about the games than the pokémon introduced. If the next games have most of these things together:

- New pokémon;
- Different game engine;
- Major changes in the battle system (things like: Special being split into Sp. Atk and Sp. Def; Abilities; Physical/Special split);
- New pokémon types, pokémon re-typing and/or changes to the pokémon's base stats; * Uncommon, hence why I said "most"
- Inability to battle between the new games and XY/ORAS.

I will consider it a new gen. Otherwise, I'll probably call it Gen 6.5, specially if they continue on where XY left off.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

I don't like it, but I do think that's what's happening now. Sun and Moon can't be anything but 7th gen, and the timing and existence of logos for the game lead me to believe these are real games that they're announcing tomorrow. That being said, I also think they're connected to Kalos. We know that Kalos has connections to other areas like Southern Kalos and wherever the Couriway Train Station goes. Plus it would also explain some of the other colors related to Zygarde Complete, including orange and a lighter blue. These two colors probably represent Sun/Moon's mascots. Then there's also the Anistar Sun Dial which may have some connection to Sun/Moon's lore. So yeah, I think we'll still be going to Kalos in 7th gen.

 

[slashman41]

....I don't want a bratwurst Pokemon...

I think deep within the recesses of the collective human subconscious, everyone wants a bratwurst Pokemon.

 

[Mitja]

hmm... I don't know... I don't think of a new generation as just "a bunch of new pokémon", although that is certainly one of the main reasons. Until Gen 5, I usually factored in the console system they were made for. Now I also put consideration in backwards compatibility. Gen 5 was also on the DS, but you could only send pokémon from Gen 4 to Gen 5 games and not the other way around. I know there's the weird case of Gen 2 and being able to send Gen 1 pokémon from GSC to RBGY (and there's definitely the possibility that they can do the same now for new games with PokéBank), but Gen 2 introduced more game mechanics and types and if I'm not wrong the game's engine is different. You also couldn't battle using Gen 2 games against Gen 1 games...

So basically, I guess the way i see it, a new gen is more about the games than the pokémon introduced. If the next games have most of these things together:

- New pokémon;
- Different game engine;
- Major changes in the battle system (things like: Special being split into Sp. Atk and Sp. Def; Abilities; Physical/Special split);
- New pokémon types, pokémon re-typing and/or changes to the pokémon's base stats; * Uncommon, hence why I said "most"
- Inability to battle between the new games and XY/ORAS.

I will consider it a new gen. Otherwise, I'll probably call it Gen 6.5, specially if they continue on where XY left off.

The question was what GFs definition of a new generation would be. They look at it more simple. Calling it 6.5 just raises questions that are unnecessary.
I mean, otherwise I'd agree to the reasoning of calling it 6.5...but then again, I realize, how can I really call 151-251 gen 2 instead of gen1.5.

 

[G-Panthera]

I'm with Mitja on this one now. Its likely going to be a new gen. Whenever a new region gets introduced, to me that equals a new gen by default. Other things such as new typings are more unlikely and rare in new Gens, hence I don't count them as a prequiste. Especially because right now, people are already speculating around "Oh Space/Cosmic type coming!" which is never going to happen, as we just had a new type in the form of Fairy. No way there's a new Type coming. The least you can expect is another new eeveelution if its made possible.

If this is Gen 7 and has connections with Kalos, I'm excited to find out what inspirations have been used for it. Will it continue on the Norse theme of XY or go with something way different and unexpected? I'm also going to expect new Starters as its becoming more and more unlikely for Gen 6.5. If so, there's going to be a great fun time again with people creating mock-ups/fakes of possible Starter evolutions here and there, with people becoming disappointed when the official evolutions aren't close to those of fanart made ones. Oh joy.