'World Down' and 'Legendary Heartbeat,' Japan's Summer Sets Introducing Amazing Rares!

Discussion in 'Pokémon Trading Card Game' started by Water Pokémon Master, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. Merovingian Dead Game Enthusiast
    Merovingian

    Articles Head Member

    FIGHT!

    Up to this point, they haven't. Almost all of Pokemon's consistency has been in the form of once-per-turn Supporters, or requiring a massive setup (multiple Zoroark-GX). Shaymin-EX has been sort of weird in Expanded, it's been ok. It's helped combo decks do their combo thing more consistently, but it's come to a head that can't be ignored anymore.

    Then we can address that problem 5 sets from now. In an ever growing format, banlists will always get bigger. I mean, look at Yugioh.

    There were complaints. Lots and lots of complaints. Look back last season at Zoro-Exodia. It was one of several cards pointed at as being a problem. Red Card and Delinquent were deemed the bigger problems at that time.

    TrevNoir hand lock got Top 8 at Dallas. And Turbo Dark was THE DECK to run for the event and looked like it would destroy TrevNoir effortlessly. And TrevNoir got Top 8. When SwSh came out, it was still one of the top decks to run. Now it's one of the only 2 decks you can run. The only thing it has in common with Turbo Donk: Shaymin-EX and Net. Without Shaymin, Net isn't Broken. There isn't a single deck that becomes busted and will dominate the meta in the same fashion as TrevNoir hand lock if Net stays unbanned.

    Additionally, Zoro Exodia was a "second turn hand lock" and that deck got destroyed by the banlist.

    And now with Crobat V, "Shaymin #5", the combo gets an ever bigger consistency boost if left untouched. Even if you banned Net, you could still use Super Scoop Up and the 1-of Scoop Up Cyclone (if you aren't already). The combo will still be viable.

    But honestly, Milotic will more than likely get a ban as well (as it's Ability lends to the idea that it was never expected to be used outside of EX-era).


    Multiple things will get hit, but Shaymin-EX is almost a shoe in.
     


  2. Gunther Spindler Aspiring Trainer
    Gunther Spindler

    Member

    Whats really screws up Raikou its that Metal energy on its cost, I mean, if it was (L)(G)(C) it would be acceptable on Expanded Ray or even Pikarom as 1 of, but now, only in decks with Counter Energy that already play either L,G or M.
     
  3. NicoNoo Meta/budget player
    NicoNoo

    Member

    Yeah I don't see why people are creaming themselves so much about the Raikou. Turbo Charger is a thing, but it's also a coin flip. Koko is a thing but it's also limited to 1 per deck, and are you really wasting your Koko in a 120 bench snipe? Max Elixir... I mean ok, if you can somehow manage to hit the right energy in your sequence in a deck with a triple-energy split. Vikavolt seems the best, but Vikavolt is already a clunky stage 2 line in a format where the opponent will go through half their deck in one turn and setup far more threatening attackers while you are stuck with your Vikavolt setup, IF you don't get locked or disrupted in any significant way beforehand.

    Unlike Rayquaza and Jirachi this doesn't have Metal Saucer and Black Belt to cheat out costs. So you are stuck running triple-energy splits.
     
  4. k0nod1od4 Aspiring Trainer
    k0nod1od4

    Member

    Scoop up net is the problem, not shaymin. It's like when island challenge amulet was banned, jirachi ex was in the format for years but island challenge amulet made jirachi broken, it's a similar situation with scoop up net and shaymin. I could also see scoop up net getting an errata so it can't pick up ex cards
     
    Emerfirek, Number51x and OVERGRO like this.
  5. NicoNoo Meta/budget player
    NicoNoo

    Member

    Zekrom is OK, 2 free paralysis for LLC is damn amazing and probably a tool that could be used to stall out in Boltund decks that already use Chuchu for the para. You guys need to remember that despite this being a format with 4 Switches and 4 Scoop Up Nets, you need to actually HIT said switch outlets to escape the condition. I have had many games where it comes down to me having a switch outlet against Chuchu but I get manhandled by a stray Marnie getting rid of my Switch copies in hand - which is why I have also taken to put Switch copies on top of the deck with Oranguru. The fact that it's not stuck to a stage 2 that needs additional conditions for the guaranteed paralysis makes it even better.

    Metagross is... eh? There are definitely better cards to run if you want to cheat retreat costs in almost any relevant deck and its attack is meh.
     
  6. Merovingian Dead Game Enthusiast
    Merovingian

    Articles Head Member

    There are distinct differences between Jirachi-EX VS Island Challenge Amulet and Shaymin-EX VS Scoop Up Net

    With Jirachi-EX and Island Challenge Amulet. Both cards were part of an integral hand lock combo. If you were to ban one over the other, there would be balance either way, especially since there weren't any other examples where either could be utilized--this was more of a "both are balanced on their own, but are problematic only together, so what do we do". The only thing I can think of is that TCPi will normally side with the Pokemon because people play the game for Pokemon--not odd hardly-used in-game Items that get printed as a Trainer.

    In the case of Shaymin-EX, it's been an enabler of problem combos in the past (Zoro-Exodia being the most recent example outside of the current meta). However, Zoro-Exodia only highlighted other cards that were a part of the larger combo that proved to be problematic.

    You don't need Scoop Up Net for TrevNoir or donk to be successful. Arguably, donk NEEDS Net in addition to Shaymin-EX to ramp out higher damage numbers with Galarian Zigzagoon. But TrevNoir got Top 8 at Dallas Regionals this year without Net. And it did it in a field of decks that could OHKO Trevnoir due to Weakness. TrevNoir would also see three Top-8 spots in Collinsville. Again, without Net. And even won the event.

    Arguably, Net makes the deck more consistent, but the deck arguably didn't NEED Net to function. It NEEDS Shaymin-EX to deep-draw.

    Pokemon doesn't like to ban Pokemon unless we have to. But it's at a point to where you either apply Occam's Razor and ban Shaymin-EX, or you ban well over a dozen cards to keep Shaymin-EX in format, only to have to re-address probably banning it later.

    As far as an errata goes. An erratta only works if you're in a game where you're reprinting cards constantly (Yugioh). The only cards that get reprinted constantly are Trainers and very very few times is an erratta issued (Pokemon Catcher). The only times Pokemon issues an errata seems to when theres a printing error (EVO Electrode and Cyrus Prism Star). Or when they reprint a card and want to make past versions of the card still playable (Quick Ball) because the text of the new one is newer and they don’t want to confuse people with 2 cards with the same name (don’t @ me with Power Plant). I don't think they have ever issued an errata because a card was problematic right out of the gates--they usually reserve that for banlists (Jessie & James, Chip-Chip Ice Axe, Reset Stamp).
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
  7. OVERGRO Pokemon is lyfe.
    OVERGRO

    Member

    Metagross has a great Ability and honestly the attack isn't so terrible (locks down Vmax mons). However, as usual, it is cursed by being a Stage 2.

    I honestly wouldn't mind Big Basics so much if single-prize Stage 2s were buffed to be more competitive with them in HP and attack cost/power, in addition to keeping their strong Abilities.
     
  8. Water Pokémon Master I like Pokemon more than you. :D
    Water Pokémon Master

    Webmaster News Head Activities Head Elite Member Advanced Member Member

  9. Merovingian Dead Game Enthusiast
    Merovingian

    Articles Head Member

    All I care about is the Celebi.

    Quick translation program says it's 30X the Energy attached to....you? Them? Both?

    Amazing Bloom evolves all of whatever is on your Bench.

    Personally....big oof. IIRC, there's a Shining Celebi coming out soon anyway because of the movie, so I'll hold out for that one.
     
    Emerfirek likes this.
  10. Jackrockstar Aspiring Trainer
    Jackrockstar

    Member

    I’m really interested in Alcremie VMAX. Gives some pretty decent psychic energy acceleration in a format where that’ll be lacking and has a good synergistic attack to boot. It could end up being too clunky in practice, and that weakness to steel is gonna hurt a lot, but idk I have hope.

    Also, I could see Togekiss vmax stall being a thing in the future
     
  11. Emerfirek Aspiring Trainer
    Emerfirek

    Member

    Ya, the Eevee came w/ no surprises in the slightest. It also looks like Coalossal is set for a VMAX as well, w/ those generic attacks (90+burn is easy enough to understand).

    That Steelix artwork stole my heart though. I want just 1 of it. Its attacks make it seem like kind of a more expensive, bulkier, [M] variation of Regirock-V. Dunno if that's a good or bad thing though.

    I also feel like Togekiss-VMAX deserved the Sky Circus ability. That would've been so cool. As it is now, what's the plus of it over Starly? Doing 120 to the Active for the same Energy cost? Actually, it's not even the same Energy cost w/o Bird Keeper b/c it can't use Twin either. But now I really want to see a Sky Circus V or VMAX mon after seeing this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
  12. NicoNoo Meta/budget player
    NicoNoo

    Member

    Amazing Zacian is a crazy addition to ADP - the deck previously had problems reaching OHKO numbers against mons in the format which also ended up making it worse than Zacian Combo and Dragapult V-Max, while also being slower to setup than Pikarom. However, with the loss of Jirachi Prism, the rotation of most good accel for Lightning + the continuous prints of sturdier V-Max mons, ADP only needs to get off Ultimate Ray to load a benched copy of Zacian and hit a OHKO against absolutely any V-Max in format, after Altered Creation GX - even Snorlax and Eternatus fall with an attached Vitality Band or a 'Goon tick. The fact that this is a 3-4 turns setup to win, no matter the deck you are facing, whereas most V-Maxes will be achieving their game-ending setups in 5-6 turns depending on single-prize/multiprize KOs, could probably lead to a resurgence in ADP decks.
     
    AngryBokoblin likes this.
  13. vinyl_warrior Aspiring Trainer
    vinyl_warrior

    Member

    This new Eevee VMAX promo will be given out as a “Rock-Paper-Scissors” prize, whatever that means.

    At the end of Gym Battle events, everyone usually gets a sealed promo card (one of ~8 usually not great cards; e.g. Polteageist V is one of the “goods” ones in the current batch; some are common basics with alternate art) , the Swiss winner gets another, and then everyone plays rock-paper-scissors with the winner getting a special card. At least where I play.
     
  14. Kaizaac Aspiring Trainer
    Kaizaac

    Member

    I think that Alcremie Vmax is my favorite Vmax yet. But where’s my Orbeetle Vmax? I’ve waited long enough, I’m getting impatient.
     
  15. The Rhyperior I am still Mr. Rhyperior
    The Rhyperior

    Member

    • Celebi Rainbow - speed up evolving. 4
    • Zacian Rainbow - If we pay this attack cost, we can KO any low HP VMAXs. There's no P weak VMAX tho. 4
    • Zamazenta Rainbow - Okay. Mini Zamazenta VMAX but to clunky to get this rolling. 3 Geodudes
    • Togekiss V/ VMAX - some decks might take adv of this because this thing searches cards for consistency. 4-5 Geodudes
    • Alcremie V/VMAX - Since P got suck post-rotation, maybe this will go on a Welder deck, just whack some Horror Energy in there. 4
    • Ampharos V - This and Weezing, just Weezing. 3-4
    • Coalossal V - Even with Coalossal, its still expensive. 3-4
     
  16. taigercub Aspiring Trainer
    taigercub

    Member

    I think that Alcremie V Max is going to be really big because it is blowns but with any energy that means that attaching a triple accel automatically boosts your damage by 180

    edit: I can't wait to see some crazy things with celebi
     
    AngryBokoblin likes this.
  17. Grass-Type Farm Owner Aspiring Trainer
    Grass-Type Farm Owner

    Member

    I hope Gigantamax Coalossal doesn't get screwed over like Sandaconda.
     
    MasterGallade likes this.
  18. Poke_collector Aspiring Trainer
    Poke_collector

    Member

    Alcremie V second attack could shut down a lot of competitive decks because of its ability to stop your opponents Pokemon attacking
     
  19. itsAdoggo yamperyamperyamper
    itsAdoggo

    Member

    most of these amazing rares seem like they would be much better in expanded.
     
  20. FireLizard Dragon shipper
    FireLizard

    Member

    Finally
    We've got Psychic and Fighting Zamazenta
     

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