When did the Anime, "Jump the shark?"
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The way I see it, why should fans be forced to listen to poor quality voice acting in the anime? Why should long-time fans of the show settle for, and actually accept poor quality voice acting, when we've had excellent quality (in my opinion) voice acting on the show for 8 years?xxashxx said:I prefer the original voices to these ones but they are ok but not the best. Maybe in a couple of years they will be better than what they are now.
Pokemon USA has no excuse for replacing Veronica Taylor and not giving her a chance to return to the show. Especially since there is nothing preventing her from working on the show (except for the company itself). I'm sorry, I hope I haven't offended anyone with my post. But it really upsets me how badly this company has treated Veronica (and the other members of the original cast). And I don't know about you guys, but personally, I really miss Veronica's Ash voice.
I'm hoping that Pokemon USA will change their minds. They should eventually change their minds and allow Veronica to return soon, if enough fans speak up about this.
Several of the old voice actors have returned to voice new characters. I remember not to long ago, the lady that use to voice Jessie and Misty (Rachael Lillis) returned to voice the gym leader, Maylene. I believe she also voiced the Sunflora in the second Mystery Dungeon special. Meowth's old VA (Maddie Blaustein) was in the same special, voicing the Chatot.
So, I'm sure that Veronica Taylor could return if she wanted to. Not to voice Ash, but for a different character.
So, I'm sure that Veronica Taylor could return if she wanted to. Not to voice Ash, but for a different character.
Yep, everything you said there is true.meowth14 said:
This is the one thing I don't understand about Pokemon USA, and it frustrates me to no end.meowth14 said:
Why would they allow Veronica to return and do other roles, but not allow her to voice Ash - the character she loves most of all?
That makes no sense to me. I mean, Pokemon USA is actually allowing the original VAs to return to the show to voice new characters (that's a fact). So if the company can do this and have no problem with it, then I see no reason why they can't allow the original cast to return and regain their original roles.
Also, it looks to me like Pokemon USA really hates Veronica Taylor for some reason. I mean, I met Veronica in person at this year's New York Comic Con. She really wants to work on Pokemon again and have the chance to voice Ash again!! But apparently, Pokemon USA has told her, that she isn't allowed to work on the show at all.
If you ask me, that sounds a lot like discrimination (not towards the original cast, but towards Veronica specifically). And personally, after 8 years of working on the show, I think Veronica deserves to be given an opportunity to voice Ash again. I mean, that's the least Pokemon USA could do, is give her that chance.
PokemonTrainerLisa said:
Hmm... that's a good question. The current voice actors must have contracts. Maybe, once those contracts are up, the old voice actors can come back and do all of their characters again.
That's what I think, anyway. This whole voice actor thing is pretty confusing. lol
Yeah, I think the new voice actors' contracts is half of the problem (see what I said below). The other half of the problem, is the fact that Pokemon USA doesn't seem to care about the quality of the show at all, which is sad.meowth14 said:
I remember reading somewhere, on another forum, that the contracts for Sarah Natochenny (and the rest of the current cast) expire once per season. So, I think, that each contract they have is for 1 season, but it expires after that particular season ends.
If this is true, and it's not just something I heard, then here's my theory. When Sarah's contract expires, she renews it immediately - not giving Pokemon USA a chance to consider other options or negotiate with Veronica Taylor.
Or, this could be the case. Whenever Sarah's contract expires, Pokemon USA has a certain amount of time to consider bringing back Veronica, but for some reason - they always decide against doing this. I find this to be very strange, especially since the majority of fans prefer Veronica as Ash (from what I've seen). But sadly, there just isn't enough people writing Pokemon USA about this, in order for them to pay attention to this issue (but this could change though, if more fans email them).
Yeah, it's very confusing indeed. XDmeowth14 said:This whole voice actor thing is pretty confusing. lol
I personally think Pokemon USA planned to take the show from 4Kids, and then replace the original cast soon afterwards, just like that. I think they planned the whole thing from the start, cause it seems like a conspiracy, lol.
So, I guess that's not the problem. Maybe the problem is with the old voice actor's contracts with 4Kids. Maybe the 4Kids contract doesn't allow them to permanently work on shows that don't belong to 4Kids. That would explain why some of the old VAs returned to do small roles only. Do you think that could be a possibility?PokemonTrainerLisa said:
I STRONGLY disagree that PokeUSA does not care about the quality. If anything, 4Kids did not care after it became their cashcow(Johto). They let Eric, Screw the Rules, Stuart, ruin Brock and James.
Brock came off as a degenerate instead of extremely lonesome, and let us not discuss how James' sexuality is still discussed because of dub lines and Eric's performance.
If PokeUSA did not care, would they ever redub Mirage? Dubbing is alot of work and money, even for Nintendo. They knew how bad the quality was on this project. If they didn't care, life would just go on. Also keep in mind the redub was a Straight to DVD and a special feature.
If PokeUSA did not care, would they still do 4Kids-y intro music(DP withstanding)? Music costs alot of money too. They could have made it rushed and crappy. No, We Will Be Heroes and Stand Up!~Battle Cry~ are quite well liked, more than say "Unbeatable".
Let's play devil's advocate, let's just say Veronica was cast back tomorrow. People already said the show was of declining quality through Johto and Hoenn. Would it still be in the slump it is now, in the fandoms eyes? Yes. Because it is a show for 5Yr olds. It has been sence Johto. It's never going to have smart plots. I don't see how the cast of this series, a series for preschoolers, matters that much.
Saying that, Veronica got into a slump with Ash. Ash started as a boy, as raspy boy, but a boy. By season 3, she used more of the "Ashley" voice till we got to Advanced, where she sounds like a girl with throat problems.
Brock came off as a degenerate instead of extremely lonesome, and let us not discuss how James' sexuality is still discussed because of dub lines and Eric's performance.
If PokeUSA did not care, would they ever redub Mirage? Dubbing is alot of work and money, even for Nintendo. They knew how bad the quality was on this project. If they didn't care, life would just go on. Also keep in mind the redub was a Straight to DVD and a special feature.
If PokeUSA did not care, would they still do 4Kids-y intro music(DP withstanding)? Music costs alot of money too. They could have made it rushed and crappy. No, We Will Be Heroes and Stand Up!~Battle Cry~ are quite well liked, more than say "Unbeatable".
Let's play devil's advocate, let's just say Veronica was cast back tomorrow. People already said the show was of declining quality through Johto and Hoenn. Would it still be in the slump it is now, in the fandoms eyes? Yes. Because it is a show for 5Yr olds. It has been sence Johto. It's never going to have smart plots. I don't see how the cast of this series, a series for preschoolers, matters that much.
Saying that, Veronica got into a slump with Ash. Ash started as a boy, as raspy boy, but a boy. By season 3, she used more of the "Ashley" voice till we got to Advanced, where she sounds like a girl with throat problems.
I
Pokemon Is the 2nd biggest rake in next to Mario. They would not do anything because of that #1 reason. Pokemon is a huge fan fic and always will be by todays standards. I know how hard it is to watch without the original cast. There is nothing we can do at this point. This is what we have for now. At least Pokemon is still on. Be thankful that it is on. Pokemon was almost cancelled 2 times that I know of. The first time was because of the Electric Soldier Porygon episode and the 2 time happen when the new VA's were almost ready to take over. They thought about that long and hard and decided to give it a try in the special and season 9. It would have ended in season 9 but they got a little better as time passed so they did not cancel the show. At least they have a cast. With the bad economy I am actually surprised they still have a job. Be thankful that the show is still going on. I know it is tough but at least we still have episodes to watch.
PokemonTrainerLisa said:The way I see it, why should fans be forced to listen to poor quality voice acting in the anime? Why should long-time fans of the show settle for, and actually accept poor quality voice acting, when we've had excellent quality (in my opinion) voice acting on the show for 8 years?xxashxx said:I prefer the original voices to these ones but they are ok but not the best. Maybe in a couple of years they will be better than what they are now.
Pokemon USA has no excuse for replacing Veronica Taylor and not giving her a chance to return to the show. Especially since there is nothing preventing her from working on the show (except for the company itself). I'm sorry, I hope I haven't offended anyone with my post. But it really upsets me how badly this company has treated Veronica (and the other members of the original cast). And I don't know about you guys, but personally, I really miss Veronica's Ash voice.
I'm hoping that Pokemon USA will change their minds. They should eventually change their minds and allow Veronica to return soon, if enough fans speak up about this.
Pokemon Is the 2nd biggest rake in next to Mario. They would not do anything because of that #1 reason. Pokemon is a huge fan fic and always will be by todays standards. I know how hard it is to watch without the original cast. There is nothing we can do at this point. This is what we have for now. At least Pokemon is still on. Be thankful that it is on. Pokemon was almost cancelled 2 times that I know of. The first time was because of the Electric Soldier Porygon episode and the 2 time happen when the new VA's were almost ready to take over. They thought about that long and hard and decided to give it a try in the special and season 9. It would have ended in season 9 but they got a little better as time passed so they did not cancel the show. At least they have a cast. With the bad economy I am actually surprised they still have a job. Be thankful that the show is still going on. I know it is tough but at least we still have episodes to watch.
You know, whether or not the Pokemon Anime has "jumped the shark" because of the VA switch or any other reason is entirely subject to ones opinion. I don't think it has "jumped the shark" at all, and I am very much enjoying the latest DP saga episodes. But the issues in question have to do with much more than mere contracts. They have to do with the very fabric of reality itself.
I do have an observation, which requires me to go off on a tangent for just a bit, so please forgive me. Lately on Youtube, I've been catching episodes of The Legend of Prince Valiant, a cartoon based on the Arthurian Legend that aired in the early 90's (you guys should check it out if you ever get the chance). At the very end of the episode titled The Shadows of Destiny, Merlin says "I never predicted the future." "I merely recorded the events of the past and speculated on where they might lead." I think those quotes ring very true in this case as well. And I might add that while we cannot predict exactly what will happen in the future, I think if you know enough about the past, then you know that certain possibilities in the future are ruled out.
I'm not going to state any claims of fact regarding the VA issue. I know Lisa well enough to know exactly what her response will be. But here are a bunch of questions that I think Lisa and her friends should seriously consider for themselves:
1. Why did PUSA/TPCI decide to take the Pokemon Anime out of the hands of 4Kids in the first place and Dub the show in house for Seasons 9 and up?
2. Why did PUSA/TPCI replace the voice actors for the Pokemon Anime Dub in the first place?
3. Why have Sarah Natochenny, Bill Rogers, Michele Knotz, And Billy Beach/Jimmy Zoppi continued to provide the voices of Ash Ketchum, Brock, Jessie, May (on occasions when she makes a guest appearance in post-AG episodes), James and Meowth respectively for Seasons 10, 11, and 12, and why have none of these roles not been returned to Veronica Taylor, Eric Stuart, Rachael Lillis, and Maddie Blaustein (RIP), nor given to a diffent replacement cast for any of those seasons?
4. Why hasn't Veronica Taylor or Eric Stuart done any voice work on Pokemon post Season 8?
5. Why hasn't Rachael Lillis, despite doing several minor voices on Pokemon in August and September 08, not done any voice work for Pokemon since then?
6. Why won't TPCI or DuArt provide you with any answers to those questions when you try to obtain them?
7. Why does CartoonnNetwork continue to air new episodes of Pokemon on Saturday mornings at 9:00 AM?
8. Why does CN continue to air Battle Dimension episodes (the last Pokemon season prior to the current one) on weekday mornings at 8:00 AM?
9. Why has CN recently been airing reruns of the newest Pokemon episode at 7:30 AM on Sundays, and why have they been airing the last two Pokemon episodes in an hour long slot Saturday afternoons as well as another day of the week?
10. Why will CN air a marathon of the first 11 Galactic Battle episodes next Sturday afternoon?
Now I know the answer to all these questions, but I'm not going to give them away.
But I do not know the answers because I work for TPCI or DuArt (which I don't), nor because someone at TPCI or DuArt provided me with answer (which they did not).
Rather, I know these answers because I understand the events of the past based on the very limited information that has been available to the public, and I understand much of how the real world works. I've lived through the real world and have learned many lessons though personal experience, including the job I've had for over two years now.
I cannot predict exactly what will happen with the Pokemon franchise in the future, but again, I do know based on past experience, that there are certain possibilities that can easily ruled out in the future.
Edit: There's one other point that just caught my attention, which I do think needs to be addressed.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how that statement makes sense. I know you still watch the Anime, even to this day, but how is anyone being "forced to listen to poor voice acting in the Anime?' I do get the concept of 'I enjoy watching something on television despite what I see as it's obvious flaws' (heck,I'm one of those people). But I wonder what magnetic force on this very Earth continuously draws people to a product that, in their opinion, is so consistently poor in quality for such a lengthy period of time. In your case, despite the "poor quality voice acting," what exactly are the redeeming qualities of the Pokemon Anime Dub over the past 160 episodes that kept you from turning away from watching them?
I do have an observation, which requires me to go off on a tangent for just a bit, so please forgive me. Lately on Youtube, I've been catching episodes of The Legend of Prince Valiant, a cartoon based on the Arthurian Legend that aired in the early 90's (you guys should check it out if you ever get the chance). At the very end of the episode titled The Shadows of Destiny, Merlin says "I never predicted the future." "I merely recorded the events of the past and speculated on where they might lead." I think those quotes ring very true in this case as well. And I might add that while we cannot predict exactly what will happen in the future, I think if you know enough about the past, then you know that certain possibilities in the future are ruled out.
I'm not going to state any claims of fact regarding the VA issue. I know Lisa well enough to know exactly what her response will be. But here are a bunch of questions that I think Lisa and her friends should seriously consider for themselves:
1. Why did PUSA/TPCI decide to take the Pokemon Anime out of the hands of 4Kids in the first place and Dub the show in house for Seasons 9 and up?
2. Why did PUSA/TPCI replace the voice actors for the Pokemon Anime Dub in the first place?
3. Why have Sarah Natochenny, Bill Rogers, Michele Knotz, And Billy Beach/Jimmy Zoppi continued to provide the voices of Ash Ketchum, Brock, Jessie, May (on occasions when she makes a guest appearance in post-AG episodes), James and Meowth respectively for Seasons 10, 11, and 12, and why have none of these roles not been returned to Veronica Taylor, Eric Stuart, Rachael Lillis, and Maddie Blaustein (RIP), nor given to a diffent replacement cast for any of those seasons?
4. Why hasn't Veronica Taylor or Eric Stuart done any voice work on Pokemon post Season 8?
5. Why hasn't Rachael Lillis, despite doing several minor voices on Pokemon in August and September 08, not done any voice work for Pokemon since then?
6. Why won't TPCI or DuArt provide you with any answers to those questions when you try to obtain them?
7. Why does CartoonnNetwork continue to air new episodes of Pokemon on Saturday mornings at 9:00 AM?
8. Why does CN continue to air Battle Dimension episodes (the last Pokemon season prior to the current one) on weekday mornings at 8:00 AM?
9. Why has CN recently been airing reruns of the newest Pokemon episode at 7:30 AM on Sundays, and why have they been airing the last two Pokemon episodes in an hour long slot Saturday afternoons as well as another day of the week?
10. Why will CN air a marathon of the first 11 Galactic Battle episodes next Sturday afternoon?
Now I know the answer to all these questions, but I'm not going to give them away.
But I do not know the answers because I work for TPCI or DuArt (which I don't), nor because someone at TPCI or DuArt provided me with answer (which they did not).
Rather, I know these answers because I understand the events of the past based on the very limited information that has been available to the public, and I understand much of how the real world works. I've lived through the real world and have learned many lessons though personal experience, including the job I've had for over two years now.
I cannot predict exactly what will happen with the Pokemon franchise in the future, but again, I do know based on past experience, that there are certain possibilities that can easily ruled out in the future.
Edit: There's one other point that just caught my attention, which I do think needs to be addressed.
PokemonTrainerLisa said:
I'm sorry, but I don't see how that statement makes sense. I know you still watch the Anime, even to this day, but how is anyone being "forced to listen to poor voice acting in the Anime?' I do get the concept of 'I enjoy watching something on television despite what I see as it's obvious flaws' (heck,I'm one of those people). But I wonder what magnetic force on this very Earth continuously draws people to a product that, in their opinion, is so consistently poor in quality for such a lengthy period of time. In your case, despite the "poor quality voice acting," what exactly are the redeeming qualities of the Pokemon Anime Dub over the past 160 episodes that kept you from turning away from watching them?
Good point!xxashxx said:
I love Pokemon and will watch it unill it ends, even though I don't think it's as good as it use to be. And like I said before, I don't mind the new voices. They're good enough for me, and I actually like a few of them better then the old ones. lol. So, I'll keep watching no matter what happens!
Oh, by that, I'm referring specifically to anime fans who are strictly dub-fans and only watch anime dubs (people who don't watch Japanese raws/subs).mogoldmember said:
There's only one version of the current Pokemon English dub, and that's the version which Pokemon International produces. That's basically what I meant when I said they've "forced us to listen to poor voice acting".
I mean, sure, you could argue, that if we don't like the current dub, we could just stop watching. And yeah, we could do that. But come on, do you know how difficult it would be to stop watching a show you've watched ever since it began airing? Why should we have to stop watching a show that we've always loved? Especially if we're only dissatisfied with one aspect of the show.
And of course, there are indeed people who have stopped watching the show, simply because of the VA switch and/or the new voices. Just goes to show you how poor the quality of the voice acting is, if it's causing a lot of people to stop watching the show (and these are fans who would probably still be watching Pokemon, otherwise).
Well, some people watch Pokemon just cause it's Pokemon (no matter what quality the show is, they'd still watch it).mogoldmember said:
Then, there are others who watch the show, cause they wanna know what happens next with the plot.
As for me, well, like I said, I'm not interested in the plot at all. But the main reasons I have for watching the Pokemon USA dub are:
1) I want to understand the dialogue and know everything that the characters are saying (obviously, if I understood Japanese, then I would definitely be watching the Japanese version).
2) I watch the current Pokemon International dub, mostly because of the music (I'm curious about which songs are used in the dub, cause I love all the music from Pokemon).
2) I'm a dub fan in general, and I'll always be a dub-fan.
These are the only reasons why I'm watching the Pokemon International (formerly Pokemon USA) dub. And they're also the only reasons why I'm able to tolerate Sarah's acting. But hey, don't get me wrong, she's really not that bad. For the most part, it's her inconsistency and her inability to portray emotion in Ash that I dislike about her performance. I mean, even I liked how she did in "Get Your Rotom Running". However, there's a huge difference between Sarah's performance in that episode and in "Leading A Stray" (if you don't believe me, just watch the two episodes and compare them for yourself).
Well, that does make sense. However, there are a few problems with this theory.meowth14 said:
1) Veronica Taylor and the rest of the original cast are freelance. They can work for any company they want. And despite what many people believe, they aren't exclusive to 4Kids.
2) Veronica Taylor and the rest of the original cast worked on games such as Pokemon Channel and Pokemon Puzzle League. And I'm pretty sure none of this stuff was produced by 4Kids.
3) The original cast has done many projects for Central Park Media, even while they were working on shows for 4Kids.
The fact that Rachael Lillis was able to work on the Pokemon USA dub, that alone means that the original cast has no contracts preventing them from working on the show.
In my opinion, it looks like Pokemon USA is simply biased against using Veronica. For some reason, they like Sarah Natochenny better and they prefer her version of Ash, which is why they haven't given Veronica a chance. That's what I think anyway.
I'm sorry, but that sounds very bleak and depressing.xxashxx said:
And I disagree with the "there is nothing we can do at this point". I'm still hopeful, and I will continue to believe what I want. No one can convince me otherwise, no matter how hard they try.
Personally, I don't think Pokemon has ever came close to being cancelled in the US, not even once. Cartoon Network makes way too much money off of it, even despite whatever the ratings are showing (note: I don't keep track of the ratings), for them to even think about canceling a show like this.xxashxx said:
Their target audience is little kids, and they will always watch Pokemon no matter what (just cause it's Pokemon). However, just because this is a show for little kids, doesn't mean that people outside the target audience don't watch Pokemon. I know that there are many teens and even people in their 20's who still watch Pokemon.
Well, the question "When did the anime jump the shark" is subjective. Anyone can have their own opinion about this, and there isn't a right or wrong answer.Exellion_Raichu said:
However, things like the Pokemon anime being a kids' show, that doesn't bother me at all. I'm gonna continue watching the show simply because I want to know how it ends (if it ever does end).
I personally don't watch Pokemon for its plot. I couldn't care less what the writers do with the show. As long as Ash continues to be the main character (and I'm pretty sure he always will be), my opinion on the show will never be affected by the show's plot. And basically, I'm saying that, no matter what, I'm perfectly fine with whichever way the writers take this show.
Having said that, I watch Pokemon for its animation, its dialogue, for the music, and for the voice acting. Speaking of the 4Kids dub in particular, what I loved most of all was the voice acting, and I always believed it had excellent quality voice acting (and I know I'm not the only fan who feels this way). With the Pokemon USA dub, I feel it's good for the show to still be on the air, however at the same time, I am greatly disappointed in the quality of the show's voice acting. I honestly think Pokemon USA could do a much better job (if they wanted to). And that's why, to me, the show has indeed "jumped the shark" and declined in quality.
Also, I should mention that I have grown up watching the Pokemon dub. Ever since the show first started airing, I have grown used to listening to Veronica's Ash voice and all the other familiar voices. And, I don't know about anyone else here (I'm assuming that everyone now either hates the original cast, or everyone has forgotten about them completely). But personally, I am very attached to the original cast. And if it ever happens, I would love to one day see the original VAs return and regain their original roles. But most of all, I really wanna see Veronica Taylor return. Because in my eyes, she truly made Ash who he was, and she gave him his soul.
As far as I'm concerned, Sarah Natochenny's Ash is a completely different character. But that's just my opinion.
The show is not jusr foe kids as it started out that way but as more and more watched they basically changed it so it is for everyone now. I just hope they will have better VA;s and yes it was nearly cancelled 2 times. They pulled it for about 4 months before they removed and deleted that episode. $ kids did make sure it continued on though. The cast did their best to keep the show alive. If it happens again (the 3rd time that I know of) than it will probably go down for sure. Usually the 3rd time is a charm. I hope it will always air no matter what happens though.
I just want to say a few things mainly because a few statements on here have caught my attention.^-^
I don't know why these threads attract me. I should really post here more often since I'm very inactive.lol
It's still aimed at kids even if adults watch it though. The kids ratings are what the networks care about more even though adults watch. Cartoons likePokemon should be focused on everyone in my opinion since that's usually the intention of the writer but the networks think very differently.
I know in Australia where I live naruto got axed off free to air TV because too many adults were watching. Very risky having a cartoon with too many adults watching at kids time here. The TV station stops supporting it.
It's amazing Pokemon has survived as long as it has. Even more surprising it's still going in Australia after the johto saga.
There's cartoons I just can't easily get anymore due to problems in Australia. The following are a couple I'm tracking down:
Digimon: no episodes showing at the moment since data squad wasn't in the guide last I checked. No DVD's in Australia and better yet we don't even get the games anymore. No DS Digimon games in Australia. If you want episodes in Australia well there is a boxset that came out overseas recently of the newest season. Though in Australia it is import only.
Sailor moon: never got to see the newer VA's for that cartoon. They kind of axed it and that was it. DVD's are hard to get now aswell.
Those are favourites and alot I've resorted to importing. Pokemon is the only thing I can get in Australia when it comes to cartoons I like as a kid. Once Pokemon's gone that's that.
There are other cartoons I liked as a kid that never came to DVD and are just gone forever that can't even be imported.
That's why I clutch onto Pokemon more so because it is the last of my childhood left.
However I'm not going to be too worried if it were to go. It's bound to happen sooner or later and it doesn't matter who's in the role. So I'm gathering the DVD's that are now coming out in Australia while I can. I wouldn't be surprised if other Australians are doing the same thing. (it'd explain the high sales of season 10 boxset and why we have every season out here in boxset now) We know what it's like to not be able to get hold of something. Don't take things for granted. That's my advise.
That said a new cartoon I decided to get into actually stopped before it got a chance to get off the ground. 4kids One Piece did fine here but I didn't like it. Though when Funimation took over we got the movie and well that's about it.
I have been desperately importing the stuff from overseas since that is the only way to get Funimation One Piece episodes. Who'd have thought that Funimation would cause me to like One Piece.XD
Agree with this.
One minute it'd be there and the next minute it could be axed.
I honestly think Pokemon going to go on for a long time even if it gets axed in the english countries.
Japan has had cartoons go quite alot of years. If I remember correctly one went for 30-40 years and still going. Not sure what it was but I read about it somewhere. It's not unheard of over there.
I can see Pokemon kept going until the ratings run into the ground. It seems to be that type of cartoon.
The writers could prove me wrong however but we'll see.
For me on the VA's. I'm inbetween. I like both sets equally though for some reason in recent weeks I'm starting to grow a bigger liking to Bill Roger's for some reason. The guy does brock, Combusken and Croagunk's voice. I really love the range he has.=)
Sarah and veronica. Well I'll put it this way I like aspects of sarah's voice and I like aspects of veronica's voice. I will miss veronica from time to time but watching a good 4kids episode helps fix that. However the odd thing is I think I'd miss sarah's Ash voice aswell if she left. Odd as it sounds but marathoning my 4kids DVD's and not PUSA's since I'm not up to them has caused me to crave to hear sarah again. So I guess I'd miss both.
Too bad we can't have 2 versions of Pokemon running along side one another.=P
I'm very split. I can't decide who I like better. So sometimes when people ask me in recent weeks privately I use an escape route. That escape route is Rika (satoshi's voice actor) rules over both. That's the only thing I can decide on these days.lol
I don't consider the voice acting poor quality. Different approaches but not poor quality. More along the lines of okay acting. Nothing amazing. I didn't find the 4kids cast amazing either.
I have heard poor quality VA's before and I've heard horrible quality VA's. These current VA's don't actually fit in the categories of what I've seen and heard off some other cartoons. I have heard VA's worse than the current cast.
Anyway yeah I agree at least it's on TV and I stillfind it enjoyable.
I mean if I couldn't stand the PUSA dub chances are I'd probably hate the 4kids dub aswell since I see them on equal grounds. I would have been Japanese only by now if I considered both bad. I am known for quitting if I can't stand a cartoons direction no matter how good I use to enjoy it years ago. The thing that's different between me and everyone else is that you'll probably never see me again unles my interest returns. I usually completely leave the fandom entirely when I lose interest. I'd be there one minute and gone the next. So far with Pokemon I've had it gone low but not low enough for me to state I can't stand it and leave.
I did have a low point in 8th season but it's picked up since then for me so I'm enjoying the dub alot now.
I watch it because I still enjoy it. Not because I have to.
Oh yeah as for the main topic. Everyone has a different opinion of when the anime jumped the shark. Personally from observation of many forums I'd say if the show has truely jumped the shark it's seems to be all pointing to the show going for way too long.
The longer the show goes on the more changes there are. The more changes there are the more people upset. Also the longer the show goes the more repetitive it gets and the more likly chance of reused plots thus causing people to get bored or even demand for characters to go.
I don't mind the changes. I'm enjoying it alot still. Others do care however. That's normal though.
I don't know why these threads attract me. I should really post here more often since I'm very inactive.lol
xxashxx said:The show is not jusr foe kids as it started out that way but as more and more watched they basically changed it so it is for everyone now. I just hope they will have better VA;s and yes it was nearly cancelled 2 times. They pulled it for about 4 months before they removed and deleted that episode. $ kids did make sure it continued on though. The cast did their best to keep the show alive. If it happens again (the 3rd time that I know of) than it will probably go down for sure. Usually the 3rd time is a charm. I hope it will always air no matter what happens though.
It's still aimed at kids even if adults watch it though. The kids ratings are what the networks care about more even though adults watch. Cartoons likePokemon should be focused on everyone in my opinion since that's usually the intention of the writer but the networks think very differently.
I know in Australia where I live naruto got axed off free to air TV because too many adults were watching. Very risky having a cartoon with too many adults watching at kids time here. The TV station stops supporting it.
It's amazing Pokemon has survived as long as it has. Even more surprising it's still going in Australia after the johto saga.
There's cartoons I just can't easily get anymore due to problems in Australia. The following are a couple I'm tracking down:
Digimon: no episodes showing at the moment since data squad wasn't in the guide last I checked. No DVD's in Australia and better yet we don't even get the games anymore. No DS Digimon games in Australia. If you want episodes in Australia well there is a boxset that came out overseas recently of the newest season. Though in Australia it is import only.
Sailor moon: never got to see the newer VA's for that cartoon. They kind of axed it and that was it. DVD's are hard to get now aswell.
Those are favourites and alot I've resorted to importing. Pokemon is the only thing I can get in Australia when it comes to cartoons I like as a kid. Once Pokemon's gone that's that.
There are other cartoons I liked as a kid that never came to DVD and are just gone forever that can't even be imported.
That's why I clutch onto Pokemon more so because it is the last of my childhood left.
However I'm not going to be too worried if it were to go. It's bound to happen sooner or later and it doesn't matter who's in the role. So I'm gathering the DVD's that are now coming out in Australia while I can. I wouldn't be surprised if other Australians are doing the same thing. (it'd explain the high sales of season 10 boxset and why we have every season out here in boxset now) We know what it's like to not be able to get hold of something. Don't take things for granted. That's my advise.
That said a new cartoon I decided to get into actually stopped before it got a chance to get off the ground. 4kids One Piece did fine here but I didn't like it. Though when Funimation took over we got the movie and well that's about it.
I have been desperately importing the stuff from overseas since that is the only way to get Funimation One Piece episodes. Who'd have thought that Funimation would cause me to like One Piece.XD
xxashxx said:
Agree with this.
One minute it'd be there and the next minute it could be axed.
I honestly think Pokemon going to go on for a long time even if it gets axed in the english countries.
Japan has had cartoons go quite alot of years. If I remember correctly one went for 30-40 years and still going. Not sure what it was but I read about it somewhere. It's not unheard of over there.
I can see Pokemon kept going until the ratings run into the ground. It seems to be that type of cartoon.
The writers could prove me wrong however but we'll see.
For me on the VA's. I'm inbetween. I like both sets equally though for some reason in recent weeks I'm starting to grow a bigger liking to Bill Roger's for some reason. The guy does brock, Combusken and Croagunk's voice. I really love the range he has.=)
Sarah and veronica. Well I'll put it this way I like aspects of sarah's voice and I like aspects of veronica's voice. I will miss veronica from time to time but watching a good 4kids episode helps fix that. However the odd thing is I think I'd miss sarah's Ash voice aswell if she left. Odd as it sounds but marathoning my 4kids DVD's and not PUSA's since I'm not up to them has caused me to crave to hear sarah again. So I guess I'd miss both.
Too bad we can't have 2 versions of Pokemon running along side one another.=P
I'm very split. I can't decide who I like better. So sometimes when people ask me in recent weeks privately I use an escape route. That escape route is Rika (satoshi's voice actor) rules over both. That's the only thing I can decide on these days.lol
I don't consider the voice acting poor quality. Different approaches but not poor quality. More along the lines of okay acting. Nothing amazing. I didn't find the 4kids cast amazing either.
I have heard poor quality VA's before and I've heard horrible quality VA's. These current VA's don't actually fit in the categories of what I've seen and heard off some other cartoons. I have heard VA's worse than the current cast.
Anyway yeah I agree at least it's on TV and I stillfind it enjoyable.
I mean if I couldn't stand the PUSA dub chances are I'd probably hate the 4kids dub aswell since I see them on equal grounds. I would have been Japanese only by now if I considered both bad. I am known for quitting if I can't stand a cartoons direction no matter how good I use to enjoy it years ago. The thing that's different between me and everyone else is that you'll probably never see me again unles my interest returns. I usually completely leave the fandom entirely when I lose interest. I'd be there one minute and gone the next. So far with Pokemon I've had it gone low but not low enough for me to state I can't stand it and leave.
I did have a low point in 8th season but it's picked up since then for me so I'm enjoying the dub alot now.
I watch it because I still enjoy it. Not because I have to.
Oh yeah as for the main topic. Everyone has a different opinion of when the anime jumped the shark. Personally from observation of many forums I'd say if the show has truely jumped the shark it's seems to be all pointing to the show going for way too long.
The longer the show goes on the more changes there are. The more changes there are the more people upset. Also the longer the show goes the more repetitive it gets and the more likly chance of reused plots thus causing people to get bored or even demand for characters to go.
I don't mind the changes. I'm enjoying it alot still. Others do care however. That's normal though.
The voice actors don't bother me that much. But, I want Ash to get a MALE VA.
See ash getting a male VA would mean he is going through puberty, and because Ash has stayed 10 years old foe 10 years now, that would not make much sense. To add to the VA discussion:
PUSA planned to get rid of the good voice actors for some time, around the time Ash reached his 4th badge in Hoenn, because they knew the contract would end. On multiple occasions, PUSA allowed fans to meet the new voice actors, while blatantly ignoring fans dislike of the new actors, and focused on the younger kids, as they were not as involved in the old voices. They did not offer Veronica or any of the actors to come and do the new dubs(even though the president of TAJ studious claims he did, but everyone knows that they refused to. TAJ studious claims that the contract of 4kids forbids them to do so, but the contract is void now, and since Sarah renews her contract every season, PUSA has every opportunity to ask veronica and the other VAs to return, but refuse to as the newer generation of pokemon fans enjoy Sarah, as they do not know the good actors. I stopped watching pokemon on a regular bases at the start of the Mystery of Mirage Pokemon episode, as thats when it sucked...Also, Cartoon Network did play all the seasons of pokemon starting from the first to now, but they have been playing DP Battle Dimension over and over now, as they usually end it with a marathon, but we are on our 3rd DP marathon. And after this, they will re-run DP episodes, so people get used to sarah's terrible voice. Ash sounds awful, and that is my, and lots of other peoples, opinion. I only watch the newer crap when it is a movie, or a very important episode that advances whatever crap they call story.
PUSA planned to get rid of the good voice actors for some time, around the time Ash reached his 4th badge in Hoenn, because they knew the contract would end. On multiple occasions, PUSA allowed fans to meet the new voice actors, while blatantly ignoring fans dislike of the new actors, and focused on the younger kids, as they were not as involved in the old voices. They did not offer Veronica or any of the actors to come and do the new dubs(even though the president of TAJ studious claims he did, but everyone knows that they refused to. TAJ studious claims that the contract of 4kids forbids them to do so, but the contract is void now, and since Sarah renews her contract every season, PUSA has every opportunity to ask veronica and the other VAs to return, but refuse to as the newer generation of pokemon fans enjoy Sarah, as they do not know the good actors. I stopped watching pokemon on a regular bases at the start of the Mystery of Mirage Pokemon episode, as thats when it sucked...Also, Cartoon Network did play all the seasons of pokemon starting from the first to now, but they have been playing DP Battle Dimension over and over now, as they usually end it with a marathon, but we are on our 3rd DP marathon. And after this, they will re-run DP episodes, so people get used to sarah's terrible voice. Ash sounds awful, and that is my, and lots of other peoples, opinion. I only watch the newer crap when it is a movie, or a very important episode that advances whatever crap they call story.
meowth14 said:I like Ash's new voice.
I don't understand why people think the new ones are so bad. I don't think the old ones were much better. Lol, I'm sure lots of people disagree with me, though.
I think you might actually be overestimating the magnitude to which people dislike the current cast. I mean, the only time I see anyone express any discontent with members of the current cast are times when the topic of discussion calls for the subject to be discussed, or whenever a certain somebody (coughlisacough) wants vent about Ash's current in any discussion that on the that can even remotely have anything to do with the VAs. And this happens a lot. The person in question even left a comment on video of a Pokemon cosplay, about "Ash's new VA," simply because the person portraying Ash was wearing his Sinnoh outfit.
But when you look at the bigger picture, few people in the entire fandom take issue with the voice acting in the current episodes. And those who don't watch just tend to let it be. And I say this from personal experience. I have examined posts made in episode discussions on Bulbagarden, Serebii, Pokecommunity, TV.com, and even YouTube videos of episodes, and I have almost never seen anybody complain about the voice acting in over a year that I've looked in these places. The few exceptions were:
1. Pika and Goliath!, in which members of a certain campaign group decided pull a stunt on Bulbagarden, resulting in the collateral effect of VA talk being banned there for good (thanks a lot guys).
2. A Lean Mean Team Rocket Machine!, in which members of the same group tried to spam up their hatred of the current voice actors on YouTube videos for that episode, yet nobody else seemed to care.
3. Leading a Stray, in which a single person complained about Ash's voice acting in that episode before promptly being shut up by a moderator.
But generally speaking, you won't find anyone complaining about the voice acting in the series unless you go looking for that (yep, I do just that, so lucky me).
But to answer your question, the real reason people complain about the current voice actors is because apparently, they don't meet the nostalgic litmus test that these people apply. In other words, Sarah Natochenny's Ash voice does not sound like Veronica Taylor's Ash voice, Jimmy Zoppi's James voice does not sound like Eric Stuart's James voice, and so on and so forth. I suppose that standard has merit within the first year, during the transition for both the fans and the new voice cast. But beyond that point, the nostalgic litmus test in question doesn't hold any weight. People should know by then who's voicing who and what to expect.
Bottom line is that I seldom see anyone criticize the present voice cast on their own merits, where they would be judged with the same level of criticism even if they were the only VAs to voice these characters. For example, I don't see anyone saying anything to the effect of 'Sarah's just not qualified to voice Ash Ketchum. Find somebody else to voice him. I don't care if it's Veronica or some other person. Just take Sarah off.' Plus, nobody seems to take issue with Meowth's voice anymore. But before Maddie Blaustein passed on, everyone (well not everybody, but you get the idea) was angry with Zoppi for not sounding like his old voice. But now, nobody cares that it's the exact same different voice.
One last note. I don't know why people are still accustomed to calling the current voices on Pokemon "new." But maybe that's why people still apply the 'nostalgic litmus test.' They are still judged by certain fans as new to the series. But 160 episodes, 3 movies, 4 specials, and counting, would certainly not be consider 'new' by any standards. I mean, the previous cast was equally new to the series after A Dairy Tale Ending, and at that time, nobody really considered them new to the show.
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