Finished Werewolf XXVII: Revelation

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What provoked me to defend myself was the line about me in the nightplot. Considering people at the time were already starting to sniff in that direction, I figured I ought to get it out in the clear before I found myself with a wagon on my head based on an unprovoked announcer line.

I made my huge post about Luis when I did because I kept thinking about the vote on him while I was showering and it really pissed me off. I get upset when people are dumb and use poor logic. I was make short, reactionary comments to it earlier when I was on my tablet because it's hard to type a lot, but when I had the PC again before running off to bed, I thought I would lay out the case to make it perfectly clear.

I'm not sure what you guys want from me at this point. On D1, I was suspicious because I wasn't contributing enough. Now that I'm here and active and posting (it helps that there aren't 15 new pages of Camo and Celever going at each other when I wake up every morning) and contributing and providing reasons and logic for lynch arguments, that apparently makes me scummy, too. FFS, make up your minds.
 
Athena said:
What provoked me to defend myself was the line about me in the nightplot. Considering people at the time were already starting to sniff in that direction, I figured I ought to get it out in the clear before I found myself with a wagon on my head based on an unprovoked announcer line.

I made my huge post about Luis when I did because I kept thinking about the vote on him while I was showering and it really pissed me off. I get upset when people are dumb and use poor logic. I was make short, reactionary comments to it earlier when I was on my tablet because it's hard to type a lot, but when I had the PC again before running off to bed, I thought I would lay out the case to make it perfectly clear.

I'm not sure what you guys want from me at this point. On D1, I was suspicious because I wasn't contributing enough. Now that I'm here and active and posting (it helps that there aren't 15 new pages of Camo and Celever going at each other when I wake up every morning) and contributing and providing reasons and logic for lynch arguments, that apparently makes me scummy, too. FFS, make up your minds.
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But you defended yourself early, without much pressure. The nightplot wasn't exactly pressureful; it feeled a lot like an attempt to dodge a train on you when there wasn't really one.

I'm don't get how Luis of all people is the only player you decided to defend, especially of the ~5 people that ended up having possible trains on them during the previous day, or were they all completely logical and not dumb?
 
I'm not really sold on the Athena lynch yet. I can understand someone not being super active during all the day one shenanigans and becoming more active now that things have calmed down (read as Camo is away) and having more to say now with the Luis development and suspicion cast on her. The SS thing does seem fishy but it seems a little convenient that the NK would be the one person to suspect a specific wolf and the announcer would single this wolf out. Maybe SS was onto something else? For all we know the announcer is lying about being who he says he is (whatshisface just arrived at Kara's Vale and the villagers are wary of him because he's an outsider, so I could see him not having access to the printing press or whatever and it being run by the deeply infiltrated mafia) This could all be part of some mafia ruse that could be trying to set up Athena. Maybe the mafia just SS killed SS for some other reason (maybe at random?) and things have worked to their advantage. This is getting into some wifom territory, though and is also convenient, but I'm just throwing the idea out there despite not believing it very much. I don't think it's that much more farfetched than TT's suggestion that Luis, Celever, bbninjas, and Athena are all involved in their own scum scheme.

Blaine is definitely somebody I would be more willing to lynch, though.
 
Cinesra said:
I'm not really sold on the Athena lynch yet. I can understand someone not being super active during all the day one shenanigans and becoming more active now that things have calmed down (read as Camo is away) and having more to say now with the Luis development and suspicion cast on her. The SS thing does seem fishy but it seems a little convenient that the NK would be the one person to suspect a specific wolf and the announcer would single this wolf out. Maybe SS was onto something else? For all we know the announcer is lying about being who he says he is (whatshisface just arrived at Kara's Vale and the villagers are wary of him because he's an outsider, so I could see him not having access to the printing press or whatever and it being run by the deeply infiltrated mafia) This could all be part of some mafia ruse that could be trying to set up Athena. Maybe the mafia just SS killed SS for some other reason (maybe at random?) and things have worked to their advantage. This is getting into some wifom territory, though and is also convenient, but I'm just throwing the idea out there despite not believing it very much. I don't think it's that much more farfetched than TT's suggestion that Luis, Celever, bbninjas, and Athena are all involved in their own scum scheme.

Blaine is definitely somebody I would be more willing to lynch, though.
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If you're more willing to lynch someone would it not make sense to actually vote them, unless you have a different lead? I don't see much point coming in to give opinions without voting.
 
This isn't about Luis, or about certain players or whatever, it's about the specific logic that was being used to vote Luis. If someone has a scum read on someone or has a gut feel on someone, I can't argue with that. But when someone specifically is using poor logic* to vote to lynch someone that they don't even think is scum, yes, I will call them out on it, just like I called you out D1 for voting to lynch me in the same post where you said you didn't think I was scummy. The point is to try and lynch scum. There's no contradiction here.

I'm not sure what you find so terrible about my defending myself. You yourself said (before I even showed up) "So, what's this pressure on Athena I've been seeing? I've only heard of pressure from Celever, so it looks like everyone else is sheeping." You were the person who voted me. The majority of discussion since nightfall at that point was about the announcer's line about me. There isn't some rule or line that says "When X people are voting for you or talking about you it's okay to defend yourself". I saw I was the prime target of discussion, I addressed it. It wasn't like I even flipped out and posted a role PM or anything, all I did was post a short paragraph recapping the 3 votes on me yesterday (which Celever interpreted as "quite a bit of momentum" for some reason), saying that I was blocked, and then also another short paragraph explaining my experience.

In fact, that wasn't even really defending in any sense of the word. All I did was call Celever out on his misinterpretation of the votes on me during D1 and give a recap of my WW experience.

(* - Lynching someone who's probably innocent, lynching vanilla townies just because they aren't PRs, and lynching someone for the sake of gaining information of no practical value are all individual illogical conclusions in and of themselves. The fact that all 3 happened against Luis makes the whole thing even worse.)
 
That was directed at bb, by the way; XF didn't alert me that there were new posts before submitted that for some reason.
 
I was thinking of waiting until he shows up to address the suspicion against him, but regardless generally people post opinions in WW games to get others to consider them. Plus I have to make that minimum post count ;)
 
Athena said:
This isn't about Luis, or about certain players or whatever, it's about the specific logic that was being used to vote Luis. If someone has a scum read on someone or has a gut feel on someone, I can't argue with that. But when someone specifically is using poor logic* to vote to lynch someone that they don't even think is scum, yes, I will call them out on it, just like I called you out D1 for voting to lynch me in the same post where you said you didn't think I was scummy. The point is to try and lynch scum. There's no contradiction here.
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What about Cinesra? I didn't see you jump in and respond when he got more votes than Luis...

Athena said:
I'm not sure what you find so terrible about my defending myself. You yourself said (before I even showed up) "So, what's this pressure on Athena I've been seeing? I've only heard of pressure from Celever, so it looks like everyone else is sheeping." You were the person who voted me.
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How does this relate to what I'm saying?

The majority of discussion since nightfall at that point was about the announcer's line about me. There isn't some rule or line that says "When X people are voting for you or talking about you it's okay to defend yourself". I saw I was the prime target of discussion, I addressed it. It wasn't like I even flipped out and posted a role PM or anything, all I did was post a short paragraph recapping the 3 votes on me yesterday (which Celever interpreted as "quite a bit of momentum" for some reason), saying that I was blocked, and then also another short paragraph explaining my experience.
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You seemed to have written an awfully large amount for just a few votes, which is a main problem.

Athena said:
In fact, that wasn't even really defending in any sense of the word. All I did was call Celever out on his misinterpretation of the votes on me during D1 and give a recap of my WW experience.
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That recap of your WW experience is something I'm finding awfully off - that is a lot of reasoning you tried to squash into there of why you weren't active like expected because of experience.

On an another note, why have you responded to my vote and not TT's??
 
Cinesra said:
I was thinking of waiting until he shows up to address the suspicion against him, but regardless generally people post opinions in WW games to get others to consider them. Plus I have to make that minimum post count ;)
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Fair enough. Let's just say I helped you make that count, eh?
 
I did address the Cinesra lynch at the time, in this post right here.

If it seems like I write a lot, it's probably because I'm a verbose person; as evidence, see.... almost every post I make on this site everywhere. Sometimes I try to cut down the amount of words I put down, but it's hard. Most of my very short posts are probably when I'm on my phone or my tablet and it's annoying to type a lot so I'm forced to purposefully cut myself shot.

The recap of my experience was not meant to be reasoning of any sort, simply factual. I was under the impression that SS thought I played WW here a lot more than I did. If it came across the wrong way, I'm sorry.

My post was specifically aimed at you and not TT because you're online right now and TT isn't. I think a lot of the points I made also address the things he's saying against me. If there's something specific you (or he) would like me to clarify, please ask. I can't help the fact that the announcer wants to look into me for some reason, all I can do is, well, what I'm doing, trying to explain myself.
 
Athena said:
I did address the Cinesra lynch at the time, in this post right here.
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It is much more quelled in comparison to the defense for Luis you posted.

If it seems like I write a lot, it's probably because I'm a verbose person; as evidence, see.... almost every post I make on this site everywhere. Sometimes I try to cut down the amount of words I put down, but it's hard. Most of my very short posts are probably when I'm on my phone or my tablet and it's annoying to type a lot so I'm forced to purposefully cut myself shot.
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Fair enough, but doesn't really change my view.

The recap of my experience was not meant to be reasoning of any sort, simply factual. I was under the impression that SS thought I played WW here a lot more than I did. If it came across the wrong way, I'm sorry.
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Same here as above. I think it was a bit too much.

My post was specifically aimed at you and not TT because you're online right now and TT isn't. I think a lot of the points I made also address the things he's saying against me. If there's something specific you (or he) would like me to clarify, please ask. I can't help the fact that the announcer wants to look into me for some reason, all I can do is, well, what I'm doing, trying to explain myself.
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I do not get this. What if you and TT aren't on at the same time? Do you just not end up responding? What about if there is something there I'd like to see your responses on? Isn't your responses helpful for everyone, not just the prosecutor? Sounds like a very hollow "explanation" imo.
 
I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. The post that I made addressed things that both you and TT said. I simply wrote it as if it were a response to you because you were online right now. The fact that it was addressed to you is simply a writing style and has little to do with the contest of the post itself. I could rewrite the response to TT, but it would basically just be replacing words here and there, like changing "you" to "bb" or whatever.

My response about the Cinesra lynch was shorter because 1) others were agreeing with me so there was less I felt that needed to be said, 2) there was only one thing I was objecting to (earlier lurker lynch) instead of the several, separate points I had against the Luis lynch, 3) I hadn't been stewing about the situation in the shower (like I had been with Luis lately) so I had less built up emotion about it.

I'm sorry for apparently saying too much or whatever it is you have a problem with, but I don't really understand what you want me to say or do at this point. You seem to be latching onto my lynch for reasons I either don't understand, or that apparently I am addressing just fine but doesn't seem to sway your opinion at all.

On the other hand, we have some Jeremy votes going which I actually feel is an honest scum lead. Not only did he make up a bunch of BS reasons to sheep onto the seer vote wagon, but he didn't even address me calling him out on it and just went full sarcasm/rage-quit mode and voted for himself.
 
Just went back and looked at TT's post. There were a few things there that I didn't say anything about earlier that I'll address now, though there's not really all that much I can say about it.

Yes, SS was the one who started the short-lived vote on me yesterday before Celever and bb joined in, and then the D1 wagon moved onto other targets. I didn't really think all that much of it at the time, especially since D1 votes were kind of flopping all over the place and the day itself was very long. I don't know why the mafia killed SS, but killing him just because he started a weak wagon on a scum member is, well, a pretty crap reason to choose to NK someone. There's not really much I can say in defense of this because it's more about SS than it was about me, and I honestly have no idea why he would have been chosen as a NK. Maybe he breadcrumbed something? I didn't really have much of a read on SS either way.

As far as my own ability being blocked goes, it happened, not much I can say about it or defend it. Again, this is more about SS than it was about me and I can't help that he chose me as his D1 target. I really didn't know it was him until I posted the flavour PMJ sent me and someone else commented about it and I went back and checked SS's role flip (confession: I only really skim the nightplots to see what actions are listed and who dies, so I didn't even know that SS was a roleblocker until then either). Again, I'm not sure what I can say about this except... why would I lie about being blocked? There's no practical reason for me to do such a thing.
 
Cinesra said:
The SS thing does seem fishy but it seems a little convenient that the NK would be the one person to suspect a specific wolf and the announcer would single this wolf out. Maybe SS was onto something else? For all we know the announcer is lying about being who he says he is (whatshisface just arrived at Kara's Vale and the villagers are wary of him because he's an outsider, so I could see him not having access to the printing press or whatever and it being run by the deeply infiltrated mafia) This could all be part of some mafia ruse that could be trying to set up Athena. Maybe the mafia just SS killed SS for some other reason (maybe at random?) and things have worked to their advantage. This is getting into some wifom territory, though and is also convenient, but I'm just throwing the idea out there despite not believing it very much.
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I find it hard to believe that the message is being posted by anyone but Thomas Martin. There's only been one announcer, and to suggest that Martin doesn't have the defining ability of his role in this game is crazy. Plus, the point about the mafia running the printing press is invalid since the notes have been posted in letter form on the guillotine. You said so yourself that you don't believe this theory... so why bring it up in the first place? If the announcer is actually involved in a mafia conspiracy, I'll eat my hat. And then I'll post a series of pictures of me doing so in this thread.

Cinesra said:
I don't think it's that much more farfetched than TT's suggestion that Luis, Celever, bbninjas, and Athena are all involved in their own scum scheme.
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If you had read my post more thoroughly, you would know that I don't actually think that. I mentioned that I wholeheartedly believe Celever to be town, and never actually addressed bbninjas, although I'm getting a town read on him as well. I do have Athena pegged as a definite member of the scum, you're right on that, and Luis isn't far behind her.

Cinesra said:
Blaine is definitely somebody I would be more willing to lynch, though.
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The issue with the Blaine lynch is that we know essentially nothing about him and will gain just as much from his death. He's one of the stereotypically uninvested new players who doesn't do much but pop in and vote. It's really not enough for a full case, but I can see the merit of some further questioning.
 
I have the time to make this post since I have skimmed the thread. Here we go.
  1. Blaine is my irl friend. He has literally no idea what he is doing and has major time constraints. He isn't a good lynch right now.
  2. Jeremy is playing the way he wants. I don't like the way he is playing right now.
  3. Why would you chose Squirtle Squad @Luis?
  4. Don't completely trust Luis but lynching him is terrible.
  5. Refusing to help isn't something town does.
##VOTE: JEREMY1026
 
For those of you hopping onto Blaine's wagon please explain to me why he is a better candidate instead of the 10 other new players doing the exact same thing.
 
steffenka said:
The one I suspect is a scum is Chaos Jackal. One of my abilities let's me know who voted for which person.

Here's the ability:

Active Ability: Watch
Once a night you may PM me the name of a player. If you do, you may not use any other Active Abilities in the same night. You will learn who targeted that player during that night. (Devolves when the timer hits 50)

The person I pm'd was Luctini, since he (supposedly) is a Star Witness, and Chaos Jackal was the only one who had voted for him.
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Completely forgot to do this ##Vote: Chaos Jackal
 
Another thing about Jeremy.
  1. He jumps on wagons and justifies it because he is worried about time.
  2. After a wagon falls apart he says "that was such a dumb lynch"
  3. He barely ever contributes things of substance.
 
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