The troll is dead: Garchomp's reign of terror has ended.

PG24

PG24

<Pride> I'm my wildest fantasy
Advanced Member
Member
Spr_4p_445_f.png
We're finally freeeeeeeeeee!​
(approved by my hero, Steadfast :] )​

By a vote of 55-17, Smogon has banned Garchomp from BW OU. The thread where the suspect voting took place can be found here.

Garchomp is one of the best sweepers ever created by Game Freak. With awesome offensive powers (base 130 Attack along with high power moves and access to Swords Dance. Its base 102 Speed is also nothing to joke about) and decent bulk (108/95/85, which is bulkier than Swampert), Garchomp is a complete nightmare to face. Although Garchomp has so many great things under his belt, he still had his counters. Wait, did I forget to mention Sand Veil? Sand Veil gives Garchomp a free 20% Evasion to all moves when Sandstorm is in play, meaning your Ice Beam that will normally score a OHKO on Chomp is going to be hitting like Stone Edge. Garchomp is a Pokemon you DO NOT want to give a free turn to set up on because of a miss caused by Sand Veil. Many players started abusing Sand Veil to the fullest by giving Garchomp the moveset Substitute/Swords Dance/Dragon Claw/Earthquake. The idea behind this set is to use Substitute until your opponent finally misses, then set up a Swords Dance and proceed to sweep. Many say that Garchomp can be easily countered by Bronzong and Skarmory (who could only phaze, btw), but both suffer from the terror that is known as Sand Veil or by a rarer Fire Fang variant.

Use this thread to discuss this ban, but please don't turn it into the Blaziken thread. Noobs shall be quoted and dealt with by a lengthy post at least three paragraphs long.

(19:05:34) +Steadfast: is your thread banana?
banana.gif


now it is <3333
 
I believe my position on this is rather obvious, as stated by a chat quote:

[18:33] <Hatman> YESSSSSSSSSSS CHOMP BAN WOOHOO
[18:33] * Hatman throws it down into an icy hole
[18:33] <Hatman> DIE GARCHOMP DIE
[18:33] <Hatman> AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[18:34] <Isaac> you fool
[18:34] <Isaac> you just resurrected it as Kyurem
[18:34] <Hatman> YAY I LOVE KYUREM
[18:34] <Isaac> It doesn't love you
[18:34] <Hatman> TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE YAYYYYYY
[18:34] <Isaac> In fact, it will take pleasure in freezing the flesh off your bones
[18:34] <Hatman> IDC
[18:34] <Hatman> AS LONG AS CHOMP DIES

Now, onto a more serious note, I am extremely happy that this ban took place. Sand Veil and Substitute made the Pokemon broken, turning sure-fire wins into haxxed out 1-0 sweeps. One of the only things that could counter it was Bronzong with HP Ice, and even then the opponent could just carry a Magnezone on their team to utterly annihalate any annoying steels that may prevent the sweep of Chomp, such a Ferrothorn or Skarmory as well as Zong. Overall, I am going to be celebrating this moment by making a team that includes Kyurem, now that one of the biggest counters to it is gone. THANK YOU SMOGON!!!!!
 
Yes. Finally hax is slightly reduced, and my rain team can actually ladder decently. This was quite obvious actually, and I'm glad they got it done.
 
I totally agree to this ban. It costed me plenty of matches just a couple days ago. I only needed one of three moves to hit to break sub and I miss with all three. Garchomp just has such good stats and a movepool to use them that it works wonders even without Sand Veil. It also just passes the base 100s in Speed making it able to deal with them effectively. One may claim Ferrathorn is also a good check, but the problem with that statement is that if Sub is up, you're getting 2HKO'd by Earthquake from a +2 Garchomp. The rare versions that have Fire Fang are also problematic for Ferrathorn.

The Yache Berry variant, though less popular, was also a great set. It gets rid of the most common technique to get rid of Garchomp, Ice Beam. True it will get 2HKO'd still, but chances are Garchomp will KO the foe before it takes a second Ice Beam. It worked by setting up Swords Dance just like the other, but had protection from its main weakness. This makes the only technique to get rid of this variant in one hit be Outrage from a powerful dragon Pokemon assuming it hits if the weather is sandstorm.
 
I actually hated the Sand Veil more than Garchomp itself, to be honest. That's probably due to my horrible luck in matches though. :p Overall I'm glad he's banned - it will allow the metagame to relax a bit and not worry about it. I thought the shift in Gen 4 was pretty relieving. I don't think this will be as relieving since he wasn't as huge as a threat as he was in Gen 4, but it's still overall beneficial.
 
It was unhealthy for the metagame completly. Solid bulk, great attack stat, solid speed in this metagame. And of course Sand Veil, which was the hugest breaking point of all. It is completly broken thanks to all these attributes.
 
tbh, I never had THAT much trouble with Garchomp, but I can see that it was too good, even in this metagame. It's a good decision to get rid of it.
 
Amen. Garchomp completely tipped off the metagame... I can now see Flygon making a jump to OU. Also, Salamence will probably get a LOT more use. Overall, this is a metagame improvement, but hopefully we won't see Mence getting banned as well :/
 
With Sand being a dominance again, Sand Veil + Sub Chomp is quite luck based, and I totally see why did the results came the way it did.

Now, Sand teams will need more answer than just lolChomp after Excadrill bites the dust.

Honestly though, I think Tyranitar is more of a problem since all other auto-weather makers out there has to choose between offense and bulk, while Tyranitar has the luxury of both.
 
Honestly, what can rain do these days with Swift Swim gone? Rain's purpose these days is to get rid of Sand.

Sun is a bad option since Fire blows through so many things from a defensive POV, and Hail is LOL and should not be used (for now anyways).

Well, they banned Drought in UU, so if you really want clear skies, you might as well go there =P. Victini still hits like a blood thirsty truck though.
 
Clear said:
Honestly, what can rain do these days with Swift Swim gone? Rain's purpose these days is to get rid of Sand.

Sun is a bad option since Fire blows through so many things from a defensive POV, and Hail is LOL and should not be used (for now anyways).

Well, they banned Drought in UU, so if you really want clear skies, you might as well go there =P. Victini still hits like a blood thirsty truck though.
Click to expand...
Lets see...

Vulpix.
Hippopotas.
Snover.
Obamasnow, for that matter as well.

Thats plenty of things to work with there. I've seen people use them and they still work quite fine in UU. It definatly isn't as popular in UU as it is in OU however.
 
no offense, but the voters this round were stupid. no weather bans, only banning chomp but not excadrill, thundurus or latios?

:/
 
Excadrill has a weak movepool, and Latios is easily countered by Ferrothorn, the most common OU Pokemon as of now, unless they pack HP Fire. Even then, most are choiced in some way, and would be forced to switch out. Granted, you can predict, but overprediction is fun, and even still, HP Fire can't OHKO it anyways. Not much I can say for Thundurus though, other than maybe Focus Blast misses? lol
 
lol, excadrill is the best late game sweeper to ever exist. it just has quakeslide instead of quake-edge. Ferrothorn isn't a counter, just a check. it still takes a load of damage from a specs DM. hp fire is a solid 2hko, and it can't do much back.
 
uh, may be because not enough people nominate auto-weather?

As for Excadrill, I have played PO quite a bit and I have to say that he isn't the problem. He can be countered left and right with Priority Conkel, or Luke. It is Tyranitar that is the problem. As I have stated before, while all other auto-weather needs to pick between hunkering down, or go for broke, Tyranitar does not need to worry about that.

Thundurus avoided the 2/3 +1 majority with the skin of its teeth, if he was a cat, I'd say he used up 8 of his 9 lives this time around, and will not live if he still proved to be a menace (which he probably will).
 
Chillarmy said:
Amen. Garchomp completely tipped off the metagame... I can now see Flygon making a jump to OU. Also, Salamence will probably get a LOT more use.
Click to expand...

No, just no. Flygon was only good last generation when we removed all the faster dragons (Chomp, Mence, and Latias, but Mence shouldn't really be counted because he can only get a speed tie). We also have the Genies and the Musketeers to troll that base 100 speed. Sorry, but base 100 speed isn't as hot as it was last generation.
 
Chillarmy said:
Amen. Garchomp completely tipped off the metagame... I can now see Flygon making a jump to OU. Also, Salamence will probably get a LOT more use. Overall, this is a metagame improvement, but hopefully we won't see Mence getting banned as well :/
Click to expand...

Flygon won't really make that much of a jump. There are other more over-powering dragons in Black and White. There are Onozo, Dragonite (Multi Scale, which is highly underestimated with Dragon Dance), and Salamence.

Clear said:
Honestly, what can rain do these days with Swift Swim gone? Rain's purpose these days is to get rid of Sand.
Click to expand...

Rain can be an effective way of using Tentacruel to setup Toxic Spikes with Rain Dish and Protect. Thus, Rain is also another good way of using stall to your advantage, while also changing the weather on the opponent.

Rain can also be used offensively, allowing your team to dish out Thunder and powered-up Water-type attacks. Additionally, Pokemon weak to Fire-types will also see added benefits in the rain, as they can setup whatever they need to without the fear of fire attacks.

Sun is a bad option since Fire blows through so many things from a defensive POV, and Hail is LOL and should not be used (for now anyways).
Click to expand...

Of the people on the ladder who used Sun correctly, there were at all times 2/5 of the top of the ladder with Sun. You don't use Sun defensively.

Hail can be effectively used with stall and offensively with Mamoswine. While I will admit that Hail is not as good as last generation, it still is viable, and may catch your opponent off guard.

Plato said:
no offense, but the voters this round were stupid. no weather bans, only banning chomp but not excadrill, thundurus or latios?

:/
Click to expand...

Weather makes the game more like a chess game. I like it.

Latios was easily countered by the likes of Tyranitar and Jirachi. Last generation, people didn't really run Jirachi like they do this generation. Also, there are more Pokemon to deal with certain threats, so expect less bans. Excadrill is easily countered by Skarmory, Bronzong, Gliscor, Tangrowth... do I need to go on? However, I will agree that Thundurus probably should have went Uber, but that was a close call, and will likely get banned next round.

Clear said:
uh, may be because not enough people nominate auto-weather?
Click to expand...

It was nominated, but people didn't vote any of the weathers Uber.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top