Ruling Shuppet and plus powers

Sonic_Freak

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Alright, ignoring the fact that plus powers should be pokétools in the first place, I just noticed a flaw in this over-used and unoriginal strategy (Unless, of course, it doesn't matter because no one's noticed this before)

Although Shuppet says to return all cards attached to it to your hand, the Plus Power says to discard it at the end of your turn, regardless of where it is. The card doesn't have to be in play to be discarded.

How it should go:
1. You attack for an unfair 70 damage (plus probably the expert belt)
2. You return shuppet and it's 4 plus powers to your hand (as per instruction on shuppet's card)
3. Before ending your turn, discard the 4 plus powers from your hand (as per instruction on the plus power card)

If this is not the case, can someone please explain to me why it's not?
 
Before you check of discards, you must complete all effects of attack. So PlusPower would go back into your hand. So it is two, as PlusPower goes back into the hand..
 
Alright, but you still can discard from your hand. Why would returning a card to your hand stop that effect?

And no, PP is discarded AT the end of your turn.
 
Sonic_Freak said:
Alright, but you still can discard from your hand. Why would returning a card to your hand stop that effect? I mentioned it before. All effects of attack must be completed BEFORE you check of discards. PlusPower is still attached to Shuppet.

And no, PP is discarded AT the end of your turn.

 
Because PP doesn't take it's discard till after your turn ends. It is no longer on the feild when your turn ends. Just like bodies, those effects don't happen unless it is on the field.
 
PP is discarded WHEN your turn ends, not after. I get that it is still returned to your hand, you people don't have to prove that to me. Then, from your hand, you discard the plus power, because it says so. You use it, you discard it. It doesn't say "If plus power is no longer on the field, this effect ends"
 
Sonic_Freak said:
PP is discarded WHEN your turn ends, not after. I get that it is still returned to your hand, you people don't have to prove that to me. Then, from your hand, you discard the plus power, because it says so. You use it, you discard it. It doesn't say "If plus power is no longer on the field, this effect ends"

Think about it this way. As long as the card is not in play, then any effects on the card is removed (just like Pokemon.) So PlusPower is in play, you attack. It returns to your hand. It is not in play anymore. So the discard effect is removed as long as it is in your hand.
 
Why not? Why does the effect stop? It was used, it's discarded like any other trainer.
 
Sonic_Freak said:
Why not? Why does the effect stop? It was used, it's discarded like any other trainer.


Gliscor said:
Think about it this way. As long as the card is not in play, then any effects on the card is removed (just like Pokemon.) So PlusPower is in play, you attack. It returns to your hand. It is not in play anymore. So the discard effect is removed as long as it is in your hand.
 
The hand is not a safe zone. Effects can reach cards that are not in play, and I know of a few examples if you want me to reference them. So, unless otherwise stated, I would think you can't simply stop an effect like that.
 
That's like saying you have to discard a PlusPower from your hand at the end of your turn, regardless if it's been played before or not.
Unless the effect of a card specifically designates the hand or the deck when out of play, the effects of cards only are in place when those cards are in play.
Why else do you think Shuppet Donk is so popular? It could hit up to 90 damage for just a measly 1 energy (30+4 PlusPowers+Expert Belt), never mind W&R, and do so consistently virtually every turn.
 
Your turn is ended after you attack is completely finished, since shuppets attack says to return all cards attached to it to your hand, plus power goes with it.

Plus power says discard this card at the end of your turn. since plus power is no longer on the field it can't be discarded.

-----

Pretty much its like saying Shuppet is 10 damage away from being koed and its poisoned, if it uses its attack to return it to your hand, the effect of poison can't go off if its not there.
am I right?
 
Sonic_Freak said:
The hand is not a safe zone. Effects can reach cards that are not in play, and I know of a few examples if you want me to reference them. So, unless otherwise stated, I would think you can't simply stop an effect like that.

I'd love to see a ruling that backs your assertion. Per ur logic, Shuppet's Fade Out would not exempt it from Fainting Spell, but it's already been ruled that Shuppet is safe if in hand.

EDIT: ninja'd for slow typing on Windows Mobile device.
 
Fainting spell is crap anyway. But there is a difference between having a pokémon knocked out and discarding a trainer card that you used. I like your attempt at an analogy with poison, but poison takes place between turns, at which time Shuppet is safely inside your hand. I'm only saying that you play a trainer, you discard the trainer. It's the rules of the game. No POS, over-used, cheap, broken card is gonna change that.

Does this -bleep- really fly at tournaments? And no one protests at all?


(PS, Golden Sun is definitely one of the best games ever made, but there were a lot of games made, so it's a tough call. Without a doubt the best GBA game ever made!)
 
It is an OFFICIAL ruling that the Plus Powers are retained after they go into your hand. If it wasn't the case, Shuppet Donk wouldn't be a deck at all and several months of it being played this way would have been unnoticed. Yeah, like that's going to happen.

The PlusPowers are not discarded, Shuppet still does 70+ damage with 4 attached. End.
 
Shuppet Donk with this form of play was popular at cities last week. So far there are no rulings against it.
 
Sonic_Freak said:
Fainting spell is crud anyway. But there is a difference between having a pokémon knocked out and discarding a trainer card that you used. I like your attempt at an analogy with poison, but poison takes place between turns, at which time Shuppet is safely inside your hand. I'm only saying that you play a trainer, you discard the trainer. It's the rules of the game. No POS, over-used, cheap, broken card is gonna change that.

Does this -bleep- really fly at tournaments? And no one protests at all?


(PS, Golden Sun is definitely one of the best games ever made, but there were a lot of games made, so it's a tough call. Without a doubt the best GBA game ever made!)

You are asking a question, but what ever we say you are trying to prove us wrong. That... really doesn't work out.

What we are trying to tell you, that PlusPower isn't discarded, is true. It is just like with Uxie. If you use Psychic Restore w/ a PlusPower attached, it goes to the bottom of your deck. Is it the end of your turn? Yes. But do you just search the bottom of your deck for PlusPower and discard it? No, and same goes with Shuppet. When it is in your hand, it is in your hand. You treat the card as if it was never in play at all.

EDIT: Double Ninja'd o_O
 
Popular.....so sad. No one can make up their own decks anymore, just do whatever works for the other guy. Tragedy. What happened to the good old days when Charizard was god and the game was almost only for fun.


And with Uxie you are no longer in possession of the card(s).

And the reason I'm arguing this is because I'm tired of taking your(collectively, everyone on Pokebeach) word as law. A lot of you use this strategy, ergo, will defend it. If any of you have an official title or rank, and can actually give a definite ruling on this, you have to convince me, or repeat yourselves. Or, even better, can anyone show me an official, uneditable ruling on this and/or a place where I can ask for official rulings from credited sources? There has to be something!
 
Pokemon is all about having fun. That is the main purpose. If a game ceases to be fun it will die in popularity. I believe you are overgeneralizing by saying no one makes their own decks anymore. I put a really rogue deck together for Cities and only didn't top cut because I had a terrible hand the final round of Swiss. When I judged last weekend, I did see some other players doing rogue as well.
 
Sonic_Freak said:
Popular...so sad. No one can make up their own decks anymore, just do whatever works for the other guy. Tragedy. What happened to the good old days when Charizard was god and the game was almost only for fun.

Lol, define fun. Some people play just for the sole reason to play fun, some for the sole reason just to win. However, most of us play for a combination of both. Choose what you want to run, it's your decision. Consider yourself to be "above" people who play a popular deck. Whatever floats your boat.
 
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