Reshiphlosion now.

[Emperor]

Tyram is either 50/50 with a couple of decks (dependant on the list) and pretty much a 45/55 in favour of trainer lock decks. it has no amazing or straight up winnable match-ups which is why Reshiram is pretty much tier 2 right now. Not being able to use Plus Power against Trainer Lock decks means you pretty much need to establish an early game lead and Catacher kill whatever you can to get at least a 3 prize lead before they set up their field just to try and win on time. Against anything else which is pretty much even you can't expect to set-up 2 Ty Prime's and expect to win (though it puts you in a good position) managment of resources is so important. I always find that i've pretty much burned through 80% of my deck by T8/9 just to be able to grab what i can and keep ahead of the prize race. Tyram is no longer the auto-pilot deck it used to be.

So against ZPST i'd say 40-60 in favour of ZPST as they can really take advantage of Tyrams weak early game, though that is pretty much what ZPST is meant to do. However if you can survive past that and manage to set up a Typhlosion then your chances at victory go up to about 50-50. Against ZekEel it's pretty much 50-50. ZekEel is essentially Tyram but with a better chance of getting the game rolling by T2 (If the list includes Thundurus). After that it becomes a game of "who can Catcher the support pokemon first", however Catchering Typhlosion is alot more painful than Catchering Eelektrik. MagEel is a tricky match-up. Eviolite is quite vital in this match-up. As long as Reshirams has 110+ HP (or 90 w/Eviolite attached) it forces Magnezone to lost burn 3 enegy just to KO it.They burn through energy just to eliminate the major threats which makes late-game easier However against a smart player they can just focus on alternating between Thundurus and Zekrom and win like that or just Catcher-kill what they can and sweep with Magnezone.

 

[Celebi23]

I'm coming into this thread pretty late, and I didn't really read the posts in it.

In direct answer to the OP, first off, you shouldn't be planning your deck for Nationals now. It's possible we haven't even seen all of the cards we'll have at that point. And even if we have, it's impossible to predict the meta shifts that will occur before then. Even if Reshiphlosion was good now, it's impossible to predict if it will be good in six months.

Anyway, Reshiphlosion is a bad deck. I've always said this, and I believe I told you to play ZPST in that thread awhile ago. The thing about the deck is that it's weak. If you go down a prize, YOU LOSE. There's no comeback potential at all. I played the deck for the first two Cities I went to, going 3-2 and 3-3 respectively. I won every game I took the first prize, and lost the rest. In a fast-paced format like the one today, T3 setup for average damage is pathetic. Every deck out there is gunning to be able to survive 120 damage, just because of Zekrom, and because of Reshiram's past affects on the format.

The core of the deck is great. You get built-in draw, and once you setup, you don't rely on your hand at all. However, it's so awkward in today's format that it's just bad, despite its great core. Zekrom, CaKE, and Stage 1 decks all setup T1-2 and they aren't reliant on having various support cards out. Any other deck in the format is running either Magnezone or Vileplume, allowing for huge control of the late-game and allowing for great comeback potential. Reshiram generally sets up on T3, so it doesn't fit into the speedy decks category. However, it doesn't run Vileplume or Magnezone, so it doesn't have comeback potential either. In short, it loses to the faster decks because they take the first prize. And it loses to the slower decks because it can't pressure them early-game, and it just can't compete with their late-game.

TyRam also has so many bad matchups. It struggles against ZPST, Eelzone, Chandelure, Truth, and most Stage 1's. You have to run a billion PlusPower to beat CaKE, because you lose if you can't OHKO two of their Kyurem. It's okay in Swiss, but once you get to cut, hit one of its bad matchups (about half the format), and you lose. That's why it has so many top fours and top twos, but only an average amount of wins. You can play to win the game, or you can play to cut. Either strategy works for getting CP's, but if you like winning, TyRam is not the deck for you.

At this point, I'm just so done with any deck that requires a setup. It makes you overly reliant on your opening hand. But I also hate any deck that can't come back off of being down a prize, which is basically every deck that doesn't require a setup. I could go on and on about how stupid this format is, but that has little to do with TyRam, so I'll just stop by saying TyRam requires a setup and it can't come back from being down a prize.

 

[Glace]

The core of the deck is great. You get built-in draw, and once you setup, you don't rely on your hand at all. However, it's so awkward in today's format that it's just bad, despite its great core. Zekrom, CaKE, and Stage 1 decks all setup T1-2 and they aren't reliant on having various support cards out. Any other deck in the format is running either Magnezone or Vileplume, allowing for huge control of the late-game and allowing for great comeback potential. Reshiram generally sets up on T3, so it doesn't fit into the speedy decks category. However, it doesn't run Vileplume or Magnezone, so it doesn't have comeback potential either. In short, it loses to the faster decks because they take the first prize. And it loses to the slower decks because it can't pressure them early-game, and it just can't compete with their late-game.

TyRam also has so many bad matchups. It struggles against ZPST, Eelzone, Chandelure, Truth, and most Stage 1's. You have to run a billion PlusPower to beat CaKE, because you lose if you can't OHKO two of their Kyurem.

At this point, I'm just so done with any deck that requires a setup. It makes you overly reliant on your opening hand. But I also hate any deck that can't come back off of being down a prize, which is basically every deck that doesn't require a setup. I could go on and on about how stupid this format is, but that has little to do with TyRam, so I'll just stop by saying TyRam requires a setup and it can't come back from being down a prize.

Well Kingdra can help you so you don't have to use and rely on all of those Pluspowers, and Magnezone solves a good half of those other problem. (to suggesting somebody uses both- that would be way too much)

 

[Dork Void]

The problem is, Glaceon, you have yet to explain how Magnephlosion is better than Magneboar. Compared to Magneboar, Magnephlosion is slower since you need 3 stage 2s up instead of 2 and usually won't Blue Flare t2, it has the same damage output, the same amount of draw power, worse dragon matchups because after Afterburner damage they OHKO you, and with so many stage 2s you need to set up, its far too catcher-prone to be considered more consistent.

 

[The Yoshi]

That is why you don't lead with Magnezone unless you have too.

Also a good TyRamZone player will not Lost Zone too many energy.

Celebi23 already said this. If you get down a prize, you lose. Magnezone is one more thing that gives your opponent a way to take a prize lead. If you expect to set up faster than decks like CaKE, ZPST, and Magneel, then your expectations are pretty high.

 

[Glace]

TyRamZone now.

Ok

Magneboar

Magneboar is a good deck, but most variants run on Twins and Rare Candy for set up, and use 4-1-3 lines for Magnezone, and often the same for Emboar. This means a often bad The Truth matchup, because you cannot set up until they do, and then they have one Magneton to rely on for the Magnezone, and then Magnezone to get out the Emboar. You could say just boost the lines, but eventually you will be cutting out consistency cards because there are Trainers such as Energy Retrieval that you'll have to keep to get back any discarded energy, because at the end of the game, Magneboar is sometimes droughted out of energy and scrapping up any energy they can possibly find to get the final knockouts. Also if they plan on using RDL or Reshiram, they have to use at least 2 Energy Retrieving Cards in general. If the first knockout against Magneboar is a Magneton or Magnezone, then Magneboar is in big trouble because what tends to be the big/main attacker is knocked out and it is hard to get another. Against EelZone, after Emboar or Magnezone is knocked out early game, its practically over. It is hard for Magneboar to consistently get out Magnezones for attacking, while they are just knocked out the next turn. Though Magnezones in the beginning pose a threat, usually after 2 of Magneboar's Magnezone are knocked out, there is no way to win.

Magneboar vs EelZone

EelZone is so much more consistent and the obvious victor in this situation. Emboar and Magnezone are not self reliant, and if one is knocked out (specifically Magnezone), it will be hard to get another out while consistantly attacking. In the mean time, RDL could do somethign I supposed, but is then counter knocked out, or Catcher'd up for 2 Prizes, making it so the Magneboar play has less time to set up another attacker, but in an awful position anyways.

They are many cards that you'd not want to get when playing Magneboar, but are sometimes necessary therefore have to be included, but cards that do not help for set up or consistency in any way (e.g. Energy Retreival, Fisherman, Collector late game, though that could be said for many decks, and actually, all the energy that Magneboar uses... yes, energy).

Magneboar vs. Cake

Magneboar cannot use the Twins engine until the opponent takes a prize. When Kyurem Glaciates the first time it doesn't take a prize, so then the next turn when Glaciate is used again, 3-4 Pokémon are knocked out with the only "survivors" being Reshirams, which are not going to help when trying to get out Emboar and Magnezone

Magneboar vs Durant

Durant won 2 Cities in the FL marathon, so I think it is fine to review this matchup. Well, Durant never takes a prize, so unless you can somehow get out a extremely quick Emboar and Reshiram while having all the Energy Retrieval you desire, or unless you can somehow get damage on Reshiram, it will be very hard to win. Another easier option is Emboar. Emboar runs right threw Durant, but with the discarding may be hard to get out.

Magneboar vs ZPST

This is a really, really bad matchup. If you attack with RDL, Zekrom can ko for two prizes. If you use Magnezone, Zekrom will take it out in one or two hits cutting off your drawpower. If you opt to use Reshiram, which is the best thing to do, you just have to hope that you can keep them from being knocked out while consistently sending up attackers to knockout all Zekroms that pose a threat.

TyRamZone

First off, notice that this deck is TyRamZone, not TyZone. The deck can function without Magnezone. Magnezone is not a win more card however, and is required for TyRam to win many matchups, namely The Truth. It can works as a Magnezone based deck or a Reshiram based deck. In a format of ZPST, this deck is not very good, but shines in all other matchups. Unlike Magneboar, it does not use Twins to set up, is not as Catcher-prone, and functions more consistently. This is because TyRamZone doesn't need Magnezone sometimes. It can get away without setting up Magnezone, and just opt for TyRam strategy. If you say Magneboar could do that too, then which is better in general, Reshiboar or TyRam?


Catcher

It is not as Catcher-prone because a Catcher on Typhlosion, Magnezone, or anything else will not be a game over situation. If Typhlosion is Catcher'd up, then so be it. It has three options, where as most Magneboars have one. It can, yes, attack (only if you have another, something Emboar would be stupid to do), or use Afterburner to get energy back from the discard to retreat Typhlosion. I suppose you could say this means not attacking for the turn, and in some cases that is correct, but the better TyRamZone player will have attackers, which are in most cases Reshirams, ready tp go. If you have a second Typhlosion up, even better. Use your manual attackment on (this depends on the matchup. If you want to keep damage off of Reshiram, then attach to Typhlosion with Afterburners, and manually attach to Reshiram. If you are afraid of the Catcher ko on Typhlosion, Afterburner once on Reshiram and Typhlosion, and attack to Typhlosion) The other option is Switch, and holding Switch until the most important time for it has saved me many times. Whenever any Pokémon that cannot attack is Catcher'd up against Magneboar, the Magneboar has to use Switch unless they want to let that Pokémon, usually a Magnezone, be ko'd. If that happens, then that is like having a good fighter being taken down though he had a chance to be saved. Doesn't work well.

TyRamZone vs EelZone

This is a tricky matchup to say the least, and can be difficult to win. However. you have to operate using Magnezone as a lead in this, so be careful with your energy. EelZone will either: A. Knockout all Magnezones or B. Knockout all Typhlosions. Whichever the end up doing, work around it. I recommend if they get a quick Magnezone out, using your own Magnezone to knock it out, and if they don't use Reshiram to Catcher ko Eels and Magnetons. This matchup requires a quick set up. When using Sages, think way ahead while discarding.

TyRamZone vs Cake

Unlike Magneboar, it is not very hard to get out quick attackers and Stage 1s. By turn 2 when Kyurem has Glaciate, you'll have one turn to try to evolve all of your Pokémon. Though this is a goal that is not able to achieved, after getting out a Magnezone it becomes easier to get out more Pokémon, even if they are just Quilavas and Magnetons.

TyRamZone vs Durant

Just get out a Typhlosion, though it may be hard with the discarding, and sweep. Don't use Magnezone, it makes Durant's job easier.

TyRamZone vs ZPST

In this matchup use the typical TyRam strategy only using Magnezone if you need to. Hope that your consistent Reshirams are too much for the Zekroms. This can be a hard matchup, get out as many Typhlosions as possible, because they aren't hard for ZPST to Catcher-ko.


I hope your happy.

 

[Serperior]

Yeah. I know I'm thinking really ahead, but I'm just itching to get some cards lol.

I get why Reshiram can't take the big guys like Chandelure and Kyurem, but this is why I think Reshi EX can make a difference. You can play the Reshiram EX mid-game or when you at least have some Typhlosion on yur Bench and start hitting big in only two turns. Or one turn if you have three Typhlosion out. 150 is enough for everything in this format, but then again, this is just Theorymon. -_- I also thought of the Kingdra Prime, but then I also thought of the 1-1 Simisear.

 

[Dork Void]

Glaceon, in this format, Reshiboar is better than Tyram. It can use Badboar or RDL to OHKO Kyurem, Gothitelle, Magnezone, Zekrom, and Chandelure, all of which beat Reshiphlosion. It also beats Reshiphlosion 1 on 1 since it doesn't place damage counters on your Reshiram, so an Emboar'd Reshiram OHKOs Reshiram but a Typhlosion'd Reshiram needs a PlusPower to KO back. Therefore, every argument you made about Energy Retrieval and Fisherman killing your consistency early game can be made about your PlusPowers in TyRam. Without PlusPowers TyRam loses every matchup except Durant. I personally feel that Magnezone is a win more card in Reshiboar, and that you really don't need it, although you could use it for drawpower alone, which is yet another advantage over TyRamZone because you wouldn't care that much if they Catcher KO Magnezone late game. Also, with Reshiram-EX's release, Reshiboar is going to be top tier, and TyRam is going to be even more outclassed than it already is, and Next Destinies isn't that far away.

 

[Glace]

Badboar is called Badboar for a reason. It is hard to set up and is not worth discarding four energy. It is not a one card tech either, vecause you'll have to add an extra Tepig and possibly DCE. I know it beats TyRam is Reshiboar vs TyRam, which is the reason more people were on the Reshiboar hype train than the TyRam hype train before Nats, but at Nats, TyRam came out as the better deck because of all around consistent matchups. That may not be as much of the case now, but is still true. For your examples, you use Magnezone, but I would also like to mention: TyRamZone has Magnezone to ko Zekrom and Kyurem, and every other Pokémon you mentioned. Also please tell me how you expect Badboar to get set up along with a Emboar (goodboar?) ABility to knockout a Gothitelle or Cahndelure under trainer lock? When most Reshiboars use 4-1-3/1 or 4-2-3/1 lines too.

With Reshiram EX's release, I agree that Reshiboar will be better, but not now.

Guess what! I don't use Pluspowers in my TyRamZone. I use Magnezone to ko the those!

It works to. I was playing against EelZone, I used Reshiram for attacking, and Magnezone for other Magnezone's, while saving my switch. And it worked too. I won 5-0.

 

[Dork Void]

Tier 1:

Magnezone Prime/Eelektrik/Zekrom
Zekrom/Pachirisu/Shaymin/Tornadus
Vileplume/Reuniclus BW variants
Chandelure/Dodrio/Vileplume

Tier 1.5:

Chandelure/Dodrio
Kyurem/Cobalion NV/Electrode
Yanmega Prime/Magnezone Prime
Lanturn Prime/Eelektrik

Tier 2:

Reshiram/Typhlosion
Gothitelle (EP47)/Reuniclus BW
Vanilluxe/Vileplume/Victini (NV14)
Durant

So out of the 12 best decks in the meta, only 2 of them have main attackers that can actually be OHKOed by Reshiram without PlusPower or Kingdra. One, Lanturn/Elektrik, is never seen and against Durant its better to just set up a Typhlosion or Emboar and attack with that. This isn't the same format as Nationals and Worlds. Its changed. A t3-4 Blue Flare, and then 120 damage for the rest of the game is not doing anything. In half of these matchups you're going to be attacking with Typhlosion instead of Reshiram because energy starving them is more effective than trying to overload them with damage. But with Magnezone, everything changes: you suddenly have decent matchups against most of the board, and its because you're using Magnezone in every single matchup except Durant. Wasn't it you who said TyphloRamZone>Magneboar because the Magnezone is optional? And yet 90% of the metagame beats you without it. So if you're going to be using Magnezone as your primary attacker...why not use Mageel? Its faster, deals more damage early game, is more consistent, won't dead draw because of energy fails, and just about every single matchup is better for it.

Also, you replied to Badboar, but not RDL. RDL can be very effective. If I can set up an Emboar and RDL turn 2 (not that tough with a consistent list) I can take 4-6 prizes with it before the opponent can set up and KO it.

 

[Glace]

Exactly. That is why you use Magnezone. I know Reshiram cannot take down them all.

Magnezone Prime/Eelektrik/Zekrom Magnezone for other Magnezone, Reshiram for after a Magnezone is knocked out
Zekrom/Pachirisu/Shaymin/Tornadus I'll admit, this is a bad matchup
Vileplume/Reuniclus BW variants Magnezone all the way[
Chandelure/Dodrio/Vileplume Magnezone for Chandelure, start with Reshiram.

Tier 1.5:

Chandelure/Dodrio even easier, I use Catcher+Blue Flare to knockout all Dodrios
Kyurem/Cobalion NV/Electrode Can be hard, try to get out Stage 1s, then Magnezone to knockout the first Kyurem
Yanmega Prime/Magnezone Prime Reshiram for Yanmega, Magnezone for Magnezone
Lanturn Prime/Eelektrik Reshirams+Magnezones if needed

Tier 2:

Reshiram/Typhlosion Magnezone ko all Typhlosions
Gothitelle (EP47)/Reuniclus BW Magnezone to knockout all Gothitelle, Reshiram for sweep
Vanilluxe/Vileplume/Victini (NV14) Magnezone to knockout all Vanilluxe
Durant Typhlosion

This is why Magnezone is important.

I'm not saying this is the same format as Nats/Worlds. It was an example.

TyphloRamZone>Magneboar because Magnezone is optional, true, but in some matchups it is needed. Think of it like an extremely important tech. Not used in some matchups, but important for others. This tech just works against half the metagame, which is why you say that.

Magnezone is not the primary attacker, except for in a few matchups.

With no Twins please better explain how you set up a turn 2 RDL. Also, you'll end up taking out consistency cards for the RDL, decreasing the chances even more.

For why not use EelZone... I like the more options with where you can attach your energy, but I guess they are similar. I'm just saying if you want to use a TyRam based deck, use this.

 

[Dork Void]

You're not making sense. You say

Magnezone is not the primary attacker, except for in a few matchups.

And yet it is listed as a primary attacker in 9 out of the 11 matchups you consider winnable. Also, you have yet to prove why its superior to Mageel. Everything you listed Reshiram or Typhlosion doing in those matchups Zekrom and/or Thundurus can do better with Eel support, and the heavier focus on Magnezone helps for everything it does.

 

[alex]

MagneBoar after Next Destinies is going to be a huge contender thanks to Reshiram EX and Heavy Ball. Heavy Ball easily searches out Magnezone and Emboar, the basics can just be searched out regularly with Collector. Reshiram EX starts pumping out 150 turn 2, and it can't even be return ko'd by another EX if you flip heads or have an Eviolite. Magnezone just cleans up the mess and takes out any EX's that show up.

 

[scizorlicious]

@glaceon, it's frustrating to argue against you when you assume you will ALWAYS have a Magnezone in play that will ALWAYS have enough energy on it to OHKO your opponent. That's just not going to happen, especially when you're playing it with Typhlosion (have fun being down a couple prizes to start out).

Oh, and after you use Lost Burn, you can't just get those energy back with Typhlosion's 'Power. You will have to find a way to get energy (which you will first have to obtain each turn) in the discard (which you will not be able to consistently do) to be able to attach 3 energy per turn to your Magnezone (150 damage being the number Magnezone needs to hit to OHKO most stuff). Sure, if you're able to do 150 per turn with a 140-HP Pokémon with built-in draw, you're set.

But you won't.

Typhlosion already has a problem getting set up– Catcher is climbin' in yo windows, snatchin' yo Cyndaquil up even without another Stage 2 line in the deck, so to be reliant, as Dark Void said, on getting Magnezone up as well in 9 of 11 matchups is completely ridiculous.

 

[Glace]

Actually, with 4 Rare Candy (UL 82), 3 Pokemon Communication (HGSS 98) , 4 Judge (UL 78), 4 Junk Arm (TR 87), and 3 Sage's Training (CL 85) Its not very hard.

Out of 10 games, I get a turn 2/3 Magnezone 4 times, and a turn 4 Magnezone 3 times. Then sometimes I don't focus at all on Magnezone.

I know that I'll have enough energy to ohko my opponent because a turn 1 attachment, turn 2 attachment, and turn 3 attachment, plus a possible afterburner will leave me with enough energy. I burn no more than 3 energy.

I know that after you lost burn you don't get your energies back, but I can get more energy into the discard through Junk Arm, Sages, and even retreat.

I won't suppose that I have a Magnezone in play, but then that's saying Reshiboar shouldn't suppose to have an Emboar in play, and EelZone shouldn't supposed to have a Magnezone in play.

I know Typhlosion has a set up problem- exactly why Magnezone helps.

so to be reliant, as Dark Void said, on getting Magnezone up as well in 9 of 11 matchups is completely ridiculous.

Well then being reliant on getting a Magnezone up in EelZone is ridiculous? Seriously?
In a deck that is consistent, you'll be able to quickly get up Magnezone.

 

[clubsodas]

I'm joining this thread late, but from what I've read some points should be cleared.

Reshiphlosion is still a decent deck. It has good match-ups against decks that are untested, for example CaKE before it became popular. In addition to having favorable match-ups against untested decks it has winnable match-ups against tested decks.

I'm gonna go over a general list of match-ups. I'm not going to do a Tier 1, Tier 2 list. In my opinion Tier lists are specific to your local meta game, for example in Florida, Durant could be considered a Tier 1 deck, but around the country Durant would be considered a Tier 2 deck. Instead I'll list the popular decks that are being played.

ZPST - Arguably one of the hardest match-ups for any deck. If they have access to Pokemon Catcher early game and are able to attack on their turn 1, then you will probably lose this match.

Magnezone/Eelektrik (EelZone) - This deck has strong match-ups across the board. If they are able to get a turn 3 Magnezone, and access to Pokemon Catcher, you will probably lose this match. One card that benefits Reshiphlosion in this matchup is Rocky Helmet. If you are able to get a Rocky Helmet on a Reshiram or a Typhlosion and they attack a Pokemon with Rocky Helmet attached then the Magnezone is setup for a return K.O. by Reshiram. With that being said, I think this match favors EelZone.

CaKE/CoKe - Playing this deck is risky in general. Based off of consistency, I think Reshiphlosion is favored in this match-up. With that being said, if your opponent is able to get a Kyurem attacking with Glaciate on their turn 2, you will probably lose the match unless you are able to setup an attacking Reshiram with access to Plus Power.

Gothitelle - If you get out more than one Rocky Helmet on an attacker then Reshiphlosion should win. If they setup an early Gothitelle and Reuniclus, then you'll probably lose.

google.deck - If you get a Rocky Helmet on an attacker then you should win.

Durant - With the exception of them getting very lucky with their Devour's then you should win this matchup. Get an attacking Typhlosion, Cleffa on the bench, and a Reshiram or another Typhlosion (probably not likely) on the bench then you should win this match most of the time.

Chandelure/Vileplume - Chandelure generally loses to a Reshiram attacking with Rocky Helmet attached. If they choose not to attack you, they shouldn't be able to heal off the damage fast enough with Blissey Prime.

Chandelure without Vilplume - I'm not even sure this is a viable deck. It may work in some areas if you get lucky, but it's too weak to Pokemon Catcher.

Big Basics - This is definitely in Reshiphlosions favor. With an attack Typhlosion using Flare Destroy on their Special Energy Cards, they will have a very difficult time recovering.

Zekrom/Eelektrik/Tornadus (ZET) - This matchup depends on who get's setup first. It's easier for Reshiram to K.O. Eeelektrik's than it is for Zekrom and/or Tornadus to K.O. Typhlosion's. However, Eelektrik is a Stage 1 Pokemon while Typhlosion is a Stage 2 Pokemon, so they should setup Eelektrik before you can setup a Typhlosion. This is a matchup I would consider to be 50/50

Random.deck - Reshiphlosion should win, the deck is very consistent and hit's most attackers for neutral damage.

The match-ups I've present could be argued, but they are my opinion, not fact. I think Reshiphlosion suffers from the same problems that all decks face, going first, and setting up before your opponent. In any of these matches, if Reshiphlosion sets up before it's opponent, then it has a good chance of winning.

In regards to the viability of Reshiphlosion when the EX set is released, I like the additions for Reshiphlosion. Reshiphlosion has access to most of the good EX cards that are released in the set. They can utilize Mewtwo EX as well as any of the other decks, and it also gets Reshiram EX.

If you noticed I didn't list Magneboar or Reshiboar in my match-ups list. I didn't list them because I don't think they gained enough from the Noble Victories set to be worth playing.

Deck choice should reflect your meta game.

[/sand=clubsodas] -Celebi23

 

[alex]

When are you ever going to only Lost Burn for 2? Almost every single played pokemon needs to have Magnezone Lost Burn 3. How are you supposed to get those 3 every turn with one Typhlosion and one energy attachment? Eelzone's energy supplier is a Stage 1, it is so much easier to get multiples of them out. MagneBoar only needs a single Emboar out in order to get the energy it needs every turn. TyRamZone doesn't have a single thing ahead of MagneBoar or Eelzone, there is not a single situation in which it would be the best choice of the three.

EDIT: Ninja'd. This was to Glaceon.

 

[Glace]

You usually don't use Lost Burn more than once before switching to Reshiram.

Anyways, I don't see the point of arguing anymore, despite my testing results. I agree to disagree (with just about everyone lol)

 

[alex]

So then your just teching in like 3-1-3 to use its attack a single time during the entire game? In your matchups list, you say how important it is in so many matchups.

 

[Celebi23]

Glaceon, come on. I thought you were better than this. You've tied yourself in a knot. Your argument is completely illogical. I won't bother responding to most of it, but I remember you said that Truth is less Twins-reliant than Magneboar in one post, and some other crazy and outlandish things.

I will respond to your last post.

Actually, with 4 Rare Candy (UL 82), 3 Pokemon Communication (HGSS 98) , 4 Judge (UL 78), 4 Junk Arm (TR 87), and 3 Sage's Training (CL 85) Its not very hard.
What's stopping Magneboar from being able to do the exact same thing? It runs all of these cards too. Except Judge, which isn't even consistency. Why would you ever use it over N in Magneboar or Magnephlosion? N is infinitely better.

Out of 10 games, I get a turn 2/3 Magnezone 4 times, and a turn 4 Magnezone 3 times. Then sometimes I don't focus at all on Magnezone.
A turn four Magnezone is pathetic, though. And that's your average. 3/10 games you say you can't even get that.

I know that I'll have enough energy to ohko my opponent because a turn 1 attachment, turn 2 attachment, and turn 3 attachment, plus a possible afterburner will leave me with enough energy. I burn no more than 3 energy.
You just said above you only get a Magnezone by T3 2/5 times. And when does Typhlosion come into play? It had better be by T3, too.

I know that after you lost burn you don't get your energies back, but I can get more energy into the discard through Junk Arm, Sages, and even retreat.
How many energy are you running? I'd assume no more than 14, at which point you only get four three-energy Lost Burns.

I won't suppose that I have a Magnezone in play, but then that's saying Reshiboar shouldn't suppose to have an Emboar in play, and EelZone shouldn't supposed to have a Magnezone in play.
No. It's not. At all. Reshiboar only needs Emboar out. That's the only Stage 2 it needs out. EelZone only needs Magnezone out. That's the only Stage 2 it needs out. Magnephlosion needs both Typhlosion and Magnezone out. And it won't function without Typhlosion. But going for Typhlosion first often means you can't get Magnezone out, since your hand dies after getting the first Stage 2. There's a huge difference between one Stage 2 and 2-3 Stage 2's.

I know Typhlosion has a set up problem- exactly why Magnezone helps.
So you go for Magnezone before Typhlosion? The deck doesn't function without Typhlosion, though.



Well then being reliant on getting a Magnezone up in EelZone is ridiculous? Seriously?
In a deck that is consistent, you'll be able to quickly get up Magnezone.
Again. Magnezone vs Magnezone and 1-2 Typhlosion. Huge difference.

But don't even respond to that, because you're arguing the wrong thing. You should be arguing Eelzone vs Magnephlosion, since they are actually comparable decks. Magneboar attaches from the hand and is built around big damage late-game, while the first two are somewhat focused on early-game damage and attach from the discard. Also, the OP wanted to decide between some Reshiram variant and Eelzone. He wasn't interested in Magneboar.

In favor of Eelzone:

1. Eelzone runs one energy type, MT runs two.
2. Eelzone accelerates with Stage 1's, MT accelerates with Stage 2's.
3. Eelzone has Thundurus for early-game; a card that is not reliant on having any other part of the deck setup to start attacking. Reshiram needs Typhlosion out to work early game.
4. Eelzone doesn't do self-damage when it attaches. MT does.
5. Zekrom is a much less resource-heavy attacker than Reshiram is, but it does the same amount of damage.

In favor of MT:

1. Bulkier energy acceleration with more usable attack.
2. Can accelerate to the active.

Please explain to me why Magnezone/Typhlosion is the better of these two decks.