Rayquaza EX / Eelektrik
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PellOfTheTundra said:
Can you enlighten us with this mumbo jumbo speak of yours?
We are here to discuss Rayquaza EX/Eels so you will need to offer concrete points aside from that cryptic post of yours.
At any rate Esa just published a list of Victini EX Rayquaza EX Eels in his blog The Deck Out.
Re: RE: Rayquaza EX / Eelektrik
Victory Dragon Rider is a joke deck my friends and I made.
The point I am making is that I prefer a joke deck to a deck that runs a 110 HP EX as the preferred starter and probably wastes its AceSpec on Victory Piece.
RobertBenjamin said:
Victory Dragon Rider is a joke deck my friends and I made.
The point I am making is that I prefer a joke deck to a deck that runs a 110 HP EX as the preferred starter and probably wastes its AceSpec on Victory Piece.
It only shows that you don't even bother to read completely some posts made in this forum. Look at the skeleton I posted is there any Victory Piece in it? Besides no competitive player will ever use Victory Piece in their Ray Eels deck. Are you seriously assuming that players are that stupid to use that ACE SPEC in an Eels deck?
Now let me quote what Esa wrote in The Deck Out about Victini EX Eels :
" I love it, because in my opinion it does what I thought would never be possible – this list makes RayEels viable even in MY opinion. I have always hated all Eelektrik decks, but thanks to Victini EX, you are able to energy accelerate your attackers while set upping your Eelektriks.
Your opponent must concentrate their early game on the Victini EX or otherwise, they will be OHKOed very quickly by Rayquaza EX. Granted, Victini EX is too easy prizes, but the cost you have to pay for getting a set-up and your Rayquaza EXs ready for attack is much more than the two prizes you have to lose, so it’s a very good trade for you."
And yes I fully agree with him, it is worth the gamble to use a 110 HP pokemon because of what it brings on the table. Besides when you are playing Eels you are already gambling on a 30-40 HP starter but once you evolve it to its stage 1 it brings alot to the table as well.
Now let me quote what Esa wrote in The Deck Out about Victini EX Eels :
" I love it, because in my opinion it does what I thought would never be possible – this list makes RayEels viable even in MY opinion. I have always hated all Eelektrik decks, but thanks to Victini EX, you are able to energy accelerate your attackers while set upping your Eelektriks.
Your opponent must concentrate their early game on the Victini EX or otherwise, they will be OHKOed very quickly by Rayquaza EX. Granted, Victini EX is too easy prizes, but the cost you have to pay for getting a set-up and your Rayquaza EXs ready for attack is much more than the two prizes you have to lose, so it’s a very good trade for you."
And yes I fully agree with him, it is worth the gamble to use a 110 HP pokemon because of what it brings on the table. Besides when you are playing Eels you are already gambling on a 30-40 HP starter but once you evolve it to its stage 1 it brings alot to the table as well.
Re: RE: Rayquaza EX / Eelektrik
Where are you using a 30 HP starter? I only see 40 HP tynamos used.
Also, I said PROBABLY wastes it on Victory Piece. I have seen so many go this route, and end up high and dry when I scrap it.
Honestly though, 2 prizes for possible early acceleration and a waste of 2-3 slots isn't exactly my idea of a good gamble, especially with T2 Dark Claw Night Spears becoming increasingly more common. With an average of only 5 Fire Energy in your deck (which you cannot get back), is it worth it to nerf your chances at getting another fire energy and give up two prizes, just to possibly get a faster start? If that gamble is worth it to you... I wish you the best of luck.
RobertBenjamin said:
Where are you using a 30 HP starter? I only see 40 HP tynamos used.
Also, I said PROBABLY wastes it on Victory Piece. I have seen so many go this route, and end up high and dry when I scrap it.
Honestly though, 2 prizes for possible early acceleration and a waste of 2-3 slots isn't exactly my idea of a good gamble, especially with T2 Dark Claw Night Spears becoming increasingly more common. With an average of only 5 Fire Energy in your deck (which you cannot get back), is it worth it to nerf your chances at getting another fire energy and give up two prizes, just to possibly get a faster start? If that gamble is worth it to you... I wish you the best of luck.
Fire energies which you cannot get back? Do you know Super Rod is staple of current Eels builds? We are talking of competitive play here so you should expect them to have Super Rod.
Again we are talking of competitive play so why do you need to bring up Victory Piece when clearly Victini EX is used for early game acceleration and not for attacking. Do you remember Celebi Prime in CMT in last year's format? Victini EX does a similar role.
It is also very clear that you haven't bothered to play test this deck deeply since you are limiting yourself to 5 fire energies. 6 Fire energies gives it more consistency.
I've tested my current against what you perceive "high and mighty" Speed Darkrai deck and it holds on its own against it. So what if your T2 Night Spear OHKOes the Victini EX if the Rayquaza EX gets the revenge KO? Or worse if I get first turn and Rayquaza EX OHKOes your Darkrai without you even making a chance of a T2 Night Spear =p? Which has a better chance of powering up its next attack in the exchange?
I know and accept Speed Darkrai is a good deck but im not so myopic to deny the benefits of Victini EX to Eels. It is very much worth the gamble.
Again we are talking of competitive play so why do you need to bring up Victory Piece when clearly Victini EX is used for early game acceleration and not for attacking. Do you remember Celebi Prime in CMT in last year's format? Victini EX does a similar role.
It is also very clear that you haven't bothered to play test this deck deeply since you are limiting yourself to 5 fire energies. 6 Fire energies gives it more consistency.
I've tested my current against what you perceive "high and mighty" Speed Darkrai deck and it holds on its own against it. So what if your T2 Night Spear OHKOes the Victini EX if the Rayquaza EX gets the revenge KO? Or worse if I get first turn and Rayquaza EX OHKOes your Darkrai without you even making a chance of a T2 Night Spear =p? Which has a better chance of powering up its next attack in the exchange?
I know and accept Speed Darkrai is a good deck but im not so myopic to deny the benefits of Victini EX to Eels. It is very much worth the gamble.
PellOfTheTundra said:
Really? Is this what you can only bring to the discussion? Grammar?
He's probably lost the argument, hence the grammar nazi-ing. Same case as what happened to me. He couldn't accept the fact that Reshiram can be a PKK counter.
I would be more than willing to test out Victini Eels when I get bored of White Tea.
I would be more than willing to test out Victini Eels when I get bored of White Tea.
Re: RE: Rayquaza EX / Eelektrik
No. I actually didn't lose the argument. I'd be more inclined to continue arguing if I could understand what he said. It's not grammar Nazism, it's me being unable to continue.
And who said Reshi can't be a PKK counter? It can... in the right deck. Victini NVI 15 is much more managable in this one, or even just using baby Ray.
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Riskbreakers said:
No. I actually didn't lose the argument. I'd be more inclined to continue arguing if I could understand what he said. It's not grammar Nazism, it's me being unable to continue.
And who said Reshi can't be a PKK counter? It can... in the right deck. Victini NVI 15 is much more managable in this one, or even just using baby Ray.
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PellOfTheTundra said:
You really don't need perfect grammar to understand what he said, you just need comprehension skills. XD
Regardless, Victini Eels looks like the real deal, don't just scoff it off and say "my fun deck is better than this piece of crap". At least test the deck before you even say stuff like that.
Re: RE: Rayquaza EX / Eelektrik
Oh my science. This is the third time people like you have said "test it before you bash it." And I have tested it. And I hate it. I hate losing the easy 2 prizes T1 or T2, and it often makes me fall so far behind that I just cannot catch up. Now, the idea of Victini in Rayeels at all is not what I am against, but I have much better success when I limit it to one-of, and not waste 3 slots with an EX opener. Having one means sure, it will be Ultra Ball fodder a lot of the time, but if I do start with it, I get a bit of a boosta-boost and don't waste 3 slots on it.
As for me not understanding his post, I just cannot read it and comprehend what he is trying to get across. I want to respond, but I just can't.
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Riskbreakers said:
Oh my science. This is the third time people like you have said "test it before you bash it." And I have tested it. And I hate it. I hate losing the easy 2 prizes T1 or T2, and it often makes me fall so far behind that I just cannot catch up. Now, the idea of Victini in Rayeels at all is not what I am against, but I have much better success when I limit it to one-of, and not waste 3 slots with an EX opener. Having one means sure, it will be Ultra Ball fodder a lot of the time, but if I do start with it, I get a bit of a boosta-boost and don't waste 3 slots on it.
As for me not understanding his post, I just cannot read it and comprehend what he is trying to get across. I want to respond, but I just can't.
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Victini EX can be a really good turn one starter, even though it has low HP for an EX, it can give you a huge speed boost early game, and even a comeback late game, even against Blastoise/Keldeo, if it comes out turn one, fetches for 3 energy and next turn you donk his Keldeo/Blastoise/Black Kyurem EX with your Ray Ex, it can be really though for the Blastoise player
That is why you need to play 3 Victini EX and 5-6 (I run 6) Fire energies if you want to have consistent good starts.
RobertBenjamin said:
Or you play Emolga...
It gives you freetreat, doesn't cost you 2 easy prizes (and since you use essentially all EXs to attack, can force them to take a 7th prize sometimes), and sets you up better for the long term. 2 energy on board is much less effective than 2 Eels on board. Also, it's less deck space since you can fish it with level ball. I play 2 Emolga alongside a fairly normal energy/trainer line for Rayeels and get a T1 CFF about 90%+ of games, and fill my bench by T2 at the latest (which not only is a testament to setting up, but helps use Victini NVI 15 well to beat Klinklangs consistently)
Seriously, I thought Emolga was terrible, then I used it. It is the key card in a smooth Rayeels. Also, another card that's cool alongside it is a single copy of energy switch to basically save your T1 attachment at some point in the game.
