Possible Fix for Unlmited

[InfiniteMasterEx]

In an effort to revive and fix the Unlimited format, I thought of an idea to create a restriction list. This is what I built so far (assuming all erratas are in effect):

Banned (Gamebreaking):
Gust of Wind (BS)
Lass (BS)
Double Colorless Energy (BS)
Blastoise (BS)
Vileplume ex (HL)
Pichu (Neo1) *

Restricted (1 per deck, very powerful archtype):
Sneasal (Neo1)
Slowking (Neo1)
Imposter Oak's Revenge (TR) +
Professor Oak (BS) V
Super Energy Removal (BS)

Limited (2 per deck, overpowered but managable if controlled):

PlusPower (BS)
Defender (BS)
Energy Removal (BS)
Rocket's Sneak Attack (TR)
Computer Search (BS)
The Rocket's Trap (TK)
Cleffa (Neo1)
Tyrogue (Neo2) VV

* - need debating
^ - moved up
V - Moved down
+ - New addition

The goal of the list is to make a lot more cards, from EX to Base, usuable and to make Unlimited balanced. Instead of having the few plausible decks in Unlimited (may also refer to Modified...), I wish that with the broken cards gone, decks from Metanite to Haymaker and more can be used and we have a format where deck building becomes an artform (lol artform.) For example, banning of Tyrogue makes a lot more fighting-weak pokemon to be used. No more of the usual Oak and resticted Comp Search means people have to look at the other drawing powers available.

Everyone, please give suggestions! This format needs to be revived! Anyone with me?

EDIT1 11/1: Removed BS Electabuzz, NG Murkrow, Double Gust, and Team Rocket's Zapdos. Moved BS Blastoise to Banned and Sneasal to Resricted. Added Vileplume ex to Banned.

EDIT2 11/4: Added new legends. Add Imposter Oak's Revenge to banned, Elekid to restricted, and The Rocket's Trap to limited

 

[milotic]

I am with you. This is how we play at school. Instead of banning sets it would be a better idea to just ban certain cards.
You may want to add aerodactyl fossil to your list.
I think plus power is going to be reprinted in D/P.

 

[Abhorsen]

None of this will actually happen since but may as well say something about it...

If this is Unlimited for every set so far (including up to CG and DF) then your list is way off. I would have agreed with most of that pre-RS but now some of those listed are unnecessary. You're listing decks that were powerful pre-RS. Times have changed, so have decks.

Sneasal was only broken in its time because Slowking stopped any form of trainer use. Sneasal was owned by ER and SER but seeing as 4 Slowkings stopped that then it became broken. Slowking should be restricted and Sneasal should be limited. Murkrow is useless now really. It was only good since it could Mean Look babies which had no attacks to do damage anyway. All basics these days do some sort of damage or evolve to do damage. Rocket's Zapdos is weak now. It really was only powerful back in its day because Dark and Metal energy had different rulings then. Plus EEEC for 70 and self damage is absolutely crap these days, not only but ER and SER own it. It fits right in the normal list, doesn't need any restrictions at all. Same goes for Electabuzz (BS). It was powerful in its day but NOW it's seriously not worth it.

Vileplume ex should be banned. It's absolute abuse of non-trainer use. In this respect it can be worse than Slowking. Suicune ex should be restricted/Limited too. Comboed with Blastoise and Slowking and you've got yourself a broken combo. You only need 1 Blastoise for energy and 4 Suicune ex for ownage, so a limit of 2 or 1 would be needed IMO. Oh and Aerodactyl fossil doesn't really need it. Candy, Breeder, Wally's Training and evolving attacks/pokepowers get past it. Most people wouldn't need to worry that much. You could have it Limited, but any more than that is simply not needed.

There's probably more things I can think of but that's all atm.

 

[(TYranitarFReak)]

is double gust that good?

 

[Abhorsen]

is double gust that good?

Not really. It can harm you just as much as the other person. It's nowhere near as good as normal GOW and would be fair to have 4 in a deck, but if you're really paranoid about it then have 2 at max, but even that's stretching it.

 

[InfiniteMasterEx]

Yeah, I also doubt this will be used in any official tourneys but since the format is pretty much only supported by players (POP isn't touching it at all) I might as well give a try to revive it. I Once the list is finalized, I can try running a OCTGN tourney with the new format, see how it it, and then spread the word to other players! Not a good chance it will spread like wildfire but you'll never know until you try.

Alright updated.

- Removed BS Electabuzz, NG Murkrow, Double Gust, and Team Rocket's Zapdos.
- Rather than Suicune ex, moved BS Blastoise to Banned. Suicune, itself, was not broken but because of Blastoise. Blastoise can be used with pokemon other than Suicune and I believe the FRLG is the more balanced one.
- Moved Sneasal to restricted. I know you said that you said that Sneasal should be limited and Slowking restricted, Abhorsen, but reading your post and seeing as there are more trainer denial other than Slowking that Sneasal can utilize (e.x. Dark Vileplume, Team Rocket's Secret Attack), it's more of Sneasal that makes it broken than Slowking.
- Added Vileplume ex to banned, although supporters can still be used (and with Oak is banned and Comp Search is limited, I see supporters getting more use) and it has to be active, I'm unsure. Someone else want to add to this?

Aerodactyl is not worth restricting IMO. Like Abhorsen said, it can be loopholed by Rare Candy, Wally's Training, and Breeder. Rare Candy is widely used and Wally is seen not too uncommmon so it's not too horrible.

Keep on the suggestions guys!

 

[Whicker]

Super Energy Removal probably needs to be banned. Slow formats with longer games are the more fun to play in, and SER just takes this all away. Even at 2 per deck, slower, evolution- based decks without trainer denial will still be useless. And for the most part, all types of decks should be viable. Energy Removal is ok at 2, however.
I'd also ban Imposter Oak's Revenge and The Rocket's Trap. With the current restriction list, it is still way too easy to Erika 4 times, Imposter Oak's Revenge, Trap 3 cards, and then use one of your two Sneak Attack's. This combo becomes even worse with Oak banned and Cleffa limited to two, because it just makes it next to impossible to recover.
If you really want to go to extremes, I'd limit Chaos Gym to two. It would just be that much more powerful with a restriction list.

 

[Roy 747]

i don't know why u think that wiggly ex is so good but nevertheless it is not from HL it's FRLG and maybe bill should b limited

 

[Papi/Manny]

Ummm, this isn't yu-gi-oh. You can't ban a card for being too good. Theres too many cards to choose from. Some new combo will be found that will make some of those listed not as good and others "ban worthy". Unlimited is fine the way it is.

 

[(TYranitarFReak)]

Ummm, this isn't yu-gi-oh. You can't ban a card for being too good. Theres too many cards to choose from. Some new combo will be found that will make some of those listed not as good and others "ban worthy". Unlimited is fine the way it is.

but I'm also feeling unfair if those cards weren't banned / restricted. just think , what decks WILL and ALWAYS win unlimited? yea u know the content: ER, SER, murkrow NG, vileplume ex, blasty + suicune ex, baby pokemons, GOW, prof oak, slowking, wigglytuff ex, aerodactyl base, chaos gym, dark vileplume.....

it's lame to play the same ol deck each and everytime... especially new expansions doesnt contain card that are good enough to make an impact to unlimited...

who will play unlimited if only few decks could work ?

 

[Light Venusaur]

Ummm, this isn't yu-gi-oh. You can't ban a card for being too good. Theres too many cards to choose from. Some new combo will be found that will make some of those listed not as good and others "ban worthy". Unlimited is fine the way it is.

but I'm also feeling unfair if those cards weren't banned / restricted. just think , what decks WILL and ALWAYS win unlimited? yea u know the content: ER, SER, murkrow NG, vileplume ex, blasty + suicune ex, baby pokemons, GOW, prof oak, slowking, wigglytuff ex, aerodactyl base, chaos gym, dark vileplume.....

it's lame to play the same ol deck each and everytime... especially new expansions doesnt contain card that are good enough to make an impact to unlimited...

who will play unlimited if only few decks could work ?

I would!
Mind u love to play my Misty deck once again.

 

[InfiniteMasterEx]

Ummm, this isn't yu-gi-oh. You can't ban a card for being too good. Theres too many cards to choose from. Some new combo will be found that will make some of those listed not as good and others "ban worthy". Unlimited is fine the way it is.

Too many cards to choose from? Okay, how about this: There a lot of unique and good drawing cards like Misty's Wrath and Forest Guardian but no one uses them because Oak is available. How is that a wide option? Oak is too good and everyone abuses it, leaving other draw cards ignored. New combos found? Pfft. It's the same old, same old. Use broken cards or you phailz!

IMO, Unlimited is NOT fine the way it is. The fact is, every unlimited deck contains the same broken cards because they are too good and the other options are left to dust. If you do competetive play, you know that Double Team is banned because 1) the calculation formula is broken 2) any pokemon can use it and 3) since phazers cannot stop it, everyone would have to resort to hazers and limit their wide options for the team member. Sounds like: Gust of Wind. All decks benefit from Gust of Wind and it forces People to bring trainer denial cards like Slowking; otherwise, Gust of Wind would trash them.

Am I trying to stop every deck in the book becuase they are really good? Hardly. I'm trying to rally for a restriction lists that limits cards that are harmful to the Unlimited metagame. With no more broken cards to worry about, people can actually use "too many cards to choose from" to make newer combos and thus make newer decks, something nearly nonexistant nowadays. That's what I'm trying to encourage.

 

[Abhorsen]

Ummm, this isn't yu-gi-oh. You can't ban a card for being too good. Theres too many cards to choose from. Some new combo will be found that will make some of those listed not as good and others "ban worthy". Unlimited is fine the way it is.

InfiniteMasterEx is trying to do the right thing. Unlimited in its current state is literally unplayable. There are about 5 viable decks because of the cards that have been listed as banned/restricted/limited. What fun is a game when there are only 5 win-able decks and the rest are mere nothing? It's stupid really. The idea of this is to make the Unlimited format playable not lame-able.

 

[Alchemist_Almighty]

I agree. At our league, we just banned the Base Set altogether. That got rid of GOW, DC energy, Computer Search, Oak, Item Finder, Lass, and unfortunately for me, Alakazam. You're still left with fun combos like Erika/Imposter Oak's Revenge but it gets rid of the "staple" cards. Unlimited just isn't fun. You are allowed no room for creativity, because the archetype decks will shove any deviance from the staple formula down your throat. I'm up for some balance. That's why I prefer modified over unlimited.

 

[Lieutenant Houndoom]

As much as I support this, it's unlikely that any Unlimited player you come across will agree to your terms of play. Looks like winning is what matters, not how much of a cheapstake you look like while doing it.

 

[Papi/Manny]

Ummm, this isn't yu-gi-oh. You can't ban a card for being too good. Theres too many cards to choose from. Some new combo will be found that will make some of those listed not as good and others "ban worthy". Unlimited is fine the way it is.

Too many cards to choose from? Okay, how about this: There a lot of unique and good drawing cards like Misty's Wrath and Forest Guardian but no one uses them because Oak is available. How is that a wide option? Oak is too good and everyone abuses it, leaving other draw cards ignored. New combos found? Pfft. It's the same old, same old. Use broken cards or you phailz!

IMO,cards because they are too good and the other options are left to dust. If you Unlimited is NOT fine the way it is. The fact is, every unlimited deck contains the same broken do competetive play, you know that Double Team is banned because 1) the calculation formula is broken 2) any pokemon can use it and 3) since phazers cannot stop it, everyone would have to resort to hazers and limit their wide options for the team member. Sounds like: Gust of Wind. All decks benefit from Gust of Wind and it forces People to bring trainer denial cards like Slowking; otherwise, Gust of Wind would trash them.

Am I trying to stop every deck in the book becuase they are really good? Hardly. I'm trying to rally for a restriction lists that limits cards that are harmful to the Unlimited metagame. With no more broken cards to worry about, people can actually use "too many cards to choose from" to make newer combos and thus make newer decks, something nearly nonexistant nowadays. That's what I'm trying to encourage.

Okay, first off, you do realize unlimited is a dead format?? All it is is a FUN format, where you can play 99.9% of all cards. Since its a fun format, you can't honestly expect me to believe that everyone plays the same deck? Sure, some cards are staples...why though?? Because their deck needs speed and thus use oak over wrath or elm (which would help in a gatr deck, for example). I see bill+oracle being better then oak in 80% of all situations. Double team? 2-2 isn't played. If you mean team battles, then, again, THEY ARE FOR FUN, not competive play. If both players play GOW, then obviously it can trashs both of them, not just one. Therefore, you can't ban them because 1) your not in charge of unlimited, and 2) they balance each other out. If you add a ban list, all people will do is play modified decks with cleffa and lass and draw and thus it will be a quicker game of modified...There are plenty of legit decks to play in unlimited, and they all use some unique combo that wins them games. Again, unlimtied is a dead format that is for fun purposes to a few friends bored on a weekend, not for some crazy yu-gi-oh-type super ban thing because you think some cards are too good. Lass is good because of cleffa, which is good because of stable basics (e.g. sneasel, buzz), which are good because they can abuse areodactl, which is good because it makes aggron and ninjask sick, which are good because of candy, which is good because of its speed...but gets cancelled by lass...sounds like a loop to me. Thats just one example...how you even tested out any other decks??? I see t1 bannette working out very nicely in unlimited, t1 catty, the ungodly-but-forgotten lock of oaks revenge+rockets sneak attack+the rocket's trap, wobby (LM), slowking, piloswine (neo2?), and mercrow, dark amphy+amphy ex+other dark amphy, or some other deck that I haven't listed thought of yet (t1 lbs? psyco bar? insane gardy swarm?? massive pow-block t1?). The possiblities are seriously UNLIMITED.

 

[InfiniteMasterEx]

As much as I support this, it's unlikely that any Unlimited player you come across will agree to your terms of play.  Looks like winning is what matters, not how much of a cheapstake you look like while doing it.

If winning is all they care about, then they're probably not good players worth playing. I thought the TCG was made for fun and competetiveness, but not to the point where winning is the center in life...

Okay, first off, you do realize unlimited is a dead format??

If it isn't, then why am I trying to revive it?

All it is is a FUN format, where you can play 99.9% of all cards. Since its a fun format, you can't honestly expect me to believe that everyone plays the same deck? Sure, some cards are staples...why though?? Because their deck needs speed and thus use oak over wrath or elm (which would help in a gatr deck, for example).

In terms of casual play, then yes, anything is usable. Cannot be said the same for competetive scene (few as they are) though. And the "staples" you talk about make every other new cards that have nearly the same use useless.

I see bill+oracle being better then oak in 80% of all situations.

Ohh, but two-card combos are not reliable in a format where Slowkings are prevailant which can shut down any combo relying on multiple trainers and Lass and RSA getting rid of one of the combo from your hand, making the other much weaker.

Double team? 2-2 isn't played. If you mean team battles, then, again, THEY ARE FOR FUN, not competive play.

You severely misunderstand. I was talking about the banned move Double Team in the pokemon games, not the TCG...

If both players play GOW, then obviously it can trashs both of them, not just one. Therefore, you can't ban them because 1) your not in charge of unlimited, and 2) they balance each other out.

...forcing a player to use a broken card because the other does is not right. This makes each Unlimited deck boring. They're FORCED (keyword: FORCED) to pack GOW (among other broken cards) in order to actually win games or otherwise be trashed. Go reread my reasoning on Double Team, only this time, apply it to the RPG games...!

And who said that it would be only me that can change the entire unlimited format? I know I cannot do it by myself but what if the competetive players agree to use the list though? Like you said, Unlimited is dead so why cannot we as the players collaberate to actually make Unlimited fair?

If you add a ban list, all people will do is play modified decks with cleffa and lass and draw and thus it will be a quicker game of modified...There are plenty of legit decks to play in unlimited, and they all use some unique combo that wins them games.

Name more than 5 competetive, archtype decks in Unlimited that actually win games. If you do, look at their deck list and find the similarities. That, sir, is not unqiue.

Again, unlimtied is a dead format that is for fun purposes to a few friends bored on a weekend, not for some crazy yu-gi-oh-type super ban thing because you think some cards are too good.

That's okay for the casual players. What about the competetive players who want to use the same, massive library of cards over the limited sets in Modified?

Lass is good because of cleffa, which is good because of stable basics (e.g. sneasel, buzz), which are good because they can abuse areodactl, which is good because it makes aggron and ninjask sick, which are good because of candy, which is good because of its speed...but gets cancelled by lass...sounds like a loop to me. Thats just one example...how you even tested out any other decks???

Lass has always been good, even before Cleffa. Debunked.
Cleffa is good no matter if it is played with basics or evovled pokemon. Debunked.
Sneasal is generally percevied as broken anyways and, according to Abhorsen, buzz is hardly used anymore. Debunked.

3 parts "loop" has been shown that they can function without it. And yes, I have attemped to make new decks in unlimited, trying to avoid using cards that were "overpowered beyond belief." Turns out, GOW and Sneasal destroyed them.

I see t1 bannette working out very nicely in unlimited, t1 catty, the ungodly-but-forgotten lock of oaks revenge+rockets sneak attack+the rocket's trap, wobby (LM), slowking, piloswine (neo2?), and mercrow, dark amphy+amphy ex+other dark amphy, or some other deck that I haven't listed thought of yet (t1 lbs? psyco bar? insane gardy swarm?? massive pow-block t1?). The possiblities  are seriously UNLIMITED.

Possibilities are UNLIMITEd but the question is: Do they work? For example, Bannette is an ex and relies on supporters, slowing it very much while the other can freely oak for an oak. Also, that "forgotten combo" is still used I think.

Hey, if everyone still prefer to use the 100% free format where every card can be used, then they can. Maybe like in Yu-Gi-Oh, there's a tradition format and advanced. Tradition will be 100% all cards and advanced will be following the list. That would make both sides happy, no?

 

[Abhorsen]

Since its a fun format, you can't honestly expect me to believe that everyone plays the same deck?

Well you'd better believe it. Over time there are so many cards to use, yet only a few decks win because of the sheer brokenness of certain combos.

Off the top of my head, here are the only competitive decks in Unlimited. Anything else really doesn't stand much of a chance.
-Wiggly ex/Slowking
-Sneasal/Slowking
-Ninjask/Aerodactyl
-Blastoise/Suicune ex
-Vileplume ex/Something (can't remember what it was)

There's the main list of decks which can actually compete, or have a chance to. The combos are simply Uber where nothing else stands a chance.

Blastoise/Suicune ex is one of the main ones. It's immune to ER/SER and can do literally unlimited damage because of Blastoise. Just Oak, Oak, Oak, Fisherman, Powertree, or anything that gets you basic energy from your discard pile and then slap them on Suicune ex for 100+ damage... mind you this is T1. Ampharos ex gives it a little fight, but simply Pokemon Center and all gone. Lame.

 

[Papi/Manny]

As much as I support this, it's unlikely that any Unlimited player you come across will agree to your terms of play.  Looks like winning is what matters, not how much of a cheapstake you look like while doing it.

If winning is all they care about, then they're probably not good players worth playing. I thought the TCG was made for fun and competetiveness, but not to the point where winning is the center in life...

Okay, first off, you do realize unlimited is a dead format??

If it isn't, then why am I trying to revive it?

All it is is a FUN format, where you can play 99.9% of all cards. Since its a fun format, you can't honestly expect me to believe that everyone plays the same deck? Sure, some cards are staples...why though?? Because their deck needs speed and thus use oak over wrath or elm (which would help in a gatr deck, for example).

In terms of casual play, then yes, anything is usable. Cannot be said the same for competetive scene (few as they are) though. And the "staples" you talk about make every other new cards that have nearly the same use useless.

I see bill+oracle being better then oak in 80% of all situations.

Ohh, but two-card combos are not reliable in a format where Slowkings are prevailant which can shut down any combo relying on multiple trainers and Lass and RSA getting rid of one of the combo from your hand, making the other much weaker.

Double team? 2-2 isn't played. If you mean team battles, then, again, THEY ARE FOR FUN, not competive play.

You severely misunderstand. I was talking about the banned move Double Team in the pokemon games, not the TCG...

If both players play GOW, then obviously it can trashs both of them, not just one. Therefore, you can't ban them because 1) your not in charge of unlimited, and 2) they balance each other out.

...forcing a player to use a broken card because the other does is not right. This makes each Unlimited deck boring. They're FORCED (keyword: FORCED) to pack GOW (among other broken cards) in order to actually win games or otherwise be trashed. Go reread my reasoning on Double Team, only this time, apply it to the RPG games...!

And who said that it would be only me that can change the entire unlimited format? I know I cannot do it by myself but what if the competetive players agree to use the list though? Like you said, Unlimited is dead so why cannot we as the players collaberate to actually make Unlimited fair?

If you add a ban list, all people will do is play modified decks with cleffa and lass and draw and thus it will be a quicker game of modified...There are plenty of legit decks to play in unlimited, and they all use some unique combo that wins them games.

Name more than 5 competetive, archtype decks in Unlimited that actually win games. If you do, look at their deck list and find the similarities. That, sir, is not unqiue.

Again, unlimtied is a dead format that is for fun purposes to a few friends bored on a weekend, not for some crazy yu-gi-oh-type super ban thing because you think some cards are too good.

That's okay for the casual players. What about the competetive players who want to use the same, massive library of cards over the limited sets in Modified?

Lass is good because of cleffa, which is good because of stable basics (e.g. sneasel, buzz), which are good because they can abuse areodactl, which is good because it makes aggron and ninjask sick, which are good because of candy, which is good because of its speed...but gets cancelled by lass...sounds like a loop to me. Thats just one example...how you even tested out any other decks???

Lass has always been good, even before Cleffa. Debunked.
Cleffa is good no matter if it is played with basics or evovled pokemon. Debunked.
Sneasal is generally percevied as broken anyways and, according to Abhorsen, buzz is hardly used anymore. Debunked.

3 parts "loop" has been shown that they can function without it. And yes, I have attemped to make new decks in unlimited, trying to avoid using cards that were "overpowered beyond belief." Turns out, GOW and Sneasal destroyed them.

I see t1 bannette working out very nicely in unlimited, t1 catty, the ungodly-but-forgotten lock of oaks revenge+rockets sneak attack+the rocket's trap, wobby (LM), slowking, piloswine (neo2?), and mercrow, dark amphy+amphy ex+other dark amphy, or some other deck that I haven't listed thought of yet (t1 lbs? psyco bar? insane gardy swarm?? massive pow-block t1?). The possiblities  are seriously UNLIMITED.

Possibilities are UNLIMITEd but the question is: Do they work? For example, Bannette is an ex and relies on supporters, slowing it very much while the other can freely oak for an oak. Also, that "forgotten combo" is still used I think.

Hey, if everyone still prefer to use the 100% free format where every card can be used, then they can. Maybe like in Yu-Gi-Oh, there's a tradition format and advanced. Tradition will be 100% all cards and advanced will be following the list. That would make both sides happy, no?

You sound very similar to a person I absolutely HATE. I hope hes not you. On the first thing, I'm pretty sure that anybody would focuses on winning drives themselves to do so, and is, in turn, a better then average player usually. On your second thing, idk, I don't know you. Maybe your bored, or you have alot of unlimited cards, or you can't compete with todays metagame. Idk your story. But I haven't seen any "real" unlimited tournies played in years. For #3, I don't see candy being useless. Steven's is pretty nice in this too. I'm absoltely positive rockets admin will be played and can turn a game around. #4, not every deck plays broken cards. Why do you not understand this. Its a fun format, not where all these 1337 cards are abused to win nothing. Theres alot of cards that can work better then lass (oaks revenge, gatr UF) and a 2 card combo is what unlimtied is about (oak+candy in alot of situations is what I'm getting at here). But just because an oak is played doesn't mean its soo insane that you have to "ban it". For #5, I haven't played the video game in compitition, but why in the world would you ban double team??? Its a slow attack that can be counter like any other card in this game. #6, why are you forced to even play GOW??? Seriously, your over-rating it. People don't sit on the bench with thier gun powering up. They attack with it. Drop GOW for item finder...why is unlimited not fair? Because of the heads I win tails you lose rule? Well, if DP comes out, its going to be the other way, but besides that, you get to run the same cards if you choose, or run counters to those cards (believe it, every card has a counter, you just have to look outside the box). Again, unlimited is fun. Look at winning decks?? Well, if people actually played this format and tried out more then 1 deck, then I guess we could name archtypes. But since its not a real format nor comeptive, you can't. For your next comment, who actually wants to play this? If you want a massive deck selection, why would you ban cards? Debunked? Go get a real word and come back here. Anyways, whats your point? Maybe you didn't play a fast deck, which is unlimtied. If you sit there, of course your going to lose. For your last comment, I haven't played the decks because this is a FUN format, and I haven't had time to even test this format that much. However, I know for a fact that bannette would work. t1 you oak like crazy, candy into metagross and bannette, discard rapid supporters, and attack for 80+ t1. To Abhorsen: again, fun format. Not to go and buy cards to play. Theres nothing to gain out of it, so its not worth it.

 

[InfiniteMasterEx]

You sound very similar to a person I absolutely HATE. I hope hes not you. On the first thing, I'm pretty sure that anybody would focuses on winning drives themselves to do so, and is, in turn, a better then average player usually.

Well, this is the only Pokemon forum I registered and log on so I do not think we met before. And the goal of winning does push a person to be better. However, I said that there is more to the game than winning...

On your second thing, idk, I don't know you. Maybe your bored, or you have alot of unlimited cards, or you can't compete with todays metagame. Idk your story. But I haven't seen any "real" unlimited tournies played in years.

Your fault, I guess. Unlimited tourneys are rare but that doesn't mean they don't exist still.

For #3, I don't see candy being useless. Steven's is pretty nice in this too. I'm absoltely positive rockets admin will be played and can turn a game around.

Candy is not used by ALL decks though so you cannot really consider it a "staple" like Oak and Comp. Search. And all competitive unlimited deck generally contains for thier draw engine 4 Cleffas, 4 Oak, 4 Computer Search, and 4 Item Finder. Pretty much any other drawers are overshadowed and not used.

#4, not every deck plays broken cards. Why do you not understand this. Its a fun format, not where all these 1337 cards are abused to win nothing. Theres alot of cards that can work better then lass (oaks revenge, gatr UF) and a 2 card combo is what unlimtied is about (oak+candy in alot of situations is what I'm getting at here). But just because an oak is played doesn't mean its soo insane that you have to "ban it".

You never played competitive Unlimited, have you? You probably don't know what abuse is here.

For #5, I haven't played the video game in compitition, but why in the world would you ban double team??? Its a slow attack that can be counter like any other card in this game.

Slow attack... what? I don't remember the exact numbers but I think 1 DT makes even 100% accuracy moves drop to 65~50%. So theoretically, you survive 50~65% longer and that's only doing it once. Think what you can do two or three more times. Not only that, ANY pokemon can learn DT and there's no decent counter to it.

#6, why are you forced to even play GOW??? Seriously, your over-rating it. People don't sit on the bench with thier gun powering up. They attack with it. Drop GOW for item finder...why is unlimited not fair? Because of the heads I win tails you lose rule? Well, if DP comes out, its going to be the other way, but besides that, you get to run the same cards if you choose, or run counters to those cards (believe it, every card has a counter, you just have to look outside the box). Again, unlimited is fun.

I was going by what you said:

If both players play GOW, then obviously it can trashs both of them, not just one. Therefore, you can't ban them because 1) your not in charge of unlimited, and 2) they balance each other out.

Basically, you assume that both players will have GOW, so that it will balance out. So what if one player doesn't have GOW and the other does?

Overrated or not, it's still a overpowered card. And yes, I know every card has a counter (e.x. trainers like GOW is stopped by Vileplume ex) but, because it is so powerful, everyone has to bring a counter to it.

Look at winning decks?? Well, if people actually played this format and tried out more then 1 deck, then I guess we could name archtypes. But since its not a real format nor comeptive, you can't. For your next comment, who actually wants to play this? If you want a massive deck selection, why would you ban cards?

People still do play this format and it is a real format AND there is a competitive scene. Just because Modified is actually supported by Nintendo and POP doesn't mean Unlimited is truly extinct. And you make it sound like I'm banning like 4/5 of all cards created (That's Modified btw) when I'm only limiting like 15 out of 1000 cards. Omigosh, I can make only a few decks with 985 cards available!

Debunked? Go get a real word and come back here. Anyways, whats your point? Maybe you didn't play a fast deck, which is unlimtied. If you sit there, of course your going to lose.

de·bunk (d-bngk)
tr.v. de·bunked, de·bunk·ing, de·bunks
To expose or ridicule the falseness, sham, or exaggerated claims of: debunk a supposed miracle drug.

You've been debunked again.

For your last comment, I haven't played the decks because this is a FUN format, and I haven't had time to even test this format that much. However, I know for a fact that bannette would work. t1 you oak like crazy, candy into metagross and bannette, discard rapid supporters, and attack for 80+ t1. To Abhorsen: again, fun format. Not to go and buy cards to play. Theres nothing to gain out of it, so its not worth it.

Okay, you can do casual play. I'm trying to revive the competitive aspect of it.

And for unlimited cards, I don't buy cards seeing as they discontinued printing and buying cards in general eats up money. To save money and still have some fun, I use OCTGN.