New Phantom Force Decks
- Thread starter I1lucky
- Start date
I have done my best trying to make something out of the cards that will be released, but haven't come up with too much...
At first, we have variants of the Hyper Metal Chain deck, with bulky metal EX's and benched Bronzongs retrieving discarded energies. There's also various Gengar EX decks, the most common is probably going to be Gengar EX/Trevenant/Dragalge. These two decks are, if I have to guess, the only two decks that will be used in serious play coming from the new set. And, they're not very gamechanging, either. Gengar is good, but not great. I think his fall will be his attack cost. Metal Chain hits hard, but needs a lot of energies in the discard to be viable, so you'll be a sitting duck during the start of the game.
Next, I'd like to look at the fun budget decks that aren't really useful in competitive play, but can at least hold their own. But.. I can barely find any. There's Malamar EX/Honchcrow, using Malamar's ability to put the opponent to sleep to attack with Honchcrow for 120 damage relatively inexpensively, then sweeping with Malamar. There's also decks that uses M Manectric EX to attach a bunch of energies to either big basics (But I wouldn't really call this a new deck, just a tech to already existing ones), or my favourite, to Heliolisk who discards as many energies from your Pokemon in play as he wants, then hits 30 for each discarded energy.
Although, both of these decks heavily rely on Pokemon EX, which takes away the budget part of them. And out of all the other cards, I haven't really found anything that actually can be used to create a good deck.
Well, unless Slurpuff isn't mistranslated, and actually does prevent ALL effects of attacks done to him (This doesn't specify that it excludes damage, which for example Espeon DEX does!), then that's a whole different story!
At first, we have variants of the Hyper Metal Chain deck, with bulky metal EX's and benched Bronzongs retrieving discarded energies. There's also various Gengar EX decks, the most common is probably going to be Gengar EX/Trevenant/Dragalge. These two decks are, if I have to guess, the only two decks that will be used in serious play coming from the new set. And, they're not very gamechanging, either. Gengar is good, but not great. I think his fall will be his attack cost. Metal Chain hits hard, but needs a lot of energies in the discard to be viable, so you'll be a sitting duck during the start of the game.
Next, I'd like to look at the fun budget decks that aren't really useful in competitive play, but can at least hold their own. But.. I can barely find any. There's Malamar EX/Honchcrow, using Malamar's ability to put the opponent to sleep to attack with Honchcrow for 120 damage relatively inexpensively, then sweeping with Malamar. There's also decks that uses M Manectric EX to attach a bunch of energies to either big basics (But I wouldn't really call this a new deck, just a tech to already existing ones), or my favourite, to Heliolisk who discards as many energies from your Pokemon in play as he wants, then hits 30 for each discarded energy.
Although, both of these decks heavily rely on Pokemon EX, which takes away the budget part of them. And out of all the other cards, I haven't really found anything that actually can be used to create a good deck.
Well, unless Slurpuff isn't mistranslated, and actually does prevent ALL effects of attacks done to him (This doesn't specify that it excludes damage, which for example Espeon DEX does!), then that's a whole different story!
GadgetJax
Traveling Storyteller and Card Faker
I actually have a concept for a Wobbuffet/Crobat/Gourgeist deck. It uses Wobbuffet to shut down Abilities(Excluding Psychics, Ghosts, and Poisons.), Crobat can spread damage around constantly, here's how it works: Crobat does 30 damage to a Pokemon. Play AZ to bring it back to your hand, and when you run out of AZ cards, you can use Lysandre's Last Resort to bring them back to your deck, then play VS Seeker to get Lysandre back to your hand. Gourgeist from XY can spread damage quickly to knock out anything that's already been hit by Crobat, and Wobbuffet can finish off Weaknened Pokemon that have been hit by Crobat and Gourgeist. The deck still has issues with Supporter shutdown from Stoutland. Stoutland hasn't seen play in a while, but it could be seeing play again, as Palkia/Stoutland/Altaria is still in the format. Garbodor can also shutdown this deck pretty fast.
Mew EX/Dimensional Valley/Manectric EX and it's mega.
Dimensional Valley combos. heck just the ones with Mew EX, could make up a lot of decks. But I think Manectric/Mega Manectric which are already pretty darn good on their own, can become ridiculous with this combo. 1 energy for mass damage and energy acceleration, even in this broken format, seems too good to pass up.
Dimensional Valley combos. heck just the ones with Mew EX, could make up a lot of decks. But I think Manectric/Mega Manectric which are already pretty darn good on their own, can become ridiculous with this combo. 1 energy for mass damage and energy acceleration, even in this broken format, seems too good to pass up.
Like Furious Fist the new set is in fact real nice. The number of real new tactics is limited but the same can be said for a lot of other sets.
Gengar Ex can be an excellent deck and the costs can be cut down to two with Dimensional Valley. He does not need Virbank since he cannot hit magic numbers with it. You will be faster with a less teched out version and a second attacker in addition to Gengar Ex. Trevenant and Wobbuffet are excellent disabler walls for Gengar Ex. M Gengar Ex from the main set can also be decent as a tech later on when the format evolved.
The M Manectric Ex line also has potential. Combine it with another basic attacker such as Yveltal Ex or Mewtwo Ex. Manectric Ex is an awesome and fast attacker. Both Yveltal Ex and Mewtwo ex can benefit from the inclusion of Pokémon Tool F to ensure Manectric Ex can use Laser Assault. M Manectric Ex can be used as a smaller assistance line to accelerate. This is one of the few decks that have a built in counter to Pyroar that even assists the main theme of the deck. Now I would like to find a basic non-Ex tech to handle Safe Guard Pokémon too. In the Mewtwo built Wobbuffet would be an option, Not sure on the non-Ex basic for the Darkness variant thus far.
Florges Ex also looks nice. With a full bench that plant can hit for 120 for two energies. Fairies needed an attacker with low costs to make sure the deck does not need to expose too much of its resources. Phantom Gates also gave use means to reduce damage done to ones own Pokémon and a few tricks to heal and handle abilities locks.
Dragonite Ex decks also received a lot of nice tools. The M Manectric Ex line can be an alternative to Virizion with Battle Compressor and also resolves the problem to fit a Pyroar counter. Az and Xerosic also benefit the deck. However, Phantom Gates also gave us a Dragonite counter in the form of Wobbuffett. Besides VirGen this is one of the few decks that can still score ohkos.
Dialga Ex and Bronzong also work well combined with Cobalion Ex but I do not believe that metal decks will be tier one in the new format. Garbodor and item lock decks tend to shut abilities based acceleration down real fast.
Phantom Gates also has a lot of awesome trainers. Xerosic is a decent card and the new Pokémon Tool F cards are awesome. I believe Pokémon Tool F are the most game changing cards in this set in addition to Xerosic. Az and Battle Compressor can work well in selected decks. Not sure on Lysandre's Last Resort. I do not see the reason for the hype this card received thus far but it sure has the best FA art of the entire set.
Would like to say that Malamar Ex is decent since it is darkness and has the best non-full art art of the set imo. While Powerful Hypnosis is indeed nice and combos well with Laser Bank the attack is bad on a Pokémon Ex card. Honchcrow would be the most obvious combo with this card. If his attack costs would be C less I would see it work but as it is the deck is too slow.
Pyroar also received a small boost with the new version that can be used as a one-off tech to replace Catcher. It does not change the deck much but it sure helps. Nevertheless I feel that Phantom Gates and Furious Fist had more counters to Pyroar than cards that help this deck.
The set also gave us some Counter-Pokémon to current and past decks.
Gengar Ex can be an excellent deck and the costs can be cut down to two with Dimensional Valley. He does not need Virbank since he cannot hit magic numbers with it. You will be faster with a less teched out version and a second attacker in addition to Gengar Ex. Trevenant and Wobbuffet are excellent disabler walls for Gengar Ex. M Gengar Ex from the main set can also be decent as a tech later on when the format evolved.
The M Manectric Ex line also has potential. Combine it with another basic attacker such as Yveltal Ex or Mewtwo Ex. Manectric Ex is an awesome and fast attacker. Both Yveltal Ex and Mewtwo ex can benefit from the inclusion of Pokémon Tool F to ensure Manectric Ex can use Laser Assault. M Manectric Ex can be used as a smaller assistance line to accelerate. This is one of the few decks that have a built in counter to Pyroar that even assists the main theme of the deck. Now I would like to find a basic non-Ex tech to handle Safe Guard Pokémon too. In the Mewtwo built Wobbuffet would be an option, Not sure on the non-Ex basic for the Darkness variant thus far.
Florges Ex also looks nice. With a full bench that plant can hit for 120 for two energies. Fairies needed an attacker with low costs to make sure the deck does not need to expose too much of its resources. Phantom Gates also gave use means to reduce damage done to ones own Pokémon and a few tricks to heal and handle abilities locks.
Dragonite Ex decks also received a lot of nice tools. The M Manectric Ex line can be an alternative to Virizion with Battle Compressor and also resolves the problem to fit a Pyroar counter. Az and Xerosic also benefit the deck. However, Phantom Gates also gave us a Dragonite counter in the form of Wobbuffett. Besides VirGen this is one of the few decks that can still score ohkos.
Dialga Ex and Bronzong also work well combined with Cobalion Ex but I do not believe that metal decks will be tier one in the new format. Garbodor and item lock decks tend to shut abilities based acceleration down real fast.
Phantom Gates also has a lot of awesome trainers. Xerosic is a decent card and the new Pokémon Tool F cards are awesome. I believe Pokémon Tool F are the most game changing cards in this set in addition to Xerosic. Az and Battle Compressor can work well in selected decks. Not sure on Lysandre's Last Resort. I do not see the reason for the hype this card received thus far but it sure has the best FA art of the entire set.
Would like to say that Malamar Ex is decent since it is darkness and has the best non-full art art of the set imo. While Powerful Hypnosis is indeed nice and combos well with Laser Bank the attack is bad on a Pokémon Ex card. Honchcrow would be the most obvious combo with this card. If his attack costs would be C less I would see it work but as it is the deck is too slow.
Pyroar also received a small boost with the new version that can be used as a one-off tech to replace Catcher. It does not change the deck much but it sure helps. Nevertheless I feel that Phantom Gates and Furious Fist had more counters to Pyroar than cards that help this deck.
The set also gave us some Counter-Pokémon to current and past decks.
Dark Espeon said:
Zekrom BW would be ideal for that. The self damage from bolt strike can always be reduced Eviolite (the deck would run mostly all basics anyway).
I'm torn on Florges. The cheap damage is nice, but you'd have to limit the deck to get the full damage. Mewtwo, Keldeo, and obligatory Pyroar counters would have to be left out. (though I suppose if you really wanted, you could use the new Yanmega as a Pyroar counter since it is grass).
That's perfect. It solves two problems in one combo (the problems being Pyroar against Dragonite and a target for Manectric EX to accelerate the energy to).
I disagree: Seismatoad/Garbodor decks are a pain, but metal pokemon have a few tricks of their own. Cobalion EX can discard those DCEs with righteous edge and Skarmory EX can get rid of annoying tools. We also have a stadium that protects metal pokemon from special condition. And if all else fails, we're getting Xerosic.
I should also mention Aegislash EX, which could prove to be very annoying for the many decks that use special energy (even DCE).
You could combo it with Hydreigon (dark trance) or energy switch, but yeah I think Malamar is the worst EX of the set (though that's not saying a whole lot since the EXes in this set seem exceptional).
One more thing: That new Hydreigon that accelerates dark energy from the discard pile; I think it could be really really good, even as a stage 2. It's like Eelektric for Dark Pokemon, but potentially better since you can attach it right to the active (and you always have Dark trance Hydreigon to move it around. Once you get even one out there, you could get some explosive turns. [/quote]
Hi pokedan24,
Thanks for the feedback. I quoted some of the comments below and modified them a little to add context. The modifications are all added in paranthesis.
Considered various non-Ex basics from Thundurus, Tornados, Yveltal to Zekrom. Someone also mentioned Absol which did not come ti ind at first. Still unsure which one would be best.
Sure metal decks have several choices but not all of them can be fit into a deck. Cobalion Ex in indeed awesome but Skarmory Ex does not impress me much since he cannot discard Pokémon Tool F which will hurt metal decks a lot. Combine item and/or abilities lock decks with Pokémon Tool F and the metal deck will be real slow. I can see a deck with Dialga Ex, Cobalion Ex and Bronzong (three each) work well with 1-2 Keldeo Ex but the deck would lack a Pyroar counter and even with a combo of item and/or abilities lock and Pokémon Tools F the deck should have a hard time.
The Hydreigon line is indeed interesting but I do not think that it will be tier one since stage two decks tend to take up a lot of space which makes the deck less versatile. It also takes longer to set up the energy acceleration and transfer engine. For these reasons I feel that M Manectric Ex will be a better accelerator in Darkness decks since it takes less deck space and can also be used to attack. In addition Manectric Ex and Yveltal Ex both benefit a lot from Head Noiser. These two thus seem to have more synergy despite the need to run two different kinds of basic energies.
Another option to use Malamar Ex would be to combine him with Ninetales and Laser Bank. Ninetales has a low attack cost and a built in Lysandre this allows fpor a tech Lysandre's Last Resort to recycle lost Ninetales and Lasers. Would also include Scramble Switch in addition to Yveltal Ex as an alternate attacker. The downside of this deck is that it relies on abilities and status condition. Virizion Ex and decks that lock items and abilities would shut the deck down. It can be a fun deck but sure not tier one.
Thanks for the feedback. I quoted some of the comments below and modified them a little to add context. The modifications are all added in paranthesis.
Considered various non-Ex basics from Thundurus, Tornados, Yveltal to Zekrom. Someone also mentioned Absol which did not come ti ind at first. Still unsure which one would be best.
Sure metal decks have several choices but not all of them can be fit into a deck. Cobalion Ex in indeed awesome but Skarmory Ex does not impress me much since he cannot discard Pokémon Tool F which will hurt metal decks a lot. Combine item and/or abilities lock decks with Pokémon Tool F and the metal deck will be real slow. I can see a deck with Dialga Ex, Cobalion Ex and Bronzong (three each) work well with 1-2 Keldeo Ex but the deck would lack a Pyroar counter and even with a combo of item and/or abilities lock and Pokémon Tools F the deck should have a hard time.
The Hydreigon line is indeed interesting but I do not think that it will be tier one since stage two decks tend to take up a lot of space which makes the deck less versatile. It also takes longer to set up the energy acceleration and transfer engine. For these reasons I feel that M Manectric Ex will be a better accelerator in Darkness decks since it takes less deck space and can also be used to attack. In addition Manectric Ex and Yveltal Ex both benefit a lot from Head Noiser. These two thus seem to have more synergy despite the need to run two different kinds of basic energies.
Another option to use Malamar Ex would be to combine him with Ninetales and Laser Bank. Ninetales has a low attack cost and a built in Lysandre this allows fpor a tech Lysandre's Last Resort to recycle lost Ninetales and Lasers. Would also include Scramble Switch in addition to Yveltal Ex as an alternate attacker. The downside of this deck is that it relies on abilities and status condition. Virizion Ex and decks that lock items and abilities would shut the deck down. It can be a fun deck but sure not tier one.
I wonder if a Drifblim/Dimensional Valley deck could work.
Plasma Blast Drifblim could still attack for a DCE even against non plasma decks. Shadow Steal Promo Drifblim can use that already ridiculous attack no cost. You can also plentiful placement for a psychic if all else fails. Even Drifloon can snipe for a DCE.
Plasma Blast Drifblim could still attack for a DCE even against non plasma decks. Shadow Steal Promo Drifblim can use that already ridiculous attack no cost. You can also plentiful placement for a psychic if all else fails. Even Drifloon can snipe for a DCE.
pokedan24 said:
I like that idea a lot, with silver mirrors that deck could pretty much finish Plasma so easily they would have no idea what hit em', It hits well vs Pyroar, and you can even use Sigilyph LTR to play easy vs other decks too, blocking Ex and hitting for some nice numbers vs Lucario Ex/Mewtwo Ex (as we know this last one is making his comeback).
Not really a deck but Lysandre's Last Resort just stands out to me as a 1 card deal that basically every deck can make use of, similar to regular Lysandre. Especially decks that run special energy, Lysandre's Last Resort is a way of getting that special energy back, and one of the only ways to do so. It also comes with the benefit of resetting many strategies such as Flareon or any other discard based strategies, which I guess includes discard based energy acceleration such as bronzong or mega manectric. This card also hurts mill decks, and compliments ace-specs as a way of reusing them. This card benefits decsk that like to cycle through the deck very early, playing stuff like bicycle, rollerskates, lots of junipers etc, but also slow decks can use it to recover from having key resources shut down early and can attempt to set up again. Ultimately, cards usually offer a lot more if they have the downside of discarding, such as ultra ball and juniper, and lysandre's last resort can just help you deal with your losses very well and keep you from running out of steam while still gaining the benefits of these cards.
Should I not be as excited for Robo Substitute as I am? It has the potential to help with setting up lesser Mega-EX's.
Hyper Metal Chain decks are pretty hype, too.
I've already told myself that I should run Fairy Toolbox/Aromatiss decks for both formats. Florges and Slurpuff's current translation will definitely make me lean harder towards that.
Hyper Metal Chain decks are pretty hype, too.
I've already told myself that I should run Fairy Toolbox/Aromatiss decks for both formats. Florges and Slurpuff's current translation will definitely make me lean harder towards that.
I think Virizion decks, especially ones that run Mewtwo as a main attacker, gain quite a bit from this set. The Mew/Dimensional Valley combo allows for an emerald slash T1 if going second. You can also do up to 180 for 1 energy with Shaymin EX. And if Mewtwo is played, it can start X balling for a single energy (it will do less damage, but you'll have the option, which is what is important).
Another idea: Venomoth/Dragalge/Lasers. Venomoth can force an opponent to flip a coin to activate any trainer (supporters/items/stadiums) while lasers/Dragalge keeps them stuck active, potentially with Dusknoir to move damage around.
Another idea: Venomoth/Dragalge/Lasers. Venomoth can force an opponent to flip a coin to activate any trainer (supporters/items/stadiums) while lasers/Dragalge keeps them stuck active, potentially with Dusknoir to move damage around.
The card I'm most hyped about is battle compressor. I feel the card literally revolutionizes the game alongside vs seeker and lysandres last resort. You can now essentially play a graveyard toolbox without the worries of getting milled out. The deck I'm especially hyped about using with it is weavile/exeggcute. Battle compressor essentially makes the deck FAR more consistent and faster. Add in a some yveltals and you have these type of scenarios:
Battle compressor for 3 exeggcutes and weavile is already hitting 90 consistently really early.
Got a vs seeker and have a battle compressor? search your support of choice from your deck and vs seeker it.
Need energy accelaration? mill some dark energy and attack with yveltal.
The above is just an example of a deck than can really use battle compressor to its full potential. any deck that uses discard pile for energy acceleration will consider battle compressor for sure. Those decks will probably consider VS seeker as well because the potential of the support toolbox can provide.
Battle compressor for 3 exeggcutes and weavile is already hitting 90 consistently really early.
Got a vs seeker and have a battle compressor? search your support of choice from your deck and vs seeker it.
Need energy accelaration? mill some dark energy and attack with yveltal.
The above is just an example of a deck than can really use battle compressor to its full potential. any deck that uses discard pile for energy acceleration will consider battle compressor for sure. Those decks will probably consider VS seeker as well because the potential of the support toolbox can provide.
I doubt weavile Exeggute will be a thing once that set comes out. Target whistle is going to be such a good card for many decks. being able to target whistle some weaker ex and then lysandre it in the same turn. Target whistle the exeggcutes onto the bench and stop weavile in its tracks.
Though the decks that will get the most out of this card is Empoleon and Shiftry. Being able to pull the pokemon from the discard and fill your opponents bench is so good.
Though the decks that will get the most out of this card is Empoleon and Shiftry. Being able to pull the pokemon from the discard and fill your opponents bench is so good.
Ivy_Profen said:
Most weavile decks use scoop up cyclone as their ace spec already for the bad egg starts. I guess some super scoop ups are also needed if the whistling becomes really relevant. Getting kills on the eggs is a bit redundant though noting that weavile is 90 hp. Outside of that clutch last prize with whistle+lysandre on an egg with some weak attack like emerald slash.
The main problem for competitiveness will be garbodor and the coming wobbuffet. Making the eggs still quite unreliable fodder. This deck has almost an autoloss game vs seismitoad/garbodor. It just hurts so much if you cannot even get the eggs into your discard pile before the toad hits.
All in all I wont be using jirachi at all now in the future now that whistle will make it even more punishable!
I have tried a Bronzong/Klinklang(Plasma Steel) deck. It works well with Cobalion EX and Lucario(Plasma Storm) and also with Dialga EX. I also teched in a Skarmory EX. Also Battle Compressor to discard metal energies. Also in the Expanded Format, I tried out Klinklang from Black & White Base Set to move the energies with max potion. The expanded format deck works extremely well. What do you think?
NintendoAlian said:
You can fit Bronzong, Klinklang, and Lucario PLS into a deck? That seems really hard to find the space for without making it inconsistent. I've been thinking of making the focus on Bronzong and Dialga, with the goal of one-shotting EXs with Muscle Band and Laser. I'd also probably play Cobalion (EX and non EX) and Aegislash EX. I'm not sure if you can really fit Klinklang into the deck. I might play a thin line, like 2-2-2, but any thicker than that and I think the deck would be too inconsistent.
You dont kill the exeggcute once you target whistle, you just leave it on the bench so they cant use it. It also takes up bench space. Lowering their space for attackers and Buneary/Lopunny, that further decreases the overall strength of that deck.jellybat said:
All the players that use 1 of Exeggcute for cheaper discards for ultra ball and such will not be able to play it anymore. Things like Jirachi are also going to be huge targets that are run in a multitude of decks.