• When creating a thread in the Deck Garage, make sure that you post one deck per thread, you use the correct prefix, you have the set name/card number next to each card, you give a strategy for non-metagame decks, and give translations for all cards not available in English.

    When posting in a thread, be sure to explain all your suggestions thoroughly. Additionally, do not ask for advice in another member's thread.

Multi-Camp (ANY) Please help

A

Azurial

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Okay so this is a build i've been working on for a few days and looking for some tweeks. it sets up (as it is) with a Machamp Prime in my second turn with a full bench, but there is something still off about it.

POKEMON: 22
3-3-3 Machamp Prime
2-2-1 Reuniclus BW
2-2 Zoroark BW
2 Smeargle UD
1 Reshiram BW
1 Zekrom BW

TRAINERS: 22
3 Professor Elm's Training Method
3 Professor Oak's New theory
1 Professor Juniper
2 Pokemon Collector
2 Judge
1 Twins
3 Rare Candy
3 Pokemon communication
2 Energy Retrial
2 Energy Exchangers

ENERGY: 16
4 Double Colorless
4 Ranibow
2 Special Dark
6 Fighting

The way this deck works goes one of a few ways.
If setting up with nothing you can use to start with, smeargle uses portrait in hopes of getting a judge or collector.

if setting up with a Zoroark using Nasty Plot to search out a needed supporter for use on the following turn.

from either of those start conditions, you would go into setting up a machamp and Reuniclus at the same time as fast as possible suing candies or evolving. from there the goal is to start spreading damage across our bench, powering up wither dragon, and using Champ buster to KO everything in one hit. Against Donphan decks, this deck sets up a back up dragon quickly for easy revenge kills, most of the time before they have the chance to set up a new Donphan.

I'm not too sure how it plays against other decks as I have only tested against donphan so far
 
-1 machoke
+1 reuniclus

with rare candy you should have no trouble with the set up and you reuniclus line was a little off cause 2-2-1 line would be hard to play but 2-2-2 and you should have good chance,sorry i am having hard time explaining
 
Too many things going on.
-1 Reshiram
-1 Zekrom
-2 Energy retrieval
-1 Proffesor Elms training method (PETM)
-1 Proffesor Oaks new theory (PONT)
-2-2-1 Reuniclus
+2 Smeargle
+2 Collector
+1 Pokemon communication
+1 Fighting
+2-1-2 Serperior
 
Tyranodon said:
Too many things going on.
-1 Reshiram
-1 Zekrom
-2 Energy retrieval
-1 Proffesor Elms training method (PETM)
-1 Proffesor Oaks new theory (PONT)
-2-2-1 Reuniclus
+2 Smeargle
+2 Collector
+1 Pokemon communication
+1 Fighting
+2-1-2 Serperior
Click to expand...

i dont mean to shoot down your ideas, but the Reuniclus is the only way to make Champ buster effective and the dragons are there to take most of the damage...

as for a total of 4 smeargle - its kind of just a tech card... I dont really understand the direction of these changes...
 
4 Smeargle is a bad idea. (I'm assuming this is HGSS on) Without Unown Q or Warp energy, you'll have to waste an energy to retreat it if you don't have Machamp Prime in play, and it takes up space you could be using to make the deck more consistant.

-2-2 Zoroark (I'm not exactly sure what you're using this to counter, because it doesn't OHKO Reshiram or Zekrom, and Machamp is only weak to psychic. I don't see any great psychic decks out since Gengar's getting rotated. Nasty Plot really won't help you that much.)
-1 Duosion (I think that's the 2nd stage in Reuniclus' line? If not, take out 1 of the 2nd stage.)
-1 Smeargle (1 will do just fine. It's really not something you want to start with. The only thing you'll really be helped out by hitting off Portrait is a Pokémon collector, if your opponent gets lucky and starts with one. And this is assuming they're not going first and getting rid of it.)
-1 Professor Juniper
-2 Judge (This deck isn't really based around disruption, 2 random judges won't help that much.)
-2 Special Dark (without Zoroark, these won't be needed)
-1 Fighting (just to free up extra space)
-1 Machoke (3-2-3 is just fine with Rare Candy)

+1 Reuniclus (so this should be 2-1-2, not 2-2-1)
+1 Rare Candy
+2 Pokemon Collector (more consistant, helps your start out a lot.)
+1 Flower Shop Lady (since Palmer's gets rotated...)
+1 Pokémon Communication (4 will be more consistant, and it's better than Elm's, since it can take out ANY Pokémon, not just an evolved one. And it's not a supporter.)
+2 Ruins of Alph?? (I'm not sure how relevant this is with Gyarados getting rotated, but you should run SOME form of stadium.)
+1 Reshiram
+1 Zekrom (this way, if 1 gets killed early, you still have one left for late-game.)

The last 3 slots are up to you. You can do either:
+2 Seeker
+1 Twins

or
-1 Energy Retrival
+4 Super Scoop UP

Seeker and SSU are there to prevent your opponent from taking a prize every once in a while. Twins will be nice, since this deck runs off of Stage 2's, and it won't be hard for you to fall behind.
 
Reshiram and Zekrom are both pointless as they need there own deck to have enough room to make them effective. Smeargle isn't used as a tech it is used as a starter in the deck to help you get set up. Using it for tail rap and you are in big trouble.. The energy retrievals are going as you have a lot of energy and I assume you put them in for reshiram, Elms is going because communication is better. PONT is going because you have more than enough hand refresh with this and judge. The reuniclus is going because the line is dodgy and I think that healing damage is better than moving damage as you will run out of options soon enough. Sorry for not telling you this before I was in a rush and didn't have time to explain. I would also do this change:
-2 Special dark (use the DCE for foul play)
+1 Candy (You are running here 2 stage 2s so 3 is better)
+1 Twins ( When smeargle is KO'd you can search for any 2 things and 1 maybe prized or too hard to top deck)

Edit: You do not to need a stadium at the above poster IMO that is a waste of 2 slots and you can use zoroark to foul play any attack not just on reshiram or zekrom lol. I understand those pokemon zoroark's attack is most effective on but topic poster just needs to add some plus powers if they are keen on this tech idea.
 
Reshiram and Zekrom are not pointless. They do not need their own deck. Reshiram plops a bunch of damage on them, and they come out with a DCE to use Outrage. I'm not sure how you miss the strategy there. They're used to counter stuff that's weak to them. I understand Gyarados is rotating, but that doesn't make Zekrom any less of a threat, especially since Feraligatr Prime with {W} might be playable in HGSS on. Reshiram just laughs at anything grass (like serperior?) and steel (like Steelix PRime and Scizor Prime.) All they take is a DCE, and htey're basic. It's not like you have to evolve them or anything. Plus, if somehow they don't die, Machamp Prime's Fighting Tag basically gives them free retreat.

Smeargle is a bad idea as a starter. The whole point of using it before was because Unown Q and Warp Energy were a stable in 4/5 of every deck out there, and Smeragle gets free retreat. That doesn't happen in this deck. No Free retreat. 1 might be fine as a tech, but 4 is ridiculous. If he wants to run a starter, he'd use Cleffa.
 
The Power of Three said:
... -2-2 Zoroark (I'm not exactly sure what you're using this to counter, because it doesn't OHKO Reshiram or Zekrom, and Machamp is only weak to psychic. I don't see any great psychic decks out since Gengar's getting rotated. Nasty Plot really won't help you that much.)
-1 Duosion (I think that's the 2nd stage in Reuniclus' line? If not, take out 1 of the 2nd stage.)
-1 Smeargle (1 will do just fine. It's really not something you want to start with. The only thing you'll really be helped out by hitting off Portrait is a Pokémon collector, if your opponent gets lucky and starts with one. And this is assuming they're not going first and getting rid of it.)
-1 Professor Juniper
-2 Judge (This deck isn't really based around disruption, 2 random judges won't help that much.)
-2 Special Dark (without Zoroark, these won't be needed)
-1 Fighting (just to free up extra space)
-1 Machoke (3-2-3 is just fine with Rare Candy)

+1 Reuniclus (so this should be 2-1-2, not 2-2-1)
+1 Rare Candy
+2 Pokemon Collector (more consistant, helps your start out a lot.)
+1 Flower Shop Lady (since Palmer's gets rotated...)
+1 Pokémon Communication (4 will be more consistant, and it's better than Elm's, since it can take out ANY Pokémon, not just an evolved one. And it's not a supporter.)
+2 Ruins of Alph?? (I'm not sure how relevant this is with Gyarados getting rotated, but you should run SOME form of stadium.)
+1 Reshiram
+1 Zekrom (this way, if 1 gets killed early, you still have one left for late-game.)

The last 3 slots are up to you. You can do either:
+2 Seeker
+1 Twins

or
-1 Energy Retrival
+4 Super Scoop UP

Seeker and SSU are there to prevent your opponent from taking a prize every once in a while. Twins will be nice, since this deck runs off of Stage 2's, and it won't be hard for you to fall behind.
Click to expand...

The Zoroarks DO OHKO the dragons with a Special dark, and are really techs. They are also in there to help set up IF im behind early game, but i will play test with out. im Horrible at coin flips so SSU wont be played, but i will look at everything else and see if it helps me out.

Tyranodon said:
Reshiram and Zekrom are both pointless as they need there own deck to have enough room to make them effective. Smeargle isn't used as a tech it is used as a starter in the deck to help you get set up. Using it for tail rap and you are in big trouble.. The energy retrievals are going as you have a lot of energy and I assume you put them in for reshiram, Elms is going because communication is better. PONT is going because you have more than enough hand refresh with this and judge. The reuniclus is going because the line is dodgy and I think that healing damage is better than moving damage as you will run out of options soon enough. Sorry for not telling you this before I was in a rush and didn't have time to explain. I would also do this change:
-2 Special dark (use the DCE for foul play)
+1 Candy (You are running here 2 stage 2s so 3 is better)
+1 Twins ( When smeargle is KO'd you can search for any 2 things and 1 maybe prized or too hard to top deck)

Edit: You do not to need a stadium at the above poster IMO that is a waste of 2 slots and you can use zoroark to foul play any attack not just on reshiram or zekrom lol. I understand those pokemon zoroark's attack is most effective on but topic poster just needs to add some plus powers if they are keen on this tech idea.
Click to expand...

i'll agree that i might not need a stadium, however having such an unpredictible starter as smeargle will screw me up. It has in the past. Any one using more than 2 is taking a huge risk in not being able to retreat or attack.

I did neglect to mention that this deck is HS-On Format otherwise i would be playing Bebe's still. It takes me a while to adjust to massive changes so I've been playing HS-On only since the week after regionals. Thanks again guys for your help, im going to blooking into some of these changes and see what works best for me! Continue to comment if you want! feedback is very appreciated.
 
I assume you made a mistake when you wrote reshiram plops damage on itslef as that is zekrom and almost all competitive decks can hit for 80 dmg so before you can use this brilliant "strategy" you will be Ko'd (the exception being mewgar or lostgar). If you decided to attack with reshiram this isn't such a bad idea except assuming you manage to top deck both of your energy retrievals and 2 rainbow energy in one game you can only attack 3 times with blue flare and should they not OHKO you, you can only use outrage once before they finish you off. There is a huge amount of ifs and buts here and this deck will be very clunky and inconsistent with so many different lines and 2 stage 2 pokemon. Serperior isn't meant as an attacking pokemon so I doubt you will find often a reshiram against one of those and steelix and scizor are not too popular since reshiboar has come along. There is a trainer called switch which will give your smeargle a free retreat but I understand this isn't a staple as of yet. You would definantly need to add at least 3 stantler to the deck then so you can take out basic pokemon from your 6 lines. But you really need to cut some lines to make this deck consistent I can see it working brilliantly 1/4 matches and then 3/4 your opponent completely outspeeding you and taking six prizes before you take 1. Outrage just to let you know is not a viable attack for more than 1 turn as you will then be KO'd after your turn as you already have damage. If you do try to run this deck you absolutely must have some more recovery as all these techs are very thin and if you are playing a match up where this deck is hitting for weakness you need to recover the pokemon and the energy that goes with it.

Topic creator- I agree smeargle might not be the best in this format with juniper around. I just though that was the meant as your preffered starters considering you run it. Sorry, my bad.
 
...Stantler? What? That's what Pokémon collector is for.

The Power of Three said:
If he wanted to use a starter, he'd use Cleffa.
Click to expand...

I also like how you say the deck is "clunky and inconsistent" (for one, you spelled "inconsistant" wrong.), and then you suggest adding another stage 2 line of Pokémon in. All that is going to do is give him another pokemon that he has to get out, and make the deck even MORE inconsistant than it was before.

As for REshiram and Zekrom, why on earth would you use Blue Flare or Bolt Stroke? O_e. For one, you'd have to draw into 2 Rainbow energies, which is hard enough to do, second, with Reuniclus in play, You can hit for more damage with outrage. I'd also like to point out, it's 10 times easier to get a basic pokemon with a DCE in play than it is to fully evolve a Serperior. The whole point of Reshiram and Zekrom is to use outrage. Not Blue Flare. It's supposed to be a one time thing. For one, you pretty much automatically get a free prize card, and for two, you've just removed all the damage from your Machamp Prime, who can now come out at full health and Champ Buster away.

On the other hand, I did completely forget about Switch. Tyranodon is right in this case, adding some Switch is probably a good idea. Instead of the 2 Stadiums, add in 2 Switch.
 
I'll take a look at it - i was thinking about switch but i wasnt sure if it was going to hurt the deck or help it.
 
You can't fully use champ buster to your advantage if you are moving the damage on to a reshiram/zekrom can you? Do not complain about peoples spelling if your own is hardly perfect. Zekroms second attack is called "Bolt strike" not "Bolt stroke"! I understand your point about reshiram and zekrom but they are hardly going to sway match ups totally in your favour if you can only attack once o_O.
Azurial- I think the T/S/S lines look good so not many changes needed there IMO but I guess it is a matter of preference but I still think you should probably try and concentrate on DonChamp rather than all these techs. With a bit of playtesting though you should be able to see which lines are good in this deck and which lines aren't quite working so well. So I recommend you just test the deck against all decks that are expected to be decent next format - DonChamp, Reshiboar, Magneboar, Zekrom donk, MewGar, T-tar toolbox and the stage 1 threats (Cinccino, Yanmega and Zoroark).
 
Tyranodon said:
You can't fully use champ buster to your advantage if you are moving the damage on to a reshiram/zekrom can you?Do not complain about peoples spelling if your own is hardly perfect. Zekroms second attack is called "Bolt strike" not "Bolt stroke"! I understand your point about reshiram and zekrom but they are hardly going to sway match ups totally in your favour if you can only attack once o_O.
Azurial- I think the T/S/S lines look good so not many changes needed there IMO but I guess it is a matter of preference but I still think you should probably try and concentrate on DonChamp rather than all these techs. With a bit of playtesting though you should be able to see which lines are good in this deck and which lines aren't quite working so well. So I recommend you just test the deck against all decks that are expected to be decent next format - DonChamp, Reshiboar, Magneboar, Zekrom donk, MewGar, T-tar toolbox and the stage 1 threats (Cinccino, Yanmega and Zoroark).
Click to expand...

Point taken on spelling. <_<

I fail to see how serperior is any better than Reshiram/Zekrom. You said that with Reshiram/Zekrom, you can't use Champ Buster to your full advantage. Well if Serperior just removes all the damage, it isn't going to help you any more than those two will.

I don't see anything wrong with dropping the 2-2 Zoroark for a 2-2 Donphan Prime line. Out of the decks listed above, yanmega is probably the biggest threat, since it resists you. Zekrom will help the matchup since Yanmega is weak to it, but you might want to look something else. I'm not sure, however since I haven't tested much against Yanmega.
 
I've played against yanmega and its usually no problem for me seeing as i keep my hand too large for the opposition the only problem i run into is judge but then again that helps me out more often than it hurts me. any one see Pokemon Reversal as a tech here?

Tyranodon said:
You can't fully use champ buster to your advantage if you are moving the damage on to a reshiram/zekrom can you? Do not complain about peoples spelling if your own is hardly perfect. Zekroms second attack is called "Bolt strike" not "Bolt stroke"! I understand your point about reshiram and zekrom but they are hardly going to sway match ups totally in your favour if you can only attack once o_O.

Azurial- I think the T/S/S lines look good so not many changes needed there IMO but I guess it is a matter of preference but I still think you should probably try and concentrate on DonChamp rather than all these techs. With a bit of playtesting though you should be able to see which lines are good in this deck and which lines aren't quite working so well. So I recommend you just test the deck against all decks that are expected to be decent next format - DonChamp, Reshiboar, Magneboar, Zekrom donk, MewGar, T-tar toolbox and the stage 1 threats (Cinccino, Yanmega and Zoroark).
Click to expand...

i HATE bickering...

point 1) Champ Buster 100 +: This attack does 100 + 10 for each pokemon with a damage counter on it on your bench. Most of the time HUGE ammounts of damage will be put on Machamp, then that damage gets filtered and the bulk of it placed on a Dragon.

Point 2) the dragons DO sway matchups - just try them out.

point 3) "Bolt Stroke" is more of mis-read than a mis-spell.

point 4) This Deck plays WAY faster than Donphan or Donchamp. simply because of 1 main attack and not 2. Donphan has become a pointless tech for Machamp seeing as Reuniclus doesnt create extra damage.

Point 5) MagneBoar is weak against fighitng. As is TTar, Zekrom, Chinccino, and Zoroark.

Point 6) there are no toolboxes right now and any one playing an SP toolbox looses to a Dragon tech. - thats takes us back to the Damage Swap ability of Reuniclus
 
The power of three- I meant the point about serperior if Azurial wanted to tank with Machamp prime but this seems not to be what he wants to do so my bad.
Azurial - Pokemon reversal would be decent into the deck but as it is flippy you may wish to then add junk arms to go with it, this may take up too much space in your deck but you could try it I guess. May I just ask how do the dragons make match ups a lot easier for you if they only give you 1 prize and that is assuming they have less than 140 hp or your hitting for weakness. A real tech that helps match ups a lot should be able to take at least half your prizes against a unfavourable match up. It is a bold statement to say your Donphan paired with Machamp is pointless. I also wouldn't call your deck way speedier than DonChamp when you have to set up a stage 2 with 3 energy on it aswell as another stage 2 on your bench compared to them just having to set up a stage 2 with 2 energy (DCE + Fighting) and a stage 1 with an energy. Also I wouldn't go into talking about spelling yourself when you spelt Cinccino "Chinccino". Just because a match up is favourable does not mean you don't need to test against that match up and Zekrom being weak to fighting isn't amazing as if they get set up T1 weakness won't matter as you will be donked. It is only in longer games weakness will matter and zekrom almost always loses this type of game anyway (aswell as often running a yanmega tech). Yes there are toolboxs and SP is going out of the format but if you are taking this to a battle roads if anyone does bring a SP toolbox they will almost certainly of found a reshiram counter. Dark toolbox is a very legit deck before you go bashing it and can be very effective with its 4 standard lines (Zoroark, Umbreon, T-tar and Mandibuzz). Aswell as this I would call your own deck a toolbox with all the different pokemon lines so yes there are toolboxes and they can work well. I am going to stop posting in this topic as my objective with my first post was to help you out but it seems I am more annoying you than helping you so I will stop now.
 
^OK, I see what you meant by Serperior now. That makes more sense then. :p

If you don't want to use Pokémon Reversal, you could use Pokémon Catcher. I know they aren't released yet, but when they do come out, they don't require a flip but do the same exact thing.
 
catcher would be better as it is Gust of Wind reprinted, but they may cut it out of our red collection pack like they did for Black/White - i figure its an okay card to use as Luxray is going away and it saves on having to lock a pokemon active to set it up
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top