Metagame Matchup Discussion Thread

Glaceon said:
With Durant you discard my energy. I will find a way to get my Zekrom up and running turn 2/3, and you need 9 turns to win. I can take 6 prizes in 6 turns, and through Switch and discarding the energies I attach to the Eels with Dynamotor, everything on my bench will have one energy. If they are Catcher'd, I attach, retreat, and Dynamotor some energy back on.
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But, you have very limited draw, so you won't always be able to get the cards you need. Durant will be able to get rid of the energies on your active and you will have nothing. Have you tested this matchup, because it seems unfavorable to Eels.
 
I have tested this matchup on both sides. I have limited draw, but since my deck is consistent, I should be able to get out what I need. You can get rid of my active's energy, but you won't necessarily. You will have to use 3 just to have a chance at discarding energy, and then you'll only have one left., and there still isn't a guarantee that you will discard at least two energy. It may seem unfavorable to Eels, but it isn't
 
petertclo said:
Not really.
I have lost exactly 0 times playing MTC against Reshiboar EX. It's about 3 turns slower, the Reshi can't 1-hit Mewtwo (Eviolite anyone) and Mewtwo can just bomb Reshiram dead with 5 energy attached (not hard given the slow-ness of Reshiboar EX)

I'd say 30-70 at the very least
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IMO, that matchup is at least 60-40, in Reshirams favor. Reshiram OHKOs everything on your side of the field, and with your own Mewtwos you can easily just get rid of theirs. Its not too hard a matchup for the Reshiram. MTC can't get rid of Emboar easily without Catchering it up twice and attacking it twice with Hurricane, during which Reshiram would have taken two prizes from those Tornaduses (Tornadi?). Shaymin EX can be a problem, but if dealt with correctly it is easy.
 
alexmf2 said:
IMO, that matchup is at least 60-40, in Reshirams favor. Reshiram OHKOs everything on your side of the field, and with your own Mewtwos you can easily just get rid of theirs. Its not too hard a matchup for the Reshiram. MTC can't get rid of Emboar easily without Catchering it up twice and attacking it twice with Hurricane, during which Reshiram would have taken two prizes from those Tornaduses (Tornadi?). Shaymin EX can be a problem, but if dealt with correctly it is easy.
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Maybe 55-45. Even though ReshEXBoar has problems setting up, it can bench Mewtwo, attach to energy, and ko you, which is really great in this matchup.
 
Glaceon said:
I have tested this matchup on both sides. I have limited draw, but since my deck is consistent, I should be able to get out what I need. You can get rid of my active's energy, but you won't necessarily. You will have to use 3 just to have a chance at discarding energy, and then you'll only have one left., and there still isn't a guarantee that you will discard at least two energy. It may seem unfavorable to Eels, but it isn't
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Glaceon said:
Maybe 55-45. Even though ReshEXBoar has problems setting up, it can bench Mewtwo, attach to energy, and ko you, which is really great in this matchup.
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Okay, I'll update these.
 
alexmf2 said:
IMO, that matchup is at least 60-40, in Reshirams favor. Reshiram OHKOs everything on your side of the field, and with your own Mewtwos you can easily just get rid of theirs. Its not too hard a matchup for the Reshiram. MTC can't get rid of Emboar easily without Catchering it up twice and attacking it twice with Hurricane, during which Reshiram would have taken two prizes from those Tornaduses (Tornadi?). Shaymin EX can be a problem, but if dealt with correctly it is easy.
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Well it starts with a 2-3 prize disadvantage, and then there's Mewtwo to deal with, so I don't see how that can be favourable.
 
petertclo said:
Well it starts with a 2-3 prize disadvantage, and then there's Mewtwo to deal with, so I don't see how that can be favourable.
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it really depends on the reshi[ex]boar build.

anyone with common sense will realize that Reshiram[EX] alone in Reshi[EX]boar will not be enough to win you games. It needs a partner to deal with other cards especially Mewtwo[EX].

some will have reshiram bw to deal with mewtwo ex. since reshiram bw discards 2 of its energy after blue flare it will only have 1 energy attached to it so the mewtwo ex will need 6 energies attached to it to ohko the reshiram bw.

some will simply have mewtwo[ex] to counter the mewtwo[ex]. remember abiliboar can easily load up energy to mewtwo[ex].

others may surprise you with darmanitan and roll two heads to ohko your mewtwo[ex]

some will have a horrible build that's no match to mewtwo[ex] ha ha ha ha ha
 
After testing with MTC:

MTC finds it hard to keep up with the Reshirams after the Typhlosions get going, but MTC has an advantage in that it can catcher and steal prizes before that happens.
Regigigas EX can tank Reshiram and basically guarantee 2 prizes.
 
Durant vs. Eels/MEZ Setting up Eel in this matchup is a really bad idea, also you have Durant vs. MEZ as a 70-40 matchup....

6 Corners vs. Eels. In my testing this is far in Eels favor so long as you use a quick Zekrom EX/Magnezone to kill anything dangerous (Terrakion, Mewtwo with a bunch of energy, that's about it) then simply finish up with Zekrom (EX) or Thundurus.

6 Corners vs. Chandeplume. You state that if Chandeplume gets a decent hand and stays aware of Absol, they should take the game. That seems like it should be advantageous for Chandeplume and not 6 Corners, no?

6 Corners vs. MEZ Why in the world would you attack with Mewtwo primarily? Attack with Zekrom EX primarily to get OHKOs, Catcher anything with energy on it, use your Mewtwo against opponent Mewtwo and that's it. I feel its in favor of MEZ if you do that but I'd need to test it more.

Reshiboar EX vs. Tyram I feel this is advantageous for Reshiboar EX because first of all, its faster, needing only 1 stage 2, and secondly, its less weak to Catcher, being able to OHKO the opponent's stage 2s while avoiding the OHKOs on your own and using Switch.

Reshiboar EX vs. Chandeplume Personally, I wouldn't even set up Emboar unless the opponent isn't running energy. Just charge up a single Reshiram EX and take OHKOs with it, set up another if the first one gets close to dying/they can Eerie Light soon, and Chandeplume should suffer from the OHKOs. Not sure about the actual odds though due to lack of testing.

Eels vs. Chandeplume In my testing, this is pretty much a dead 50-50 without ND. I would think Zekrom EX would make the matchup advantageous if anything since it can take OHKOs without Lost Zoning energy.

Missing a number for MTC vs. Chandeplume.

I haven't tested all of the other matchups so I'm not sure how to critique them.
 
Setting up Eel is actually really smart...

You set up Eels, get energy on them, and if your active is ko'd you can send up a baby, use both Eels, and set up another attacker.
 
Catcher KO Rotom too. If you set up 2 attackers, You should be able to get around the Rotom+Rainbow+Switch drop.
 
It is hard to set up two attackers with Crushing Hammer, which is why Eels are useful.
 
Dark Void said:
Durant vs. Eels/MEZ Setting up Eel in this matchup is a really bad idea, also you have Durant vs. MEZ as a 70-40 matchup....
Lol, Glaceon explained why setting up Eel is a good idea

6 Corners vs. Eels. In my testing this is far in Eels favor so long as you use a quick Zekrom EX/Magnezone to kill anything dangerous (Terrakion, Mewtwo with a bunch of energy, that's about it) then simply finish up with Zekrom (EX) or Thundurus.
They can easily take easy KOs and slow down your set up. They make a quick Zekrom really hard

6 Corners vs. Chandeplume. You state that if Chandeplume gets a decent hand and stays aware of Absol, they should take the game. That seems like it should be advantageous for Chandeplume and not 6 Corners, no?
It's actually pretty even because 6 Corners can constantly damage Chandelures and waste Blisseys. They can also Kyurem Spread to be really annoying

6 Corners vs. MEZ Why in the world would you attack with Mewtwo primarily? Attack with Zekrom EX primarily to get OHKOs, Catcher anything with energy on it, use your Mewtwo against opponent Mewtwo and that's it. I feel its in favor of MEZ if you do that but I'd need to test it more.
But, Terrakion schools Zekrom EX. Mewtwo can also easily take out their attackers with energies, which is your main objective.

Reshiboar EX vs. Tyram I feel this is advantageous for Reshiboar EX because first of all, its faster, needing only 1 stage 2, and secondly, its less weak to Catcher, being able to OHKO the opponent's stage 2s while avoiding the OHKOs on your own and using Switch.
But, Tyram is much faster and can consistently get out Typhlosions. Tyram will constantly get 2 or OHKOs on EXs and will win much faster.

Reshiboar EX vs. Chandeplume Personally, I wouldn't even set up Emboar unless the opponent isn't running energy. Just charge up a single Reshiram EX and take OHKOs with it, set up another if the first one gets close to dying/they can Eerie Light soon, and Chandeplume should suffer from the OHKOs. Not sure about the actual odds though due to lack of testing.
But this is hard, especially because they can use an attacker (Which good ChandyPlume decks play) to easily KO Reshiram EX) You will be forced to set up Emboar to set up quicker

Eels vs. Chandeplume In my testing, this is pretty much a dead 50-50 without ND. I would think Zekrom EX would make the matchup advantageous if anything since it can take OHKOs without Lost Zoning energy.
I guess, but if ChandyPlume plays Aipom the game is pretty much over already

Missing a number for MTC vs. Chandeplume.
Will fix that

I haven't tested all of the other matchups so I'm not sure how to critique them.
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Replies in Bold
 
6 Corners vs. Eels. In my testing this is far in Eels favor so long as you use a quick Zekrom EX/Magnezone to kill anything dangerous (Terrakion, Mewtwo with a bunch of energy, that's about it) then simply finish up with Zekrom (EX) or Thundurus.
They can easily take easy KOs and slow down your set up. They make a quick Zekrom really hard
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Not really. Its turn 4 usually, sometimes turn 3, before they can start Land Crushing, longer before X-Ball gets to the point where it OHKOs stuff, By that point a consistent list will usually be able to set up a Magnezone/Zekrom EX.

6 Corners vs. Chandeplume. You state that if Chandeplume gets a decent hand and stays aware of Absol, they should take the game. That seems like it should be advantageous for Chandeplume and not 6 Corners, no?
It's actually pretty even because 6 Corners can constantly damage Chandelures and waste Blisseys. They can also Kyurem Spread to be really annoying
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In that case the description should reflect that. I'm not saying the matchup is favorable for one side of the other, but that your description implies that Chandeplume would usually win, which isn't the case in the odds.

6 Corners vs. MEZ Why in the world would you attack with Mewtwo primarily? Attack with Zekrom EX primarily to get OHKOs, Catcher anything with energy on it, use your Mewtwo against opponent Mewtwo and that's it. I feel its in favor of MEZ if you do that but I'd need to test it more.
But, Terrakion schools Zekrom EX. Mewtwo can also easily take out their attackers with energies, which is your main objective.
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With no energy acceleration except Shaymin 6 Corners finds itself having trouble setting up Terrakion when anything with energy is Catcher+OHKOed. In fact, 6 Corners has trouble with OHKOs in general since almost all of its attackers need 3 energy to deal enough damage.

Reshiboar EX vs. Tyram I feel this is advantageous for Reshiboar EX because first of all, its faster, needing only 1 stage 2, and secondly, its less weak to Catcher, being able to OHKO the opponent's stage 2s while avoiding the OHKOs on your own and using Switch.
But, Tyram is much faster and can consistently get out Typhlosions. Tyram will constantly get 2 or OHKOs on EXs and will win much faster.
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lolwut. How in the world can setting up 2 Stage 2s that may not be able to actually accelerate right away faster than 1 Stage 2? That makes no sense whatsoever. Also, should all of the energy accelerators die, Reshiram EX can still consistently get KOs on its own while Reshiram attacks once and can't attack again. Also, Reshiboar can use SSU to deny Tyram prizes and win the prize exchange. When facing off, Reshiboar EX outclasses Tyram in every way possible.

Reshiboar EX vs. Chandeplume Personally, I wouldn't even set up Emboar unless the opponent isn't running energy. Just charge up a single Reshiram EX and take OHKOs with it, set up another if the first one gets close to dying/they can Eerie Light soon, and Chandeplume should suffer from the OHKOs. Not sure about the actual odds though due to lack of testing.
But this is hard, especially because they can use an attacker (Which good ChandyPlume decks play) to easily KO Reshiram EX) You will be forced to set up Emboar to set up quicker
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It might just be me, but when I tried to build Chandeplume I could barely find room to fit even a Jirachi in, which uses the same energy as Chandelure. What attacker do Chandeplume decks use that can OHKO a Reshiram EX?
 
Dark Void said:
lolwut. How in the world can setting up 2 Stage 2s that may not be able to actually accelerate right away faster than 1 Stage 2? That makes no sense whatsoever. Also, should all of the energy accelerators die, Reshiram EX can still consistently get KOs on its own while Reshiram attacks once and can't attack again. Also, Reshiboar can use SSU to deny Tyram prizes and win the prize exchange. When facing off, Reshiboar EX outclasses Tyram in every way possible.
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I can 100% confirm this.

Dark Void said:
It might just be me, but when I tried to build Chandeplume I could barely find room to fit even a Jirachi in, which uses the same energy as Chandelure. What attacker do Chandeplume decks use that can OHKO a Reshiram EX?
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I can confirm this as well, but the Chandys I tested against didn't play Jirachi. Even if they did, it wouldn't really have made a difference.
 
I would just like to point out that iisnumber 12 actually did give the advantage to reshiboar EX.
 
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